3 Weeks WASTED

The OP has a point. I don't consider the AI scanning routines to be 'fair' or 'realistic' - I've been scanned by AI and failed passenger mission for a) having one spawn right behind me when dogfighting another NPC with 'report crimes against me' off, and b) within 2 seconds of take off from a planetary base. Yes, both were bad luck due to RNG, and I moved on with my life, but still...

With a) if we had AI system traffic that were persistent across both supercuise and normal space, perhaps I could have spotted a police patrol and known them to be in the area prior to the interdiction (or at least allowing some stealth gameplay to evade in supercruise).

With b) having the AI patrol a few more kilometers out, or in supercruise around the planet, rather than directly at the station might help. I'd like to 'thread the gauntlet' against patrols whilst still in supercruise as part of stealth gameplay, with those patrols near stations only paying real attention to people coming in too fast, with weapons out, or deliberately trying not to be seen (e.g. the area around an intermittent contact should be checked out). If you are in an airport, what's more likely to draw attention to yourself and get you stopped? Walking through security as if you had nothing to hide? Or shooting at security, running through security or trying to hide suspiciously? 'Cus Elite seems to encourage the latter behaviour for 'smuggling'. :D

I'd also have chaff and/or ECM throw off scans for a short period. And more shielded cargo/passenger cabins (with expense, reduced capacity, and additional fines if caught in possession of), to assist smuggling gameplay.

Regarding criminal passengers, I'd like to see more differentiation between those criminals that will get you killed, and those that will just get you fined. Regarding any passengers - having them abandon ship when you're 7000ly from a station (e.g. due to "hull" damage - which I've had from brushing a cargo pod whist scooping) is also pretty silly. Regarding instant 'pass/fail' of missions, well OK, but some more warning (e.g. reduce the reward drastically first) would be nice, plus opportunities to 'recoup' standing with the passenger (e.g. why is a secretive passenger secretive? Presumably because they don't want people to know where they are/have been and act on that. Therefore the longer I go without being scanned, the more uncertainty there is in the NPCs location, so they should become a bit happier as time goes on).

As it stands, I'm halfway to Colonia with a 47 million cr passenger, who'll probably be off at the next station. Anacondas aren't that stealthy. ;)
 
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The OP has a point. I don't consider the AI scanning routines to be 'fair' or 'realistic' - I've been scanned by AI and failed passenger mission for a) having one spawn right behind me when dogfighting another NPC with 'report crimes against me' off, and b) within 2 seconds of take off from a planetary base. Yes, both were bad luck due to RNG, and I moved on with my life, but still...

With a) if we had AI system traffic that were persistent across both supercuise and normal space, perhaps I could have spotted a police patrol and known them to be in the area prior to the interdiction (or at least allowing some stealth gameplay to evade in supercruise).

With b) having the AI patrol a few more kilometers out, or in supercruise around the planet, rather than directly at the station might help. I'd like to 'thread the gauntlet' against patrols whilst still in supercruise as part of stealth gameplay, with those patrols near stations only paying real attention to people coming in too fast, with weapons out, or deliberately trying not to be seen (e.g. the area around an intermittent contact should be checked out).

I'd also have chaff and/or ECM throw off scans for a short period. Regarding criminal passengers, I'd like to see more differentiation between those criminals that will get you killed, and those that will just get you fined. Regarding any passengers - having them abandon ship when you're 7000ly from a station (e.g. due to "hull" damage - which I've had from brushing a cargo pod whist scooping) is also pretty silly. Regarding instant 'pass/fail' of missions, well OK, but some more warning (e.g. reduce the reward drastically first) would be nice, plus opportunities to 'recoup' standing with the passenger (e.g. why is a secretive passenger secretive? Presumably because they don't want people to know where they are/have been and act on that. Therefore the longer I go without being scanned, the more uncertainty there is in the NPCs location, so they should become a bit happier as time goes on).

As it stands, I'm halfway to Colonia with a 47 million cr passenger, who'll probably be off at the next station. Anacondas aren't that stealthy. ;)

Chaff and ECM do not interrupt ship scans.
 
