Does Frontier intend players to get Elite exploration within a week?

[Dbrn47]

In other news, I found a nice pair of binary Earth-like worlds a few hours ago.

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/wYOop8I.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rTyocKS.jpg

...

But yeah, I also updated the OP with the following to help avoid some confusion... [downcast]

Is this where I can be pedantic and point out that the passenger missions aren't new?

 

[WR3ND]

Is this where I can be pedantic and point out that the passenger missions aren't new?

The ones that increase exploration rank are. Well... relatively speaking.

But yeah, might as well either way.

 

[jacozilla]

@OP -

It's not a bug. And what you're essentially asking for is a nerf to exploration payouts or a special coefficient to credit = rank up that is lower / nerfed for exploration only.

The passenger missions giving exploration rank faster are working precisely as intended. You can make the opinion you don't like the speed of exploration ranking now being on par with trade, but unless you're also calling for a nerf to trade ranking, all the passenger missions have done is -finally- give the exploration track a reasonably decent way to make credits.

And when you make those credits, it ranks you now faster because you get a lot more credits.

Hence the only way to slow this down is to either nerf the payout amounts so exploration goes back to sub-bottom feeder level, or apply a special coefficient to rank up where 1 credit earned by exploration is no longer the same as for trade.

Further, the elite in days example is an extreme, even if true. If you do just the local sight seeing missions (under 100 LY) and not the 10k+ LY ones, it takes you quite a bit longer - because again the payouts are far higher for the longer range trips. And yet even those payouts are still far lower on cr per hour basis than most other activities. So exploration pay has gotten much better, true. But far from OP.

Bottom line, intended or unintended, all you're calling for is a nerf to exploration revenue when finally, after however long people have been crying for it, the payouts got reasonably decent.

 

[Cmdr Zach]

Passenger missions aren't new. Sightseeing missions that give direct credit to explorer rank for the payout of the mission are (since last update). And these entail zero 'exploration' as you are going to know system with human placed tourist beacons to scan. Hardly pushing the frontier is it. You can rank all the way to elite explorer without going further than 400Ly from Sol.

By next year, you'll be awarded your Elite participation badges when you leave the starter system for successfully not getting shot by the station, noticing stars around you, and successfully earning money on your first trip. Yay go you! Have triple elite!

 

[Strangepork]

But exploration rank is meaningless. Just like the trade and combat ones are. They are a cumulative statistic. Nothing more.

It doesn't mean anything more than "I scanned x amount of y and made z credits - horray I am elite!".

It's never meant anything and cannot mean anything if it's cumulative, rather than representative. The latter meaning the title refers to competency, versus completion.

tl;dr - problem isn't the ranking; it's that the gameplay is so hysterically shallow, as to make the cumulative total meaningless; give it meaning, or move on.

Surely, if they have any meaning, it's the time, effort and commitment it takes to achieve them?

Edit: this poll is strange as essentially it's a question that should be aired at FD, not players.

 

[jacozilla]

Passenger missions aren't new. Sightseeing missions that give direct credit to explorer rank for the payout of the mission are (since last update). And these entail zero 'exploration' as you are going to know system with human placed tourist beacons to scan. Hardly pushing the frontier is it. You can rank all the way to elite explorer without going further than 400Ly from Sol.

By next year, you'll be awarded your Elite participation badges when you leave the starter system for successfully not getting shot by the station, noticing stars around you, and successfully earning money on your first trip. Yay go you! Have triple elite!

You could get to Elite exploration before this update came around without leaving more than 100 LY any direction of the bubble. Gaining exploration rank was never distance based, but how much and how many scans you took. Without leaving barely 50-100 LY around the bubble, there are tens and tens of thousands of systems to scan. Even without first discovery bonus, you could easily gain all the exploration rank you wanted without going very far.

It would take time, true. But no more time than if you went 10k LY out first, and then scanned.

Your point that gaining exploration top status without ever going very far out has some merit, but you're barking up the wrong tree by tying distance of exploration to Elite in exploration rank, because if so, that ship sailed long, long ago.

 

[Dbrn47]

Passenger missions aren't new. Sightseeing missions that give direct credit to explorer rank for the payout of the mission are (since last update). And these entail zero 'exploration' as you are going to know system with human placed tourist beacons to scan. Hardly pushing the frontier is it. You can rank all the way to elite explorer without going further than 400Ly from Sol.

By next year, you'll be awarded your Elite participation badges when you leave the starter system for successfully not getting shot by the station, noticing stars around you, and successfully earning money on your first trip. Yay go you! Have triple elite!

