Elite / Frontier Thargoid took my cobra out in under 10 seconds

I still play FFE - flying the Thargoid ship, naturally.

I am intending on buying an Xbox One though to get in on the Elite Dangerous action (A PC capable of running the game would be more expensive for me) - but it won't be the same as playing the older games on PC.
 
Before you spend any hard-earned cash on ED be warned, the gameplay - in terms of the actual experience of playing the game - is nothing like the previous games, in which you can do whatever you want, at your own pace.

The biggest shock for me was not being allowed to fly my own ship - in ED the ships are only allowed a miniscule amount of motion, in any axis or plane, so it feels incredibly constrained, frustrating and dull if you're coming from FE2/FFE. None of the ships are allowed to yaw, but even worse, they're not allowed to fly anywhere either - no acceleration is allowed, under any circumstances (even in free-fall!).

Whereas in the previous games, the ships fly through space, in ED, space moves around the ship instead, which themselves are marooned virtually stationary without the Alcubierre drive (although ED calls it "frame-shift drive") - and so the feeling of flight is just not there - it feels totally unintuitive and exasperating trying to control the speed, and the FSD is all-or-nothing - so you can 'move' at warp speeds (in FSD), or at slow taxiing speeds (in what ED players tragically call "normal space"), but with nothing in-between.

So you can't skim across a planet surface and watch alien landscapes rip by at mach 5 while upside-down, for instance, or play with gravity and orbital mechanics - it is possible to 'orbit' very small low-mass bodies. at sufficiently high altitude, but it's still not proper orbit like in FE2/FFE - instead it locks you into a perfectly circular and fixed 'orbit', which you cannot adjust - so you can't make it more elliptical, or thus perform slingshot manoeuvres etc. And forget about playing with white dwarves or neutron stars etc. this way - that would require the ships to be free to move, which in ED they are most emphatically not.

The overall impression is of watching an interactive slideshow, but with an infuriatingly clunky and badly-designed interface, where none of the information you need is available, the traditional F-key mappings are gone, and data that needs to be displayed together are instead separated by umpteen different UI steps (ie. checking how much free space you have before accepting a cargo mission, for example).

The bulletin boards have been replaced by a clunky "duh, missions!" board, offering a small number of very samey missions from entirely wooden and unbelievable 'political' groups, who say the most bizarre things in weird convoluted ways, the missions themselves are inexplicably weird and impoverished of logic or rationality (the devs appear to have some kind of scatalogical obsession here, for some reason), and the lockup transitions, for everything are just devastating to the continuity of play we'd come to expect from any Elite title.

ED really isn't "Elite" in any meaningful way. The basic experience that you'll be spending most of your game-time doing, is staring at a dot, nudging the stick up a bit, left a bit, while time and distance meters count down in weird and inexplicable, totally unintuitive ways, conveying almost no useful information whatsoever. There aren't even proper heading reticles to line up on, or a basic autopilot - and of course, no time acceleration either - so the "main game" is simply staring catatonically at whatever distant dot you're trying to keep in the center of the screen, and waiting, waiting, waiting..

There's no proper external views either - just a "debug cam" that can't pan out 10 meters from your ship, and takes forever to rotate and pan around using the pitch and roll "flight" inputs.

I managed to persist with it for about a month; found a modest trading route and figured i'd try and make some credits to buy a ship that would allow for some fun - only to find that there aren't any - for all practical intents and purposes, all of the ships handle identically, unable to move or even rotate freely, in any axis or plane. Massively disappointed with what ED has to offer (nothing! Nothing at all, that you can't get from a slideshow, or a good session in proper Elite like the first three games), i was forced to give up on it and go back to FFE for my Elite fix.

AJ's version, on top of the Ittiz build, is currently the best, most faithful Elite out there. For their part, FD seem utterly oblivious to what's wrong, unable to understand their own games, what's good about Elite, and thus what's so naff and disappointing about ED, so it seems increasingly unlikely there will ever be a proper sequel. FFED3D is, for now, as good as it's going to get. And forget about Pioneer, like ED, it's gone off on some neurotic misguided tangent, straying irrecoverably from the thrills and spills of what Elite's all about.

If you've got cash to burn, you're welcome to find this all out for yourself. If not however, i would not recommend ED to anyone, under any circumstances. It's not Elite, it's certainly not fun or engaging, and as a fan of FFE you'll find it infuriatingly restrictive and falling apart at the seams with inane bloat, poor graphics and sound, atrocious lockup transitions, a contemptuous disregard for the previous games and science fiction / space flight generally. My advice: Avoid, avoid, avoid..
 
