Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is.

[Alec Turner]

Mods - Please close this thread.

No one want to discuss a Linux client so no need to have this open. Thanks.

Try re-writing the thread with a dfferent title, something like "I want to back a linux version of ED, who's with me?".

Don't mention Windows 10, or at least don't mention the privacy stuff (there's plenty of people, myself included, who love Windows 10 and will start rushing to its defence, thereby de-railing your thread).

 

[Dbrn47]

Sorry about that Shadragon. [sad] Better luck next time.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

That really isn't answering the question I asked, what you are doing right there is just taking a jab at me, and telling me to do the research, but when I confronted you with my research you said it was wrong, so I'm asking you what you know and what they did wrong? yet this is how you answer? That is the lovely old defence in that "You are wrong, but I'm not going to inform you how I know you are wrong, I'm just going to tell you, you are wrong."

The reason is precisely what I wrote : do your own research.

It's not directed at or against you.
Problem is... Already well over a decade ago, I told people (IT Sec) where to look and tried to give them a hint or two. Even when presenting them a complete timeline with dozens of documented facts, in the end I had to realize I made a simple mistake.
It turned out they never wanted to learn. They wanted to believe that everything was okay. I was simply wasting my time.

Essentially the reason I stopped spoon-feeding people the research or direct facts/links etc. was this :

So seriously, if your research (i.e. taken from magazines or alike publications for a general audience) turned out nothing... I'd say you looked at the wrong places and need to dig a little bit deeper.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Mods - Please close this thread.

No one want to discuss a Linux client so no need to have this open. Thanks.

I think it is better to start a new topic and just focus on Linux. Mixing that with a debate on privacy, windows 10 and such is just asking for a derailed topic unfortuinately.

- - - Updated - - -

The reason is precisely what I wrote : do your own research.

It's not directed at or against you.
Problem is... Already well over a decade ago, I told people (IT Sec) where to look and tried to give them a hint or two. Even when presenting them a complete timeline with dozens of documented facts, in the end I had to realize I made a simple mistake.
It turned out they never wanted to learn. They wanted to believe that everything was okay. I was simply wasting my time.

Essentially the reason I stopped spoon-feeding people the research or direct facts/links etc. was this :
http://scienceblogs.com/corpuscallo...4a4855d5454ecce8c67-an-inconvenient-truth.jpg

So seriously, if your research (i.e. taken from magazines or alike publications for a general audience) turned out nothing... I'd say you looked at the wrong places and need to dig a little bit deeper.

The problem with that picture is that Al Gore actually bothered to make a movie, and to present his ideas and reasons. Which is the opposite of what you're doing. You are essentially half that cartoon, which wouldnt be nearly as good. You dont want to 'spoonfeed' people? Sure. Then just dont bring it up and stay out of it. Otherwise you're just looking like a dude sitting on a high horse snubbing lesser people for their ignorance, which will probably do more harm than good.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Then just dont bring it up and stay out of it. Otherwise you're just looking like a dude sitting on a high horse snubbing lesser people for their ignorance, which will probably do more harm than good.

A quote : You can show people the right doors. But you can make them go through them.

I'll stop right here. However... noone can or will ever tell me to "stop doing it and stay out of it".
Think what you wish, but don't make the beginner mistake of judging people. I or how I look/sound like to you or others is entirely irrelevant. That's not what it's about.

PS.
I knew the very second I made my 1st post exactly how the discussion would turn or which arguments would show up.
One of the reasons I stopped handing out "free for all" Files and Dossiers that took many hours to prepare. Just wasted time on the audience. It's just not how it works. Either you put your teeth into it after being given the lead/incentive - or not. Your call.

 

[Dbrn47]

A quote : You can show people the right doors. But you can make them go through them.

I'll stop right here. However... noone can or will ever tell me to "stop doing it and stay out of it".
Think what you wish, but don't make the beginner mistake of judging people. I or how I look/sound like to you or others is entirely irrelevant. That's not what it's about.