Eye of the beholder I guess, I've been to many places I've never been thanks to the missions and I like some of the backstory for the points. (not all of them are gold) It sort of shows that there is actually plenty for me to explore in the bubble yet, should I actually want to without the missions. The journey to many of these places also offer the chance to scan many places I haven't. So I'm not quite sure why the complete brush off when it comes to the same opportunity to explore as flying in a random direction in the galaxy, doing effectively the same thing without the mission.

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Surely, if they have any meaning it's the, time, effort and commitment it takes to achieve them?

Surely, you can gauge that yourself without developer acknowledgement in the first place? I've seen it plenty even here on the forums... Many explorers showcasing things that have absolutely zero to do with any ranks or badges of any sort.

 

[Mengy]

Bottom line, intended or unintended, all you're calling for is a nerf to exploration revenue when finally, after however long people have been crying for it, the payouts got reasonably decent.

No one wants the passenger mission payouts nerfed, I've not seen anyone in this thread call for that. What should be nerfed are the exploration rank contributions from passenger sightseeing missions, they progress rank FAR too quickly, and it greatly trivializes the effort to get Elite rank in exploration. It's stupidly easy to get in a matter of days now doing only sightseeing passenger missions.

Do you think it should be possible to go from Aimless to Elite rank in exploration in a few days of playing?

 

[GG7]

A lot of players have either forgot or were not here back in the earlier days of ED when ALL of the rankings were much easier to advance in. Combat in particular.

So... One could make the argument that this isn't the first time it has been easier than it use to be to rank up.

Speaking as someone who did a lot of flying about and barely saw any increase to my Exploration rank in nearly two years, I welcome the change! The added ranking I am getting now, I just consider delayed reward for all the time I wasn't getting crap for my efforts.

 

[Kingston@#]

its now been 2yrs and i still havnt made it to elite exploder.

bothered, NO

 

[WR3ND]

...

I'm not concerned about the credit payouts in particular. But isn't the ratio much higher with exploration than trade, since exploration has a much lower Elite rank threshold? What I mean is, isn't the payout to rank weighted much more significantly in exploration than trade as it is now with these passenger missions?

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No one wants the passenger mission payouts nerfed, I've not seen anyone in this thread call for that. What should be nerfed are the exploration rank contributions from passenger sightseeing missions, they progress rank FAR too quickly, and it greatly trivializes the effort to get Elite rank in exploration. It's stupidly easy to get in a matter of days now doing only sightseeing passenger missions.

Do you think it should be possible to go from Aimless to Elite rank in exploration in a few days of playing?

Yes, regardless of payouts, getting Elite in exploration in a couple of days worth of playing does seem pretty ridiculous to me at least. Might as well not even bother having the exploration rank at all if it's meant to be that trivial.

 

[GG7]

I'm not concerned about the credit payouts in particular. But isn't the ratio much higher with exploration than trade, since exploration has a much lower Elite rank threshold? What I mean is, isn't the payout to rank weighted much more significantly in exploration than trade as it is now with these passenger missions?

Its definitely more weighted towards these passenger missions than trade missions are to Trade rank.

But... As was mentioned earlier in the thread by another commander... Before this change, exploration ranking was all about SCANS! Didn't have much to do with distance and how remote or unexplored the systems you visited were other than $$ value of the data. Someone poking around the bubble could hit Elite in Exploration just as fast as someone going to Sag A if they did the exact same number of scans.

I think FD has simply added some credit to those who are willing to travel some distances to complete these sightseeing and other passenger mission types.

As I said earlier... I have absolutely no problem with this at all. I am now finally at Pioneer 15%, which based on my double digit weeks stat, is the least point along the Explorer ranking you would expect me to be. Considering how much I have done in that area of gameplay in the last 2+ years.

But considering how this and all the three major ranks are calculated, NONE of them mean diddly, since they can all be achieved in a multitude of ways that have nothing to do with the skill the rank purports to exemplify.

 

[WR3ND]

Surely, if they have any meaning, it's the time, effort and commitment it takes to achieve them?

Edit: this poll is strange as essentially it's a question that should be aired at FD, not players.

It's to help reflect the general community preference regarding this.

Edit: Also, in case you didn't notice, the thread title question isn't the same as the poll question.

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As was mentioned earlier in the thread by another commander... Ranking in exploration all comes down to SCANS! Has never had anything to do with distance and how remote or unexplored the systems you visited were. I think FD has simply added some credit to those who are willing to travel some distances to complete these sightseeing and other passenger mission types.