If only missions who require to evade scans said so in the mission description, so that those who just cannot bear not to win every time could avoid them and choose other missions instead...
 
That would mean anyone could casually smuggle hundreds of tons of slaves in T9s with zero risk.

Depends on the size of the change and balancing. How long a scan takes, and the range that the scan can occur are, or could be used as, balancing variables. Likewise size of hull/mass/produced heat/aspect of scanner to scannee, and closure rates, could be used in any calculations as well. Things don't have to be all or nothing. ;)
 
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In that case might as well remove scans entirely, if chaff would affect them...

No. As I said to Sleutelbos, the modelling of what goes on in a scan could just be more complex. Any modern military flight sim worth it's salt will have some form of model of radar, radar-cross sections and countermeasures. Having chaff, flares and ECM in Falcon 4 hasn't completely stopped me getting AA-10s up the tailpipe from SU-27s. Countermeasures makes it more difficult for the lock (scan) to be achieved, but not impossible. Likewise a broken lock can be re-acquired. (Of course, more modelling would burn up more CPU cycles, and there may not be the time budget for it...)

*Edit* Another alternative might be the (semi-random) presence of very specific, and visible to the player, larger 'scanning ships' at ports. E.g. if you see a group of Eagles or Vipers loitering around then you should be fine, but if there's also a police Anaconda with 'AWACS' gear visibly present in the instance, be much careful, or try again later.
 
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Depends on the size of the change and balancing. How long a scan takes, and the range that the scan can occur are, or could be used as, balancing variables. Likewise size of hull/mass/produced heat/aspect of scanner to scannee, and closure rates, could be used in any calculations as well. Things don't have to be all or nothing. ;)

It already is pretty much super-easy. I have no idea how you can make it any easier without it being insta-win. It would require a complete rewrite of how scanning works.
 
Passengers are way to over demanding to make me want to do it. Can you imagine that happening in real life? Hey, I want my money back for this flight halfway around the world because I stubbed my big toe getting off the plane. :)
 
No. As I said to Sleutelbos, the modelling of what goes on in a scan could just be more complex. Any modern military flight sim worth it's salt will have some form of model of radar, radar-cross sections and countermeasures. Having chaff, flares and ECM in Falcon 4 hasn't completely stopped me getting AA-10s up the tailpipe from SU-27s. Countermeasures makes it more difficult for the lock (scan) to be achieved, but not impossible. Likewise a broken lock can be re-acquired.

Yeah, but you can dock already in 15s or so. A scan takes 10 seconds. That means they already have less than five seconds to detect you, prioritise you and get within range. Theres not a lot of room there...
 
This is the real Problem. Players have no other means to evade scans from NPCs besides shooting and getting out of range/ sight.

Larger ships, slower ships, more heat , all of these things make it much more difficult to avoid being scanned. Smaller heat signature means you don't show up as well on their radar and sensors cannot get a lock. Silent running pretty much makes it so that a ship cannot get a sensor lock on you without being less than 1km away or until your heat builds up. Deploying a heatsink while silent running makes it so that the sensors usually lock to the heatsink instead of the ship. Before even taking any missions where scanning is a problem, you should play around with the mechanics to learn how to deal with them. Disabling weapons, shields, shield boosters, non-essential components, ect also decreases your heat signature and how quickly your ship gains heat while running silently. Even just momentarily triggering silent running can cause the sensor lock to break and the scan to restart.

There are plenty of ways to deal with it.
 
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No. As I said to Sleutelbos, the modelling of what goes on in a scan could just be more complex. Any modern military flight sim worth it's salt will have some form of model of radar, radar-cross sections and countermeasures. Having chaff, flares and ECM in Falcon 4 hasn't completely stopped me getting AA-10s up the tailpipe from SU-27s. Countermeasures makes it more difficult for the lock (scan) to be achieved, but not impossible. Likewise a broken lock can be re-acquired.

If you make it just a tiny more difficult it would be impossible to be scanned.

Vast majority of scan attempts occur in one of 3 scenarios;

1 - Last few seconds before arriving at the mailslot
2 - When boosting away from the station waiting to break mass lock.
3 - During interdiction while boosting away and waiting for FSD.

