3 Weeks WASTED

[Burlsol]

It's pointless, and really doesn't make sense why a scientist or tourist would be so worried about a simple ship scan to begin with.

Because they're criminals.
Because they're doing research that the current system power is not happy about.
Because they have enemies and don't want their movements being recorded.

The assumption with these long distance sight seeing missions is that these are systems that are being scouted by scientists or company employees for one faction or another. Having opposing factions know of these plans could have the problem of ruining those plans of bringing risk to members of that faction. Secrecy is important and is the whole reason why you're being paid millions for the journey.

 

[Zeeman]

Sorry for gour misfortune, OP.

A bit late for you, but speed docki g is the way to go. Silent running does little in my experience, however, I have yet to be scanned if I hot dock.

That's a record since gamma, by the way. My smuggling Asp now does over 500, though it's no issue to even hot dock my under powered Anaconda and avoid scans as things ard.

Z...

 

[Lobstris]

Your problem stems from not understanding the mechanics. Not that the options to deal with them being arbitrary or bizarre. That little heat graph on the side isn't just there to look pretty. It is a more nuanced aspect that you kinda have to spend the time looking at and researching, but it is still very much something that makes sense.

Firstly, I'm aware of the heat mechanics, silent running, heat sinks et al. (they felt like they had much bigger effect back in the Alphas/Beta (but that's probably/possibly just my perception), and IR signature is also an important element in modern flight simming ) I'm trying to suggest additions. And, as I keep on saying, these things can be tweaked to make them more, or less, effective. As to the comment about the 'little heat graph' - making it more prominent (e.g. increasing size of the y-axis to improve identification of heat signature and emphasise its importance, would help. Hell, let's have a page on one of the side panels for ship emission signature for all EM spectra :.) )

Secondly, I still maintain that, having a system that promotes high-speed dangerous flying at large, well-defended stations as the best way to not draw attention to yourself, is a bizarre way to 'smuggle' or avoid attention. And anything involving RNG spawning is going to be 'arbitrary' to some extent.

 

[B1rdy]

Your problem stems from not understanding the mechanics. Not that the options to deal with them being arbitrary or bizarre. That little heat graph on the side isn't just there to look pretty. It is a more nuanced aspect that you kinda have to spend the time looking at and researching, but it is still very much something that makes sense. People who do smuggling, do illegal activities, run tons of slaves, you learn to read this gauge to know how risky your approach to a station might be. You also learn what stations you are more likely to get scanned at.

But do we really know our heat signature affects NPCs? Does Chaff work against NPC-scans?

 

[askavir]

Which is perfectly fine for short range smuggling type missions. They absolutely should have the "anti scan" requirement.
But after 187 jumps, with your eyes are bleeding, hands numb, and your keyboard starting to short-circuit from excessive drool. Why the heck do we need to avoid a stupid scan at that point? I see no excitement there, just relief it's over.
It's pointless, and really doesn't make sense why a scientist or tourist would be so worried about a simple ship scan to begin with.

The scientist could be on some top secret project from the government and not want to alert other factions to what he's doing. But that's the least important.

Aren't you told before taking a mission if it requires avoiding scans or not? Aren't players willingly and knowingly taking those missions knowing the "risk"?

And how many times during said long travel mission do you actually have to worry about scans? 2? Departure and arrival?

Are you not allowed to select whatever ship/gear do you find more appropriate and efficient to use for accomplishing such missions?

After those 187 jumps, you just have to focus for the few seconds it takes to enter a station. Is that really that much? I mean, "you had one job... ONE JOB".

So, you can choose to use a ship that makes scan avoiding even easier, you have an enormous time limit, the game even gives the first couple of scans for free before the passenger gets really angry, you only need to care about being scanned for a tiny fraction of the mission duration, and somehow its still "too hard", and all those millions should just be given away to the player because "he showed up"?..

 

[Coik]

So question about the heat sink trick that a few people mentioned: Do you have to deploy the sink preemptively (before the scan begins), or can you do it in response to a scan starting in order to break it?

From some of the commentary, I would guess it's the former, but would like to be sure.

 

[askavir]

Does Chaff work against NPC-scans?

No it doesn't.