As I said earlier... I have absolutely no problem with this at all. I am not at Pioneer 15%, which after playing as long as I have been playing is the least point I should be at, considering what my gameplay time stats indicate.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to what you quoted. Again, I'm not talking about the payout, I'm talking about how the payout is weighted as it applies to rank with these missions.

Edit: OK, I see you've since edited your post. [hehe] If that's your preference, fair enough.

 

[GG7]

It's to help reflect the general community preference regarding this.

Edit: Also, in case you didn't notice, the thread title question isn't the same as the poll question.

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I'm not sure how this is relevant to what you quoted. Again, I'm not talking about the payout, I'm talking about how the payout is weighted as it applies to rank with these missions.

Edit: OK, I see you've since edited your post. [hehe] If that's your preference, fair enough.

I was always referring to rank points.

And I think the claim of achieving Elite Exploration rank in a matter of days is a wee bit of a stretch. I do tons of these passenger missions and I am not even close to hitting Elite in exploration, and I have been playing for years, with a solid base of Exploration rank well before this change came about.

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Its definitely ranking up faster than it did before... But again.. I think this is long overdue.

 

[Ca$hback]

Too many people seem to consider there to be two ranks: Loser and Elite.
If you're not elite, you're one-upped by the ones who are and it makes you feel insecure.
You need to appear as good as everyone else, quickly.
I don't see everyone's problem with paying their dues to get where they are.
It should take approx 1000 hours (assuming you're generally successful) to achieve Elite in any field.
Instead of getting bored with the grind and devaluing your own efforts, try appreciating "not being the best but still being pretty good" at Expert or Broker or Pathfinder.
No way you should take less pride in your rank. If anything you should take more pride in the ranks that come before.
It feels better when it means something. When you water down the standards it loses it's value. It retains some personal value but there's nothing to indicate that you paid your dues.
How well does that really work for you? If you're sad, smiling will only cheer you up so much. Looking on the bright side doesn't actually change anything. We're social creatures and we want some recognition as a rule with a few exceptions. Calling it a badge is rather obtuse. Like you're going to be sticking your chest out with a smug look on your face.
If it doesn't mean anything to you why are you the one wanting to rush it? It's not even hypocritical, it's some other kind of backwards altogether.
So many fast games. Is this one not fast enough to compete? People want their predictable 10 minute attention span dose of dopamine or the game fails and nobody plays it.
I hope they keep it long. The scale requires a long game.
While content is a great reward it's also magnetic to the mindset of "unlock everything so I can finally play", so that when they finally make the game "playable" they've already blown through most of the content, not playing it but getting through it so they can get to the next thing they need to get through. Rank-gating content is a big contributor to people not feeling a game is fast enough or not providing adequate rewards for the time invested.
Managing expectations. Advertising the strengths to sell it to the right crowd instead of pandering.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

I honestly wished it boosted trade rank

 

[Mengy]

I honestly wished it boosted trade rank

The ferry passenger missions actually DO boost trade rank, but at a much more appropriate level, not huge and unbalanced like the sightseeing missions do for exploration rank.

 

[Dbrn47]

The ferry passenger missions actually DO boost trade rank, but at a much more appropriate level, not huge and unbalanced like the sightseeing missions do for exploration rank.

Have you done the math to back that up? Something tells me it's the same ratio, it's just that Exploration Rank has a lower cap for Elite.

 

[Mengy]

Have you done the math to back that up? Something tells me it's the same ratio, it's just that Exploration Rank has a lower cap for Elite.

I've not done actual math, but I've ran a lot of passenger ferry missions (I'm still Entrepreneur in trade rank) and my rank might go up a percentage point or two at most with each mission. Every example of the sightseeing missions posted by others I've seen has been greatly more than that, much much more. I've been Elite in exploration for over a year now, so I can't test it personally.

It would take me a very long time indeed to make Elite in trading running just pax ferry missions. People are making Elite in exploration in a matter of days with sightseeing missions. It's not the same ratio, not even close.

 

[Dbrn47]

I've not done actual math, but I've ran a lot of passenger ferry missions (I'm still Entrepreneur in trade rank) and my rank might go up a percentage point or two at most with each mission. Every example of the sightseeing missions posted by others I've seen has been greatly more than that, much much more. I've been Elite in exploration for over a year now, so I can't test it personally.

It would take me a very long time indeed to make Elite in trading running just pax ferry missions. People are making Elite in exploration in a matter of days with sightseeing missions. It's not the same ratio, not even close.

Isn't it 160m vs 1b and change for Explorer vs Trader?