PS.
I knew the very second I made my 1st post exactly how the discussion would turn or which arguments would show up.
One of the reasons I stopped handing out "free for all" Files and Dossiers that took many hours to prepare. Just wasted time on the audience. It's just not how it works. Either you put your teeth into it after being given the lead/incentive - or not. Your call.

Idk, I personally would have been more willing to go look into the information had you actually said something (even though you weren't directly speaking to me), but since you can't be bothered for fear of wasting time, I can't be bothered either, for fear of wasting time. Suppose you were quick to judge eh? I'll just continue carrying on thinking in my cynical way that I have no privacy in the first place, seems easier anyhow. [up]

 

[Caramel Clown]

What API it would run on under Linux?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Idk, I personally would have been more willing to go look into the information had you actually said something (even though you weren't directly speaking to me), but since you can't be bothered for fear of wasting time, I can't be bothered either, for fear of wasting time. Suppose you were quick to judge eh? I'll just continue carrying on thinking in my cynical way that I have no privacy in the first place, seems easier anyhow. [up]

Exactly.

A quote : You can show people the right doors. But you can make them go through them.

I'll stop right here. However... noone can or will ever tell me to "stop doing it and stay out of it".
Think what you wish, but don't make the beginner mistake of judging people. I or how I look/sound like to you or others is entirely irrelevant. That's not what it's about.

PS.
I knew the very second I made my 1st post exactly how the discussion would turn or which arguments would show up.
One of the reasons I stopped handing out "free for all" Files and Dossiers that took many hours to prepare. Just wasted time on the audience. It's just not how it works. Either you put your teeth into it after being given the lead/incentive - or not. Your call.

Thing is, you're not showing people the door. You're just claiming there is a door and people will just have to find it themselves. Surely you agree with me that random dudes providing unsupported claims on the internet is not an incentive to put your teeth into anything. So as Dbrn47 said: for most that call will be 'yeah whatever.'. And that makes perfect sense, because we dont have unlimited time to chase random opinions from random people you've never met or seen, with no background info or verifiable credentials, nor any supporting facts or info. Thats just asking for way too much.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Thing is, you're not showing people the door. You're just claiming there is a door and people will just have to find it themselves. Surely you agree with me that random dudes providing unsupported claims on the internet is not an incentive to put your teeth into anything. So as Dbrn47 said: for most that call will be 'yeah whatever.'. And that makes perfect sense, because we dont have unlimited time to chase random opinions from random people you've never met or seen, with no background info or verifiable credentials, nor any supporting facts or info. Thats just asking for way too much.

This is what I found after 15 Seconds of a "I don't yet know anything on the matter" Simulated Google Search :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)


Just one of hundreds of Data points. Entry points for research.
You seriously saying doing that exceeds anyone's capabilities or time? Really?

That's the issue nowadays. Spoonfeeding. People want it. But I don't do that - for exactly the reasons so nicely demonstrated in this thread. It's always the same.

 

[shadragon]

What API it would run on under Linux?

Preferably Vulkan.

 

[Faybs]

OP is perfectly entitled to run whatever OS they want, but if their main concern is privacy, as someone who's done this sort of thing for a living my advise is that they should be a lot more worried about their ISP and mobile service provider. Switching to Linux isn't going to help a whole lot if nothing else changes.

 

[Dbrn47]

This is what I found after 15 Seconds of a "I don't yet know anything on the matter" Simulated Google Search :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)


Just one of hundreds of Data points. Entry points for research.
You seriously saying doing that exceeds anyone's capabilities or time? Really?

That's the issue nowadays. Spoonfeeding. People want it. But I don't do that - for exactly the reasons so nicely demonstrated in this thread. It's always the same.

Cool. Well, I've heard of this stuff before. Though I'm not really compelled to think that anyone is watching what I'm doing or saying considering I'm not a criminal and the most I probably have to hide is some adult material I've looked at. I've turned off what I can and request that my traffic isn't tracked but don't fool myself into believing anything I do is completely private at any time.