 

[Burlsol]

Firstly, I'm aware of the heat mechanics, silent running, heat sinks et al. (they felt like they had much bigger effect back in the Alphas/Beta (but that's probably/possibly just my perception), and IR signature is also an important element in modern flight simming ) I'm trying to suggest additions. And, as I keep on saying, these things can be tweaked to make them more, or less, effective. As to the comment about the 'little heat graph' - making it more prominent (e.g. increasing size of the y-axis to improve identification of heat signature and emphasise its importance, would help. Hell, let's have a page on one of the side panels for ship emission signature for all EM spectra :.) )

Additions aren't needed. Smuggling and doing illegal activities should be something that people need to learn how to do and learn from their mistakes. Just like how to dock, fight, outfit their ship, learn what to trade where, ect. Some of this is explained plainly, some of it is only revealed after someone bothers to dig into the information. If you do enough bounty hunting around RES, you frequently see how scanning and silent running works with NPC ships and how line of sight or distance works in regards to a kill warrant scanner. When a ship is clearly visible in front of you, but you cannot scan it, you should be asking yourself why. When you see that ship become visible but have no shield, you should be asking yourself why. These are not game bugs but rather the NPCs using the mechanics of the game.

Having too much information given to the player has the downside of making those new to the game feel overwhelmed by all the information (as many already are). The only real way to teach something like this is by giving the player chances to learn it themselves (such as smuggling personal weapons for navy rank up).

If you're doing illegal activities, you should not only choose and outfit your ship accordingly, but also be aware of low security systems for refueling, places with active black markets, stations with few security around, and looking at what state the system is in. Practicing with low risk cargo or missions is also suggested before looking for big money. The OP ignored these things and is subsequently at fault for his failings.

*edit* Important information for those who don't understand how heat and scanning works.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...tive-Results?p=5068769&viewfull=1#post5068769

These are consistent with my own experiences.

 

[Andovar]

...and all those millions should just be given away to the player because "he showed up"?..

He showed up??
Spending hours and hours staring at the hyperspace screen and jonking is far from just "showing up"
I'm not saying it's difficult, but it's certainly grueling, and people should be rewarded for their time and perseverance.

It's certainly not something I can do, no matter how many millions are offered. One SagA* trip and I'm forever burnt out. At least until the exploration mechanics change. But props to those people who are willing to do it.
So yes, the millions should be just "given away" to those who are willing to endure such lengthy, mind-numbing trips.

 

[askavir]

He showed up??
Spending hours and hours staring at the hyperspace screen and jonking is far from just "showing up"
I'm not saying it's difficult, but it's certainly grueling, and people should be rewarded for their time and perseverance.

It's certainly not something I can do, no matter how many millions are offered. One SagA* trip and I'm forever burnt out. At least until the exploration mechanics change. But props to those people who are willing to do it.
So yes, the millions should be just "given away" to those who are willing to endure such lengthy, mind-numbing trips.

Yes, simply arriving at the end of the travel, no matter how long, but failing the objective IS just "showing up".

The only actual active gameplay activity during that whole travel is avoiding a couple of possible scan attempts for a few seconds of the entire journey, and yet he still failed.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

No it doesn't.

Thats bloody stupid. If you loose lock due to chaff you should loose scan.

 

[Andovar]

Yes, simply arriving at the end of the travel, no matter how long, but failing the objective IS just "showing up".

The only actual active gameplay activity during that whole travel is avoiding a couple of possible scan attempts for a few seconds of the entire journey, and yet he still failed.

Right. But my point is that going on an insanely long trip and then coming back and just "showing up", should be the objective.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Yes, simply arriving at the end of the travel, no matter how long, but failing the objective IS just "showing up".

The only actual active gameplay activity during that whole travel is avoiding a couple of possible scan attempts for a few seconds of the entire journey, and yet he still failed.

Andovar doesnt get it. He doesnt like those missions, so he assumes noone does. He then assumes a good game rewards people for doing unfun yet riskfree things. Its "How to make Korean MMO 101" mixed with "I am sure everyone likes what I like".

 

[Andovar]

Andovar doesnt get it. He doesnt like those missions, so he assumes noone does. He then assumes a good game rewards people for doing unfun yet riskfree things. Its "How to make Korean MMO 101" mixed with "I am sure everyone likes what I like".

I assume nothing.
How exactly is stating my opinion saying "I am sure everyone likes what I like"??
For petes sake, you could say that about every dissenting opinion on the forums.

