Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

[Justicar_Thorn]

Seriously guys? If they made these puzzles easier to figure out then they'd be solved in a day and everyone would be ticked that they didn't even get a chance to participate. I'd much rather they make it super hard and obscure, and then give hints if we're not making progress after a few weeks/months. If you're getting frustrated, then just sit the mystery out...don't ruin it for everyone else who is actually having fun trying to figure things out.

So far I've seen about 300 pages of this thread pass since we got this " mission" and not an inch of progress. I don't want easy, but i do want solvable. As is our best course for progress is brute force. That's not a puzzle, that's organized chaos. That's not fun, it's tedious. This isn't enjoyable, it's frustrating. We have hundreds of people on 2 platforms working on this and the only thing that's happened was predetermined progress after one of the fastest CGs I've seen.

FD just didn't do a good job here. Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic. This isn't a puzzle, it's a stalemate. With this many people working on it, it only leaves poor design as the cause. This is a game. It shouldn't take months to progress this.

 

[rashkaindaspace]

I think it's possible. That shape of the top of the ruins is so hard to ignore. You might be on to something in that regard. Has anyone been that way?

I just realized that if we find this one it may lead to clues for the next and so on!

Exactly! [yesnod] I think this shape is a real clue, as far as ingame system maps do not show us realtime position of planets, but parade of planets (rare astronomical phenomenon). I believe that this puzzle can be solved with in-game mechanics (devs hinted at it). So I checked that shape with all new systems. As u see, only one of them is suitable. Next ruins site will have a different shape. (maybe there are ruins in all 4 new systems), but this one leads to IC 2391 Sector GW-V b2-4. (Because of problems with pc I will test this theory only on monday)

 

[Pumabear8]

So far I've seen about 300 pages of this thread pass since we got this " mission" and not an inch of progress.

Just this, there's been zero progress, only hints from RAM TAH, puzzles of course should have some difficulty, but when there is zero progress by 1000s of players over weeks, it's time to start questioning the validity of the puzzle.

- - - Updated - - -

Regarding my post, the simple point is we've not moved forward, the only reason we left the ruins to those systems is because RAM TAH said so, nothing at the ruins inspired us to go to those systems.

 

[n o o d l z]

So far I've seen about 300 pages of this thread pass since we got this " mission" and not an inch of progress. I don't want easy, but i do want solvable. As is our best course for progress is brute force. That's not a puzzle, that's organized chaos. That's not fun, it's tedious. This isn't enjoyable, it's frustrating. We have hundreds of people on 2 platforms working on this and the only thing that's happened was predetermined progress after one of the fastest CGs I've seen.

FD just didn't do a good job here. Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic. This isn't a puzzle, it's a stalemate. With this many people working on it, it only leaves poor design as the cause. This is a game. It shouldn't take months to progress this.

The fact that there are 300 pages, most of which are productive theories and ideas, should tell you that tons of people are enjoying this. If this all got solved 2 months ago...then what? Sit around and twiddle our thumbs for a couple more months until 2.3 comes out? I bet if you'd ask the people here (and the formidine rift mystery which has gone on for MUCH longer), you'd find that most of them enjoy the process of trying to figure things out more than the actual end result of getting a solution. Why is it such a bad thing to have a legitimate challenge in the game? If you want easy puzzles, literally every other game on the planet offers that (and there are easy comms beacon puzzles in the bubble if you prefer that).

Again, if the puzzles were easier, then someone other than you would be getting to the solution way quicker than you would, leaving you with just the end result of having another alien site to visit. What exactly do you gain from that? Great, you get another shiny thing to look at for 15 whole minutes before moving on to something else...that's fun.

Whole communities have been built around difficult puzzles in this game...it might objectively be the best thing this game has going for it...and you seem to be perfectly okay with dumbing it down.

 

[n o o d l z]

Just this, there's been zero progress, only hints from RAM TAH, puzzles of course should have some difficulty, but when there is zero progress by 1000s of players over weeks, it's time to start questioning the validity of the puzzle.