Other than that, thanks for actually saying something, was an interesting read, sorry you feel like it's spoon feeding and not simply sharing knowledge.

 

[Lobey]

Ryzen and all new processors will run just fine on older windows - right down to Windows for workgroups - just extra stuff , TPM and the like won't be supported (no loss).
Also trivial to make Win 10 look and act like previous builds and strip out anything you don't want.
Haven't tried Elite on Linux, but have a dig around on the forums - usually some way to get anything windows based to run under wine.

 

[Faybs]

Ryzen and all new processors will run just fine on older windows - right down to Windows for workgroups - just extra stuff , TPM and the like won't be supported (no loss).
Also trivial to make Win 10 look and act like previous builds and strip out anything you don't want.
Haven't tried Elite on Linux, but have a dig around on the forums - usually some way to get anything windows based to run under wine.

Yeah, that's just some marketing that AMD is using because intel's eating their lunch this time around; CPUs getting new features that older software can't use (because it's not written to use them) is nothing new. Just think about it - this new CPU can either run any software, or it can only run the very latest software. What kind of company would artificially limit their market that way? I definitely wouldn't upgrade my CPU if it was going to make all my current software obsolete.

 

[Ian Skippy]

This is what I found after 15 Seconds of a "I don't yet know anything on the matter" Simulated Google Search :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)


Just one of hundreds of Data points. Entry points for research.
You seriously saying doing that exceeds anyone's capabilities or time? Really?

That's the issue nowadays. Spoonfeeding. People want it. But I don't do that - for exactly the reasons so nicely demonstrated in this thread. It's always the same.

Ofcourse I have 15 seconds. Everyone does. The problem is that I dont have those 15 seconds every time someone expects me to google it myself. I also won't know if we're looking at the same kind of info. For example, suppose I would tell you that vacinations can lead to autism. You may think you know the answer to it. You may google it and get confirmation of your belief. But does that proof that I dont have info you don't have? It doesn't. But if I were to give one or two links, like you just did, you will know whether I are basing my claim (as opposed to yours as it may be), you can make a better judgement call with very little time spend. If I were to link to some recent publication that is in press, that may have you consider my claim differently than were I to link to some nutjob site.

And thats the balance. I dont expect you to write me, a complete stranger, a full report. But if you say 'I believe [x], and if you want to know more here is a starting point [link] I may be much more inclined to take your seriously, as opposed to 'the truth is [x], and if you dont get it you're too lazy or stupid to figure it out yourself'.

So thanks for the links.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Cool. Well, I've heard of this stuff before. Though I'm not really compelled to think that anyone is watching what I'm doing or saying considering I'm not a criminal and the most I probably have to hide is some adult material I've looked at. I've turned off what I can and request that my traffic isn't tracked but don't fool myself into believing anything I do is completely private at any time.

Other than that, thanks for actually saying something, was an interesting read, sorry you feel like it's spoon feeding and not simply sharing knowledge.

It's okay and I really didn't mean any bad.
Just remember it isn't about "I have nothing to hide" or "I'm not a criminal". It's only about control.
Just imagine if someone you don't know had permanent access to every single Password you ever entered, knew every single Website you visited and had every single Message or Mail you ever received or sent.
It's a thought experiment basically, just for yourself.

Strangely, if I had written "Imagine you had a Virus/Trojan that [...]" most people would be like "*omg* I'd have to instantly do something about it". But when it's an Agency or Company (even if unknown), most tend to be like "I have nothing to hide, this probably isn't so bad".
It's an interesting observation to make, but one that everyone has to make for himself (if valid)

-------
Anyway, back @ Topic :
Since Ryzen won't have an iGPU for the time being, I assume indeed it'll run just fine on any other OS (with a dedicated Video card, it wouldn't even matter and could remain disabled).

However, I'm not too sure about the Motherboard Drivers. That could prove to be somewhat of a showstopper. New Chipsets after all... Oh well, time will tell.