And for the record, I still wouldn't do the missions even if they did remove the scan mechanic. Don't need to have a vested interest in something to voice an opinion on it.

 

[Lordxenu]

Not that this will be a help to you, but those of us who did the old Robigo runs prior to 2.0 dropping know the pain of getting scanned with a hold ful of stacked 'Do NOT Get Scanned Mission'. we learnt then how to conquer them pesky scanning NPC's

Either turn and face the scanner and fire one weapon at him to hit him and this stops the scan and he deploys weapons and hunts you instead of scanning you, you then boost boost boost and jump

2nd way (and my personal fav) was just to boost boost boost away to get beyond the 2.5 klick scanning range of the NPC's scanner......


Oh those where the days how i reminisce!

As Mentioned not much good to you now, but a lesson for the future. This game has a way of ruining you plans and you must expect the un-expected. We have all lost out in some way or other....LEARN from you mistake, so next time you will know what to do!

As Ridiculous as it may seem to you, it is the game mechanic, Scanning what NPC's do, it was not sent to scan you just to be ridiculous personally against you, its the game.

Sorry for your loss

I loved the long range dont get scanned missions they were ridiculously well paid but running from interdictions and boosting throughtl the mail slot were so much fun.

I wosh theyd bring them back that was real risk and reward

 

[o'moylan]

Sorry OP, that sucks ! I'm sure I'm not telling you something you don't already know, but for me the best way is to make sure I'm lined up with the toaster and get thru as fast as I can. Hang in there ! o7

 

[Kaybe]

Hooooooly shizer! I didn't know long range Explorer missions had the Secretive tag attached to them. And even there ... out of several Secretive VIPs I had, only a single one ever full on failed from a single scan.

 

[Lobstris]

Additions aren't needed. Smuggling and doing illegal activities should be something that people need to learn how to do and learn from their mistakes. Just like how to dock, fight, outfit their ship, learn what to trade where, ect. Some of this is explained plainly, some of it is only revealed after someone bothers to dig into the information. If you do enough bounty hunting around RES, you frequently see how scanning and silent running works with NPC ships and how line of sight or distance works in regards to a kill warrant scanner. When a ship is clearly visible in front of you, but you cannot scan it, you should be asking yourself why. When you see that ship become visible but have no shield, you should be asking yourself why. These are not game bugs but rather the NPCs using the mechanics of the game.

Except for the first three words (additions and improvements can always be made - more could be done with loss of LoS for general targeting/predictive targeting for example) I don't disagree with anything you're saying in principle. As Askavir pointed out, the issue is a lot of the scanning mechanics involve player response in a very short time period, and the OP was caught out by not paying attention in those vital seconds.

Regarding RESes and AI combat behaviour, I was quite pleased that 2.2 did seem to up AI's use of heat/stealth to break lock, with visible use of heat sinks - even posted about it on these forums.

Having too much information given to the player has the downside of making those new to the game feel overwhelmed by all the information (as many already are). The only real way to teach something like this is by giving the player chances to learn it themselves (such as smuggling personal weapons for navy rank up).

True, but Elite also makes the mistake of not having important information up front, e.g. and the case in point the heat signature is tucked away to one side, and not exactly very clear - last time I looked Star Citizen seemed to have a much more useful IR/EM signature display for example.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
True, but Elite also makes the mistake of not having important information up front, …

Speed and heat should be at those arches where the weapons are displayed and not around the sensor. That would be a huge improvement.

Or maybe a special HUD like the planetary flight HUD with speed, heat and relative alignment of ship to movement trajectory.

In addition to being helpful it would look cool.

 

[Lobstris]

Speed and heat should be at those arches where the weapons are displayed and not around the sensor. That would be a huge improvement.

Or maybe a special HUD like the planetary flight HUD with speed, heat and relative alignment of ship to movement trajectory.

In addition to being helpful it would look cool.

Heh. I've lost count of the number of times I (and others) asked for more (optional) info in the HUD (such as VVI or relative speed to target) during alpha and beta. The heat display used to be larger I'm sure, but shrank with time. The answer that they wanted to keep the 'HUD clear' and more like a WWII fighter, rather than a modern jet, is a bit odd now given the planetary landing HUD does have modern overtones, and provides info (e.g. descent rate) 'up front'.