Silent Running - Test and Qualitative Results

[Synesis]

Greetings Commanders,

there seems to be no available insight into the mechanics of nowaday's silent running (SR). However, it is extensively discussed everytime commanders are talking about smuggling and being scanned, with opinions ranging from it being utterly useless to absolute essential for the smuggler's success.

Here I want to share my qualitative results of a fast experiment to determine the effect of SR on scanner visibility. Measurements were done using a 5D scanner on an Asp and a friend in a Cobra MkIII equipped with a 2A powerplant.

Every commander knows the three types of appearence on the scanner - invisible, hopping blip and targetable - and we wanted to roughly determine the threshold for the different states.

With SR engaged the Cobra was targetable at a range of up to ~400m. A hopping blip could be seen up to 6.6km, then the ship dropped of the scanner.

A quick look into the temperature dependance of being targetable showed that there is no difference between running cold, in this case being below 17% heat, and SR. With higher temperatures the distance in which the Cobra was still targetable increased, where a heat level of 34% made the ship targetable even at the maximum scanner range of 8km.
However, internal heat seemed to have no influence on the signature when SR is on. So a ship's heat radiation system seems to be the main source of emission.

With these results you can see, that your ship employing SR appears as a hopping blip for several km, so the system authorities know very well about your presence. But you are only targetable and thus scanable at a close range of several 100m.

A quick test everyone can do to confirm this:
1. Go to an area where you can expect to be scanned (pirates, authorities, ...)
2. Wait for them to scan you. This will happen at a distance of about 1km.
3. Engage SR.
4. The other ship loses target lock and will close in to about 300m.
5. A new scan is carried out.
Fun fact: if you also break this closer scan, the ship will follow you and every following scan attempt will be carried out at close range, regardless of SR or your temperature.

PS.
As mentioned by the devs, ship size also plays a role. For a Sidewinder the values were slightly smaller.

 

[mp4x]

When you say follow, are you moving at all while SR is on? If so, is it with flight assist off and no thrusters of any kind?


I only use it when stationary at locations I need to scan something, as powered movemenet/trust at all nagates the SR. Anything mobile, like entering a station, dropping heatsinks well timed also means I never get scanned.

For me, there's not really anything to test... Myself and the group I fly with have always used these tools like this, and all of us report never getting scanned. Before joining the forums, I just assumed this is what everyone who uses these tools does.

 

[goemon]

thanks for re-testing

there is a dev comment somewhere, that >20% heat the ship basically acts like running silent for other ships sensors...

 

[Synesis]

When you say follow, are you moving at all while SR is on? If so, is it with flight assist off and no thrusters of any kind?

I did not notice any negative impact from moving the ship while being silent. But note that every change in speed needs activation of thrusters leading to generated heat. This is more important when running cold.

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thanks for re-testing

there is a dev comment somewhere, that >20% heat the ship basically acts like running silent for other ships sensors...

Oops, did not see the other tests.
I was somewhat triggered by today's discussion on a smuggling mission gone wrong despite using SR. I guess it will not hurt to try to lessen the confusion - at least I was not sure about the effects on the scanner. And the 6+km range of detection despite SR shocked me a little...

 

[Burlsol]

I did not notice any negative impact from moving the ship while being silent. But note that every change in speed needs activation of thrusters leading to generated heat. This is more important when running cold.

In my own experience, a ship can still be moving and not targetable until closer than 1km away. The important part I think is based on the size of the ship how much thrust is being applied (both forward as well as maneuvering).

Although there is some beauty in; starting out 10km from the mail slot, turning off all non-essential systems, boosting forward, turning on silent running, flipping 180 to put your back to the station while coasting from your initial boost, requesting docking at 4km from the slot, sliding backwards as you deploy landing gear 1km from the slot to slow your approach, passing through the slot backwards, turning off silent running and trying to stop before you hit the back of the station. Actually performing this maneuver successfully is often more risky than just taking your chances with the RNG and running cool.

 

[goemon]

In my own experience, a ship can still be moving and not targetable until closer than 1km away. The important part I think is based on the size of the ship how much thrust is being applied (both forward as well as maneuvering). .

auto-resolve distance also depends on the other ships sensors class and grade.

here is a dev describing mechanics of silent running: "Well, the smaller your signature, the closer a ship has to be before its sensors will detect you as a fuzzy contact (where the sensor marker flickers and moves around) and then as a resolved contact.

You can gain a similar benefit that silent running gives you by manually turning off modules. Your power plant runs cooler so less heat is generated and radiated. However, unless you basically turn off everything (including life support) the effect will be less effective.

There are two caveats to silent running benefits:

A) when your ship gets very close to another vessel its sensors will be able to detect you even if you are rigged for silent running. This auto-resolve distance is normally around two to three hundred metres.

B) ships can be fitted with more powerful sensors that increase the distance that they can detect you, and that can push the auto-resolve distance out to around five hundred metres or more (good sensors are the silent runner's worst nightmare)." https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...s-it-working?p=1158586&viewfull=1#post1158586


and here is na'qans excellent silent running 101:

[video=youtube_share;xv-g4Fv_PwY]https://youtu.be/xv-g4Fv_PwY[/video]

 

[DukeIronHand]

In my own experience, a ship can still be moving and not targetable until closer than 1km away. The important part I think is based on the size of the ship how much thrust is being applied (both forward as well as maneuvering).