 

[Faybs]

It's okay and I really didn't mean any bad.
Just remember it isn't about "I have nothing to hide" or "I'm not a criminal". It's only about control.
Just imagine if someone you don't know had permanent access to every single Password you ever entered, knew every single Website you visited and had every single Message or Mail you ever received or sent.
It's a thought experiment basically, just for yourself.

Strangely, if I had written "Imagine you had a Virus/Trojan that [...]" most people would be like "*omg* I'd have to instantly do something about it". But when it's an Agency or Company (even if unknown), most tend to be like "I have nothing to hide, this probably isn't so bad".
It's an interesting observation to make, but one that everyone has to make for himself (if valid)

-------
Anyway, back @ Topic :
Since Ryzen won't have an iGPU for the time being, I assume indeed it'll run just fine on any other OS.

However, I'm not too sure about the Motherboard Drivers. That could prove to be somewhat of a showstopper. New Chipsets after all... Oh well, time will tell.

If the motherboard has a chipset from one of the big companies (intel, amd, nvidia, via, etc), you don't generally need to worry about it - they usually work with the big distros to get their drivers into the latest kernel and with MS to get them into windows update.

 

[ShimEnki]

This is what I found after 15 Seconds of a "I don't yet know anything on the matter" Simulated Google Search :
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)


Just one of hundreds of Data points. Entry points for research.
You seriously saying doing that exceeds anyone's capabilities or time? Really?

That's the issue nowadays. Spoonfeeding. People want it. But I don't do that - for exactly the reasons so nicely demonstrated in this thread. It's always the same.

Data points? did you say data points? I dont need a SRV for this right..plzzz say i dont

 

[Dbrn47]

It's okay and I really didn't mean any bad.
Just remember it isn't about "I have nothing to hide" or "I'm not a criminal". It's only about control.
Just imagine if someone you don't know had permanent access to every single Password you ever entered, knew every single Website you visited and had every single Message or Mail you ever received or sent.
It's a thought experiment basically, just for yourself.

Strangely, if I had written "Imagine you had a Virus/Trojan that [...]" most people would be like "*omg* I'd have to instantly do something about it". But when it's an Agency or Company (even if unknown), most tend to be like "I have nothing to hide, this probably isn't so bad".
It's an interesting observation to make, but one that everyone has to make for himself (if valid)

Well, for me it's a slippery slope that ends up with boarded up windows, off the grid, and secret rooms with an arsenal of rifles/ammo. I've had viruses and had my information stolen and used before, there are processes for it. No reason to try and give myself the illusion of full control at all times, I could very well be hit by a bus tomorrow and none of it mattered. I'm as careful as I can be without giving myself a disorder. Different backgrounds and history, so different strokes. [wacky]

 

[Vasco Sapien]

I'm going to be investing in a new gaming rig when the new RyZen CPU's come out. Those new AMD CPU's only support Win 10 and Linux by design. I can't stand Win10 and feel Microsoft is committing an atrocious invasion of privacy on anyone who buys or uses that OS. I also think this will only get worse over time. So I'm not playing that game and I'll be getting a Linux OS on the new machine.

The game I want to play is Elite: Dangerous and I'd like to see a Linux launcher and client developed for it. During the original kickstarter for E: D, the stretch goal for a Mac client (Based on BSD UNIX) was £150,000 over the main goal of 1.25 million Pounds. This sounds reasonable to me and as the PS4 runs Orbis OS (a derivative of FreeBSD Linux) then I'd say we're already very close to having a Linux client that can support VR and all future expansions on a real gaming rig.

I'll even go further and if Frontier commits to either a Kickstarter (or internally funded project) to develop a Linux game client, I'll publicly vow to spend £500 toward that goal. I'd encourage them to embrace the Vulkan API as the core of this project as well.

Until I can play E: D on Linux, I'll be keeping my old Win 7 machine for just that. I'm hoping it will not be long before I can drop Windows completely.

If there is anyone else out there who would like to support this as well, please speak up. Cheers.

Im up for this... any movement away from the Microsoft Mafia and PC gaming is a good cause in my books.