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Top post there, Bounder. I agree with pretty much everything you've written, both about FFE and Elite Dangerous.

I signed up for the ED Kickstarter with high hopes which were spoilt firstly when they announced that the flight model would be pitch and roll like the original Elite, rather than pitch and yaw like Frontier. Being old enough to remember buying Elite when it came out in 1984, I can also remember how I never truly got to grips with flying the ship, though I loved the game and its concept. When Frontier came out in 1993 I took to it like a duck to water, reaching genuine Elite combat rating in both that game and its successor. The second let-down with ED was that there were to be no planetary landings in the initial release. Horizons remedied that, of course, but only on airless worlds. It currently looks like landing on Earth-like planets is still a long way off.

Nevertheless, I signed up and pledged as much as my finances would allow, including the lifetime expansions, and I update the game as each new iteration and patch comes out. And I try, I really do, to like ED. But I always find myself being drawn back to Frontier, which these days means FFED3DAJ. To me, the x-factor is missing in ED, as well as some more glaring issues. Like you, I hate the awkward, tedious menus you have to click through. They're slow, they aren't intuitive and they frustrate me. Not only that, but despite flagging it up as a serious bug since the game was first released, the interval between clicking on the galaxy map menu item and the map actually appearing varies between 2 and 2½ minutes! The system map takes around a minute, usually. Waiting for the main menu to appear after docking can be about a minute as well. It's an absolute joy to go through all the options in FFE at top speed, by contrast.

Once out in space, I have to admit ED does look beautiful. But a few days ago I took on a passenger mission and when I selected the station after hyperspacing into the target system, it took over 30 minutes of real time to get there! It wasn't Alpha Centauri, by the way, which I already knew about. Talk about boring! I started watching tv on my tablet, made myself a coffee, phoned the wife, probably went to the loo as well, while the distance crawled down to the point where I could dock. Are they serious???

When I compare playing ED to playing FFE, I can only describe it as like walking through treacle. Everything is slow, everything is boring and I really struggle to motivate myself to play it, which can't be right. Hell, I can't even pause it when the doorbell rings if I'm out in space! :mad:

For me, Frontier really have gone in the wrong direction with ED. The forums show that plenty of people love it, which is great, but for me something pretty radical has to happen before it'll get anywhere near to FFE. On balance, if I knew how it was going to turn out, I wouldn't have pledged for the game, though I have bought some merchandise and all the fiction that came out. I'll still do that, because I love the Elite/Frontier concept, but unfortunately the game itself comes up short.
 
the interval between clicking on the galaxy map menu item and the map actually appearing varies between 2 and 2½ minutes! The system map takes around a minute, usually. Waiting for the main menu to appear after docking can be about a minute as well.
Huh? :eek:

If you replace minutes with seconds in your description, then it describes how I'm experiencing these features in E: D 98% of the time.

Something's definitely bugging your game - net connection or hardware? Or conflicting software?

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If you've got cash to burn, you're welcome to find this all out for yourself. If not however, i would not recommend ED to anyone, under any circumstances. It's not Elite, it's certainly not fun or engaging, and as a fan of FFE you'll find it infuriatingly restrictive and falling apart at the seams with inane bloat, poor graphics and sound, atrocious lockup transitions, a contemptuous disregard for the previous games and science fiction / space flight generally. My advice: Avoid, avoid, avoid..
Wow, you're a bitter one! :eek:

That aside, one glaring error in the quoted part of your rant I have to correct: you say E: D is not Elite, and that's a blatant lie - E: D is very much Elite, but it isn't Frontier (FE2 or FFE). :)
 
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Huh? :eek:

If you replace minutes with seconds in your description, then it describes how I'm experiencing these features in E: D 98% of the time.

Something's definitely bugging your game - net connection or hardware? Or conflicting software?

- - - Updated - - -


Wow, you're a bitter one! :eek:

That aside, one glaring error in the quoted part of your rant I have to correct: you say E: D is not Elite, and that's a blatant lie - E: D is very much Elite, but it isn't Frontier (FE2 or FFE). :)

An Elite tribute game, perhaps, though i'd class it more of an Oolite tribute.