- - - Updated - - -

Regarding my post, the simple point is we've not moved forward, the only reason we left the ruins to those systems is because RAM TAH said so, nothing at the ruins inspired us to go to those systems.

They waited a couple of months to see if we could figure it out...we didn't, so they dropped some hints. How is there anything wrong with that? Chances are, finding a second alien site is going to make it easier to solve the puzzle (assuming the layout is different). I've said it before, but I'll say it again...if you hedge towards the easy side, there's a serious risk of someone solving it a day after release and making it no fun for everyone. If you hedge towards the difficult side, you're going to have an engaged community of CMDRs working to solve it...and if they can't figure it out, you can easily drop some in game hints to move it along. Case in point, why aren't you guys working to solve the easy puzzles in the game if you enjoy that stuff do much? Oh right, because they've already been solved and it's no fun working on something that's already been figured out. And here you are trying to promote a puzzle that's easier to solve anyway.

 

[Pumabear8]

I'm convinced the puzzle was/is screwed up, it's why we had that forced CG from RAM TAH, and yes, it did feel like it was forced, we'd already been gathering data(alpha, gamma, and so on...) during the main mission, then suddenly RAM TAH instructs to deliver that data to him as part of a separate mission, why was he not taking the data from us in the first place? it all smells of convoluted messed up puzzle.

- - - Updated - - -

They waited a couple of months to see if we could figure it out...we didn't, so they dropped some hints. How is there anything wrong with that? Chances are, finding a second alien site is going to make it easier to solve the puzzle (assuming the layout is different). I've said it before, but I'll say it again...if you hedge towards the easy side, there's a serious risk of someone solving it a day after release and making it no fun for everyone. If you hedge towards the difficult side, you're going to have an engaged community of CMDRs working to solve it...and if they can't figure it out, you can easily drop some in game hints to move it along. Case in point, why aren't you guys working to solve the easy puzzles in the game if you enjoy that stuff do much? Oh right, because they've already been solved and it's no fun working on something that's already been figured out. And here you are trying to promote a puzzle that's easier to solve anyway.

So basically, 1000s of commanders were too thick to get it?, that's what I'd call a possibility, but not a probability.

 

[n o o d l z]

I'm convinced the puzzle was/is screwed up, it's why we had that forced CG from RAM TAH, and yes, it did feel like it was forced, we'd already been gathering data(alpha, gamma, and so on...) during the main mission, then suddenly RAM TAH instructs to deliver that data to him as part of a separate mission, why was he not taking the data from us in the first place? it all smells of convoluted messed up puzzle.

That's pretty easy to explain...Frontier thought someone was going to figure out the meaning behind the ruins. Months past and no one did, so they started up an in-game way of dropping hints to move the progress along. If we can't find the sites, they'll drop more hints. If we find the sites and still can't figure it out, they'll drop more hints. Make sense?

 

[CMDR Aurynn]

Okay. 2 more thoughts:

If the relic placements align and truly should represent the newly suggested systems, we can assume that the one in the "bottom" is the original ruins and the one within the largest structure is the one with XOP C22-17. Since it only aligns with the galaxy map when looking from the bottom of the galaxy plane up, I would assume that their prime direction is bottom or south. Not north like ours. Therefore the smaller round structure should have a familiarity with something in this system. And provide clues to the location of a second base within XO-P. At least which body. We can also assume that the structures were larger, that there also was a 4th relic and that much of the rest is simply destroyed by erosion or covered. Thats why we dont get any clues regarding the three other bases. AND that we should consider taking their 0 latitude at south poles.

As for their numerical system. I think they count in fact base 9. Large triangle representing 9. It does not add up with some stuff on the site though. It could also be base 7 or 8. Which is maybe equally flawed, but I am no mathematician. Just trying to brainstorm.