In all these situations the scan window will only last very few seconds. If you make it easier and add even more seconds on top, it would be impossible to be scanned, even on the least worthy scan-avoiding ship you could possibly fly.

The game already provides plenty of tools to minimize the scan risk to almost 0. If people aren't willing to use them, there are plenty of missions which don't require to avoid scans. Let's not ruin the very little excitement this game still has, just so some people can always "win" in every single task without having to care.
 
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It already is pretty much super-easy. I have no idea how you can make it any easier without it being insta-win. It would require a complete rewrite of how scanning works.

It's not about making things 'easier', or 'instant win', just potentially more nuanced, less 'binary' and less dependent on RNGeesus spawning. You could increase the base chance of being scanned by tinkering with range and time to scan in the absence of countermeasures, for example. I'll agree that it would potentially require some reworking of scanning, and that is something FDev seem reluctant to tinker with given the network code (as evidenced by Sandro's comments, and seeming reluctance, about modding of scanners on one of the streams).
 
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Yeah, but you can dock already in 15s or so. A scan takes 10 seconds. That means they already have less than five seconds to detect you, prioritise you and get within range. Theres not a lot of room there...

on large stations, scans will be cut off and won't happen if you are inside the mailslot. just a matter of getting there fast enough.
 
If you make it just a tiny more difficult it would be impossible to be scanned.

Vast majority of scan attempts occur in one of 3 scenarios;

1 - Last few seconds before arriving at the mailslot
2 - When boosting away from the station waiting to break mass lock.
3 - During interdiction while boosting away and waiting for FSD.

And all of those are artificial limitations that can be changed (e.g. mass lock range, FSD cooldown timer duration). One of the main complaints you see against the game is the lack of gameplay other than 'boost->jump->boost-jump' whilst travelling, or people 'instantly' escaping interdictions. Tweaking time spent in normal space to allow more time for interactions, compensated by better gameplay/more tools for those interactions to occur, is a good idea, no?

The game already provides plenty of tools to minimize the scan risk to almost 0. If people aren't willing to use them, there are plenty of missions which don't require to avoid scans. Let's not ruin the very little excitement this game still has, just so some people can always "win" without having to care.

In my opinion, no it doesn't. The options it provides are a bit bizarre, and somewhat arbitrary because they rely on such short periods of time (and ranges) to occur - they become pass/fail in many situations, through no fault of the player. The issue IMHO really is, Elite is a pseudo-flight sim, without most of a flight sim's complexities, and time for those complexities to unfold.

Also, see my comments about moving some of this scanning and stealth gameplay into supercruise, as well as in normal space.
 
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In my opinion, no it doesn't. The options it provides are a bit bizarre, and somewhat arbitrary because they rely on such short periods of time (and ranges) to occur - they become pass/fail in many situations, through no fault of the player. The issue IMHO really is, Elite is a pseudo-flight sim, without most of a flight sim's complexities, and time for those complexities to unfold.
Your problem stems from not understanding the mechanics. Not that the options to deal with them being arbitrary or bizarre. That little heat graph on the side isn't just there to look pretty. It is a more nuanced aspect that you kinda have to spend the time looking at and researching, but it is still very much something that makes sense. People who do smuggling, do illegal activities, run tons of slaves, you learn to read this gauge to know how risky your approach to a station might be. You also learn what stations you are more likely to get scanned at.
 
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The game already provides plenty of tools to minimize the scan risk to almost 0. If people aren't willing to use them, there are plenty of missions which don't require to avoid scans. Let's not ruin the very little excitement this game still has, just so some people can always "win" without having to care.
Which is perfectly fine for short range smuggling type missions. They absolutely should have the "anti scan" requirement.
But after 187 jumps, with your eyes are bleeding, hands numb, and your keyboard starting to short-circuit from excessive drool. Why the heck do we need to avoid a stupid scan at that point? I see no excitement there, just relief it's over.
It's pointless, and really doesn't make sense why a scientist or tourist would be so worried about a simple ship scan to begin with.
 
I haven't taken a passenger mission yet. Can we jettison these passengers into the void after they decide not to pay?
 
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