But real Elite is based around full piloting freedom, which ED is fundamentally incompatible with. That was classic Elite's appeal - it's not that monochrome vector graphics are superior to full colour HD, but rather the fact that, at the time, black and white 3D was a revolutionary advance that made 3D spaceflight possible. Likewise, being stuck with pitch, roll and a speed limit wasn't its raison d'etre, unconstrained spaceflight was. So if your argument is that ED's technical failings qualify it as "faithful" to the original, i couldn't disagree more. The core game is getting as close as possible to free flight, which is why FE2 and FFE were such logical natural progressions, removing even more limits, giving you even more piloting freedom.

If ED offered yet more of the same kinds of advances as FE2 did over classic Elite, but only had monochrome wireframe graphics, then, my friend, you may have a point... Although even then, Elite has always broken new ground graphically as much as in space sandboxing freedom.

And if brevity is the soul of wit, then i'm a droning dullard... but so is ED; Elite's vibe was always its responsiveness to your wandering pace of play - it caters to the slow scenic route, but also the flying-by-the-seat-of-your-pants arcade rager... jamming your finger back onto the 'J' key even while your last victim is still vaporising, tearing head-on into the next pack of mambas or vipers etc. The function key mappings were logical and consistent, right up to FE2, so you could instantly get the info you needed as you needed it. DB talked about "recapturing the immediacy of the original games", and has promptly gone and done the polar opposite of that, giving us a massively restricted slideshow.

You could make an Elite diorama - paint the inside of the box black with all little LED stars, and papier-máché ships with a lovely little cobra mkIII center stage... but it wouldn't be 'Elite', would it? I mean all the paint would rub off on your hands. It'd never be able to recreate the dynamic pacing of the previous games.

ED is anathema to the spirit of Elite. It is literally the archetypal, definitive caricature of everything Elite isn't, it's an offensive effigy of Elite, a crass popinjay, a false pretender. It's a 180° reversal on Elite's defining ethos. The exact opposite of piloting freedom, seamlessness and reactive pacing - you're not allowed to even accelerate in (ahem) "normal space", there's transitions for the transitions, every one's a lockup, and you're forced to tag along at its pace in every endeavor. The interaction that is allowed is dull, linear and robotic. Without natural speed and momentum to control, and with no autopilot, external cams or time acceleration, the majority of player input is simply dot-tracking, interspersed with waiting, to do more of the same.

The different disjointed modes and their egregious lockup transitions are just shocking - hand-holding you through the stiffly choreographed set pieces like a Pyongyang tour host, neither straying from the ordained path nor skipping any of the pomp proceedings are allowed. You may not apply thrust to your ship. You cannot look out of a side or rear view, or see your ship properly from outside. You cannot engage autopilot while browsing maps or other systems. You may nudge the stick up a bit, left a bit for 30 mins at a time - and if that sounds appealing you'll be pleased there's no heading reticle to line up on - and you may pitch and roll within a very narrow range of allowed taxiing velocities, demarked by the 'blue zone' on your throttle which you must always pay strict attention to and never stray beyond its bounds (the blue zone boundaries are there for your benefit, so must and will be respected, and no deviation can or will be possible). "Supercruise", "orbital cruise", "glide mode", "limited attack angle", "optimal mass", "top speed", nitro-boost, all of this guff is sacrilege, utter apostasy to everything Elite stood for. Opposites land. Worst case scenario. If you like seamless free spaceflight, with some low-consequence arcade blasting mixed in.. 'yuh, sorry, that's not supported, anymore'.

What's been dropped from ED is everything that stitched the previous games into a cohesive whole, greater than the sum of their parts. Instead of further developing the game, insofar as making the same kinds of advances it has always made over its prequels, it's gone the other way, for the lowest-common denominators defined by the low-expectations target MP demographic and the inherent restrictions of the networking system. ED is aimed squarely at gamers who think spaceships have speed limits, that inertia is velocity-dependent, that looking and moving in different directions requires a PhD, and that autopilot and external views are 'mersion-breaking win-buttons. On that count, the game's a runaway success, if a shamefully low hanging one. But that's little consolation for disenfranchised fans of the series..
 
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ED redux:

For a general overview of what travel in ED is like, just keep counting to ten and clicking the button below until it gets boring, or you need to go to the toilet or whatever:

BAM!
sun-nasa-525.jpg

STAR!

IN YOUR FACE!
 
An Elite tribute game, perhaps, though i'd class it more of an Oolite tribute.