 

[mojododo]

Im just hoping that this second set of sites do actually exist in the game, not forgotton to be added up like the missing formidine bases/whatever was missing. (sorry didnt keep up with that one, didnt think the puzzles were what they are)

 

[Pumabear8]

That's pretty easy to explain...Frontier thought someone was going to figure out the meaning behind the ruins. Months past and no one did, so they started up an in-game way of dropping hints to move the progress along. If we can't find the sites, they'll drop more hints. If we find the sites and still can't figure it out, they'll drop more hints. Make sense?

If the puzzle is beyond every player, and they need to keep dropping hints, what's next, a big arrow with a sign saying "This way thickos!"; I'll happily and publicly say I was wrong if in the end they show the puzzle was solvable without hints.

 

[Justicar_Thorn]

The fact that there are 300 pages, most of which are productive theories and ideas, should tell you that tons of people are enjoying this. If this all got solved 2 months ago...then what? Sit around and twiddle our thumbs for a couple more months until 2.3 comes out? I bet if you'd ask the people here (and the formidine rift mystery which has gone on for MUCH longer), you'd find that most of them enjoy the process of trying to figure things out more than the actual end result of getting a solution. Why is it such a bad thing to have a legitimate challenge in the game? If you want easy puzzles, literally every other game on the planet offers that (and there are easy comms beacon puzzles in the bubble if you prefer that).

Again, if the puzzles were easier, then someone other than you would be getting to the solution way quicker than you would, leaving you with just the end result of having another alien site to visit. What exactly do you gain from that? Great, you get another shiny thing to look at for 15 whole minutes before moving on to something else...that's fun.

Whole communities have been built around difficult puzzles in this game...it might objectively be the best thing this game has going for it...and you seem to be perfectly okay with dumbing it down.

Did you even read what I said? because you didn't address what I said at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Just this, there's been zero progress, only hints from RAM TAH, puzzles of course should have some difficulty, but when there is zero progress by 1000s of players over weeks, it's time to start questioning the validity of the puzzle.

- - - Updated - - -

Regarding my post, the simple point is we've not moved forward, the only reason we left the ruins to those systems is because RAM TAH said so, nothing at the ruins inspired us to go to those systems.

Forum gods won't let me rep this so instead have this +1.

 

[OBYOZ]

Thanks to the CMDR who replied to me about the 50 data scans but an hour after searching with no luck Ram Tah sent me the ruins quest message so off i went.

Im glad that no one has found more ruins yet, I've been sat at here all day trying to decypher and looking for clues, and i think i have found 4 planets that are possible, but now im looking for some way to pinpoint a location on the surface. Im not leaving until i have a reasonable lead to go on. At the moment Im guessing the layout of the towers in groups of 18/3 etc are their counting method so im looking to find some coordinates in that. Can probably spend a few hours today on this.

Good luck to all

 

[Zuvuya42]

We know the guardians used a "catapult" to launch spacecraft, and we know their language was composed of glyphs with multiple levels of symbolic meaning, and if you put any credence into the Sapir-Worf hypothesis then language itself is what shapes our perception of, and interaction with, reality. It seems to me that the ruins are both functional and symbolic (as most everyone here has decided as well) just like the glyphs in their language. Meaning that the orientation of the structure and the geometries that compose its shape both change the meaning. Since they had a thing with 3s, maybe we could add a third layer of intrinsic and contextual meaning to the "glyph" of the ruins site: their orientation with the skymap at a given point in time.

Lets say the large landing pad in the ruins is also a launch pad for craft that would construct a new site. Since we have the location of at least one system with new ruins (out of four systems), maybe we could confirm the precise system by determining which star precisely aligns with the large pad, or rather, which system would have historically aligned with the pad first since the ruins were constructed.

In that same train of thought (site as glyph containing nested symbolic information) the landing/launch pad could also be a glyph with the same nested information (itself containing 3 layers/variables), so in this train of thought the composition of the launch pad itself would contain coordinates for the next site.

Or perhaps it is the obelisks aerial shape, number, and relation to other obelisk groups that contain the coordinates, as they may have been built after the fact of the initial launch. Perhaps we can only find coordinates for one other site from the first, and if the theoretical second is shaped like the first, we'd find the third (and fourth if it is significantly more complex) using a similar method of analysis applied to the second site, etc.