Although there is some beauty in; starting out 10km from the mail slot, turning off all non-essential systems, boosting forward, turning on silent running, flipping 180 to put your back to the station while coasting from your initial boost, requesting docking at 4km from the slot, sliding backwards as you deploy landing gear 1km from the slot to slow your approach, passing through the slot backwards, turning off silent running and trying to stop before you hit the back of the station. Actually performing this maneuver successfully is often more risky than just taking your chances with the RNG and running cool.

Wait, wait...should I be writing this down?

 

[Lightspeed]

In my own experience, a ship can still be moving and not targetable until closer than 1km away. The important part I think is based on the size of the ship how much thrust is being applied (both forward as well as maneuvering).

Although there is some beauty in; starting out 10km from the mail slot, turning off all non-essential systems, boosting forward, turning on silent running, flipping 180 to put your back to the station while coasting from your initial boost, requesting docking at 4km from the slot, sliding backwards as you deploy landing gear 1km from the slot to slow your approach, passing through the slot backwards, turning off silent running and trying to stop before you hit the back of the station. Actually performing this maneuver successfully is often more risky than just taking your chances with the RNG and running cool.

Reverse slot entry ? You've got to have a lot of confidence in your trajectory to pull that off ! :O

Must try that in my Beluga

 

[drzdeano]

So when you use silent running.....what happens to your signature as your ship starts melting from the inside?

Do you suddenly appear over 100% or does it fully contain all internal heat, even if your melting?

 

[Tanall]

So when you use silent running.....what happens to your signature as your ship starts melting from the inside?

Do you suddenly appear over 100% or does it fully contain all internal heat, even if your melting?

I'm fairly certain your power plant and propulsion system would suffer from a rapid unplanned disassembly long before the rest of the ship started melting from heat.

 

[Burlsol]

So when you use silent running.....what happens to your signature as your ship starts melting from the inside?

Do you suddenly appear over 100% or does it fully contain all internal heat, even if your melting?

Your signature momentarily fades (to about 75% normal), then quickly starts to increase as you cross closer to 100% heat tolerance. At 100% heat tolerance silent running does nothing to mask your signature and may actually be worse than normal operation depending on how much heat you passively have.

 

[drzdeano]

So what is the point of silent Running?

Cold running seems to outperform it and is more useful in every way

 

[Faded Glory]

Your signature momentarily fades (to about 75% normal), then quickly starts to increase as you cross closer to 100% heat tolerance. At 100% heat tolerance silent running does nothing to mask your signature and may actually be worse than normal operation depending on how much heat you passively have.

Are you sure?

Silent running simply disables your shields and closes the heat outlets / vents on the ship, hence heat builds up internally, but since no heat escapes your signature is minimized. If your heat levels become critical, you will take damage to the ship, but as far as I'm aware, the heats still contained. Drop a heat sink and the ship's heat goes back down, even with the vents closed.

Personally I use silent running and speed when I am trying to enter a station without being scanned. Silent running doesn't stop you being targeted and scanned if the ship can actually be seen, hence the need for speed.

 

[Synesis]

So when you use silent running.....what happens to your signature as your ship starts melting from the inside?

Do you suddenly appear over 100% or does it fully contain all internal heat, even if your melting?

That is a good question.
As mentioned above, SR masks your heat signature. Even at 300% and with lots of hull damage by internal heat the test ship was not targetable. So it seems you melt from the inside while the ship appears cold on the outside.

 

[Helgarth]

Your signature momentarily fades (to about 75% normal), then quickly starts to increase as you cross closer to 100% heat tolerance. At 100% heat tolerance silent running does nothing to mask your signature and may actually be worse than normal operation depending on how much heat you passively have.

Where are you pulling that from??? That's so wrong!

 

[Lightspeed]

Where are you pulling that from??? That's so wrong!

This could be tested so easily by someone with a mate in the game. (Hint - use a cheap ship)

 

[Andovar]

Interesting test.
But this still doesn't confirm how the NPC's see things.
They've been known to have that "eye of sauron" ability in the past.
Do we know for sure that they follow the same rules as players do in this regard?

 

[Synesis]

Well, without the source code we cannot not know for sure. But the quick test I mentioned at the end of the OP shows that NPCs are affected by SR. Just try it.

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This could be tested so easily by someone with a mate in the game. (Hint - use a cheap ship)

See here:

That is a good question.
As mentioned above, SR masks your heat signature. Even at 300% and with lots of hull damage by internal heat the test ship was not targetable. So it seems you melt from the inside while the ship appears cold on the outside.

 

[Lightspeed]

Well, without the source code we cannot not know for sure. But the quick test I mentioned at the end of the OP shows that NPCs are affected by SR. Just try it.

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See here:

Very interesting ! So, if we just tough it out with all the dire warnings and sparks flying, we should remain invisible.

Also - related, I suppose ...... I have observed NPC pirates in RES sites sometimes go off the radar, usually when the police are nearby. I have seen, more than once, a pirate go invisible and then reappear behind the law enforcement ship that was, presumably, scanning. I am guessing this is intelligent use of heatsinks by the AI. But it was impressive to watch.