But real Elite is based around full piloting freedom, which ED is fundamentally incompatible with.
That was classic Elite's appeal - it's not that monochrome vector graphics are superior to full colour HD, but rather the fact that, at the time, black and white 3D was a revolutionary advance that made 3D spaceflight possible. Likewise, being stuck with pitch, roll and a speed limit wasn't its raison d'etre, unconstrained spaceflight was. So if your argument is that ED's technical failings qualify it as "faithful" to the original, i couldn't disagree more. The core game is getting as close as possible to free flight, which is why FE2 and FFE were such logical natural progressions, removing even more limits, giving you even more piloting freedom.

If ED offered yet more of the same kinds of advances as FE2 did over classic Elite, but only had monochrome wireframe graphics, then, my friend, you may have a point... Although even then, Elite has always broken new ground graphically as much as in space sandboxing freedom.

And if brevity is the soul of wit, then i'm a droning dullard... but so is ED; Elite's vibe was always its responsiveness to your wandering pace of play - it caters to the slow scenic route, but also the flying-by-the-seat-of-your-pants arcade rager... jamming your finger back onto the 'J' key even while your last victim is still vaporising, tearing head-on into the next pack of mambas or vipers etc. The function key mappings were logical and consistent, right up to FE2, so you could instantly get the info you needed as you needed it. DB talked about "recapturing the immediacy of the original games", and has promptly gone and done the polar opposite of that, giving us a massively restricted slideshow.

You could make an Elite diorama - paint the inside of the box black with all little LED stars, and papier-máché ships with a lovely little cobra mkIII center stage... but it wouldn't be 'Elite', would it? I mean all the paint would rub off on your hands. It'd never be able to recreate the dynamic pacing of the previous games.

ED is anathema to the spirit of Elite. It is literally the archetypal, definitive caricature of everything Elite isn't, it's an offensive effigy of Elite, a crass popinjay, a false pretender. It's a 180° reversal on Elite's defining ethos. The exact opposite of piloting freedom, seamlessness and reactive pacing - you're not allowed to even accelerate in (ahem) "normal space", there's transitions for the transitions, every one's a lockup, and you're forced to tag along at its pace in every endeavor. The interaction that is allowed is dull, linear and robotic. Without natural speed and momentum to control, and with no autopilot, external cams or time acceleration, the majority of player input is simply dot-tracking, interspersed with waiting, to do more of the same.

The different disjointed modes and their egregious lockup transitions are just shocking - hand-holding you through the stiffly choreographed set pieces like a Pyongyang tour host, neither straying from the ordained path nor skipping any of the pomp proceedings are allowed. You may not apply thrust to your ship. You cannot look out of a side or rear view, or see your ship properly from outside. You cannot engage autopilot while browsing maps or other systems. You may nudge the stick up a bit, left a bit for 30 mins at a time - and if that sounds appealing you'll be pleased there's no heading reticle to line up on - and you may pitch and roll within a very narrow range of allowed taxiing velocities, demarked by the 'blue zone' on your throttle which you must always pay strict attention to and never stray beyond its bounds (the blue zone boundaries are there for your benefit, so must and will be respected, and no deviation can or will be possible). "Supercruise", "orbital cruise", "glide mode", "limited attack angle", "optimal mass", "top speed", nitro-boost, all of this guff is sacrilege, utter apostasy to everything Elite stood for. Opposites land. Worst case scenario. If you like seamless free spaceflight, with some low-consequence arcade blasting mixed in.. 'yuh, sorry, that's not supported, anymore'.

What's been dropped from ED is everything that stitched the previous games into a cohesive whole, greater than the sum of their parts. Instead of further developing the game, insofar as making the same kinds of advances it has always made over its prequels, it's gone the other way, for the lowest-common denominators defined by the low-expectations target MP demographic and the inherent restrictions of the networking system. ED is aimed squarely at gamers who think spaceships have speed limits, that inertia is velocity-dependent, that looking and moving in different directions requires a PhD, and that autopilot and external views are 'mersion-breaking win-buttons. On that count, the game's a runaway success, if a shamefully low hanging one. But that's little consolation for disenfranchised fans of the series..
Well, that's what you get when you cram multiplayer into a concept that's 100% single player.

I'm not buying all your points, but on some can agree to some degree.

So, you hate E: D and I like E: D (with gripes), no worries. :)
Happy hunting for the "Frontier 3"!
 