Or all of the above could be totally insane, or partially true. It is how i would design this puzzle, though.

 

[n o o d l z]

If the puzzle is beyond every player, and they need to keep dropping hints, what's next, a big arrow with a sign saying "This way thickos!"; I'll happily and publicly say I was wrong if in the end they show the puzzle was solvable without hints.

And likewise if it wasn't solvable from the start. But let's be real here...there's nothing that indicates this isn't solvable. We've got an alien site that very likely represents a map or guide of some sort...we just haven't figured out how to interpret it yet. And that's the way it should be, it was built by something completely unrelated to our species, it should look foreign and confusing and take a dedicated group of people to figure it out. There are still ancient civilizations on earth that thousands of people have studied and don't have a clear understanding on...even though it may be figured out at some point in the future.

And don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with feeling frustrated, I've had to step away from this multiple times to recharge. But I always come back for more. I'd rather try to solve an unsolveable puzzle than go look at the solution to a puzzle someone else already figured out any day.

 

[Grinvain]

Maybe we found the last site first? We foud it by "accident" (no offence). Which means moving on from here, there are no breadcrumbs. As said a "mechanism" was not followed and we skipped to the end of the story. The cg and the hint were put in place to put us back into the story. We are now looking for site one only and that one hints more clearly to the next and so on.

 

[Sikeksis]

This is likely me succumbing to planet skimming madness, but I passed a point as I was skimming and my mass lock came on then off. I reversed course and it came back on again. Is this normal or am I mad..mad...mad?

I ended up roughly where the alpha site ruins would be, but on IC 2391 sector ze-a d101 planet b3.

 

[OBYOZ]

Thanks to the CMDR who replied to me about the 50 data scans but an hour after searching with no luck Ram Tah sent me the ruins quest message so off i went.

Im glad that no one has found more ruins yet, I've been sat at here all day trying to decypher and looking for clues, and i think i have found 4 planets that are possible, but now im looking for some way to pinpoint a location on the surface. Im not leaving until i have a reasonable lead to go on. At the moment Im guessing the layout of the towers in groups of 18/3 etc are their counting method so im looking to find some coordinates in that. Can probably spend a few hours today on this.

Good luck to all

*Glad as in no one that just went on a blind hunt found them..

 

[JethroGuardian]

This is likely me succumbing to planet skimming madness, but I passed a point as I was skimming and my mass lock came on then off. I reversed course and it came back on again. Is this normal or am I mad..mad...mad?

I ended up roughly where the alpha site ruins would be, but on IC 2391 sector ze-a d101 planet b3.

Mass lock should toggle right at 2k from what I've seen, so maybe you were right near 2 and just went above and below it? If not then it sounds interesting.

 

[zarking]

The problem is.... We don't know if there even is a puzzle to solve.
The only things we know for sure are what we were told, how to get data from obelisks and that there are four other systems with ruins sites.

That's it. Nowhere has there been any hint that analysing the rest of the current site will reveal anything. I mean I'm sure the whole site is a big glyph, and it probably means something random like "we are the guardians, we will protect you (or kill you)".
I write this after weeks of trying every theory I can think of, scanning everything and even asking my clever maths friend's to look at it.

I think we need, at this stage, someone from FD or an engineer, to say "examine the ruins to find clues to locations of other sites" or "work out the secret of the ruins sites to find out more about the guardians". At the moment my fear is we've completed the only puzzle FD put in the site... The obelisk data one, and now we're just waiting on someone to randomly find something on a planet or maybe I'm just getting space crazy from scanning planets all day

 

[Pumabear8]

This is likely me succumbing to planet skimming madness, but I passed a point as I was skimming and my mass lock came on then off. I reversed course and it came back on again. Is this normal or am I mad..mad...mad?

I ended up roughly where the alpha site ruins would be, but on IC 2391 sector ze-a d101 planet b3.

What altitude? mass lock can jump around when around 2km altitude.