Well, that's what you get when you cram multiplayer into a concept that's 100% single player.

Not true - look at Goldeneye on the N64 - that was always intended to be a singleplayer game and one of the team decided to see if he could put in a multiplayer mode. It was only when they realised how much fun they were having with it that they decided to have it as a full feature in the game. As such the multiplayer was only shoe-horned in over the final couple of months.

Anyway, it's disappointing to see the path that Elite Dangerous appears to have taken - I knew that the time acceleration would be gone due to the multiplayer component anyway, but surely there's got to be better ways of speeding things up for players and freeing up the ship movement to be truer to the older games.
 
Moved to Elite forum by the same Thargoid.

;)

What does T.J. stand for?

Thargoid Jim?



Before you spend any hard-earned cash on ED be warned, the gameplay - in terms of the actual experience of playing the game - is nothing like the previous games, in which you can do whatever you want, at your own pace. negativity, negativity, negativity etc. etc.

I disagree with almost everything Bounder said in his wall of text, except for some of his dots and commas.
He must have a very bad hair day.

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err.. Supercruise?

Exactly.
I wonder what game he has actually been playing.
 
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Back in the day when I played Elite on the Amiga.

This was blatant click bait.

Winters here, and I'm just so damn impatient about starting the next interstellar war LOL.

How the he'll could ya lose ya ship in ten seconds, I used to go hunting em on a stock Cobra. Heck it was Hunting season back then at 50Cr a pop it was easy money ;)
 
How the he'll could ya lose ya ship in ten seconds, I used to go hunting em on a stock Cobra. Heck it was Hunting season back then at 50Cr a pop it was easy money ;)

In Elite Plus' generally very easy space lanes it almost always cause sort of minor adrenaline burst when your Cobra makes relatively rare, but sudden misjump to the witchspace. Very often you lose few precious seconds to "shock effect" caused by the "novel" situation of misjump. Very often it's destined to be losing game as the misjump places you beyond possibilities to make further hyperjumps to get safe. When that possibility is available, and you survive from initial "shock" it's relatively easy to kill enough thargoids to get Nav.Comps repaired for the escape jump. Hanging in the witch space unnecessarily long increases changes of untimely death dramatically.

50 Credits bounty feels awesome in given circumstances, and gathering 500-1000 Credits profits with successful escape jump causes desired high feelings of self-gratification. XD

Does ED cause such feelings for ED commanders?

(I've watched hours and hours ED gameplaying videos, but nothing gives me an incentive to get access to it. It lacks soul. Somehow.)

Generally, I have very fond memories from the times when a playability of a game was primary concern when it came to an evaluation of what is good or excellent game. Those old good golden days are gone by long time ago.
 
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I can't wrap my head around much of the negativity that was posted in this thread.

ED IS NOT ELITE!

20 years has passed, at least on Earth it has!

The whole dynamic for which players expect from a game has evolved, back in the early 90's multiplayer consisted of picking up that 25lb block of silicon and metal carrying it to a friends house and plugging a coaxial 10Mb cable into the BNC connector on your NIC card.

Sadly some folks appear to be stuck in a time warp; possibly they failed to maintain the integrity of their warp drive and thus got spun across the galaxy and are still searching for a way home.

So again ED is not Elite, you now pop out of warp next to the sun rather than in the armpit of deep space, however not you don't have the ability to hit x8 fast forward and arrive at Mars High in a matter of seconds, no now you have to actually be a pilot and fly there...this is because it is hard to reconcile one player flying a x1 gameplay speed and then Mr Impatient going at x4 or x8, etc.

All this talk about lateral thrusters and such is incorrect and misleading; you can do that but not when going at speed (in Supercruise). But that is only like trying to yaw at x8...I hate to visualise how that would go as you're trying to dock!

In a nutshell, if your expecting to play FFE with modern graphics then it's not really for you, but if you're looking to play FFE with modern graphics then you should give it a go! - Yes the contradiction was intentional!

The biggest change between the two versions (or "games" as some may argue) is that when you shut FFE off the game halted, come back 2 real-world weeks later and everything is/was exactly as you left it...with ED you may be away for just a couple of days ( or even hours) and the markets have all changed, BB missions have come and gone, the game never stops progressing; it's like going to work, some days things are as you left them and on other days everything (the markets, etc) have been turned upside down.

So give the game a shot, especially on the Xbox, since the standup cost of an Xbox + game is way less than an optimal PC gaming rig.
 
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