oh the grief continues...

[Cosmos]

I should have phrased it a little differently. Apologies

Okay fair enough.

Point still stands that your targets won't understand the rules of the situation as you are setting them up

Hmm.. I can understand that if someone just starts attacking straight away but what about when someone uses the cargo scanner on them? You suggest piracy isn't implemented yet but I would suggest it is to an extent.
What is the cargo scanner for otherwise?

 

[Zalamael]

the thing i don't get is:

if i'm supporting the idea of free PvP, everyone in "All group", piracy and overall freedom of play...why do this at this stage?
everyone knows what kind of threads it causes...and FD is watching.

in the end it will harm the "freedom of play", support the "PvP opt out" faction and lead to new restrictions.

Probably because it requires more data and development time to get it right. Better to do it now when it doesn't matter as much than leave it until the last minute and come up short.

 

[Jorlin]

Probably because it requires more data and development time to get it right. Better to do it now when it doesn't matter as much than leave it until the last minute and come up short.

i think there is no valuable data to be found at the moment since defensive forces or any other punishments are not in place yet.
what data should that be?

Edit:
If i was against PvP at all, i'd load up my endless missiles and shoot everything in sight right before the most frequented stations. This would generate the press i'd wish for. Of course i'd quit out when attacked.
Uprise high, FD reacts, point for me.

 

[Zalamael]

i think there is no valuable data to be found at the moment since defensive forces or any other punishments are not in place yet.
what data should that be?

Player vs player balancing being the big one. They need to evaluate the effectiveness of the weapons and ships against each other. For example, the new Hauler might be underpowered at the moment, and might receive a buff to hull strength. Another example is the recent nerf to gimbal weapons, no doubt caused by their low skill floor but high effectiveness vs other players etc.

If the first iteration had been single player mode, the only data they would have available would be players vs NPCs, which isn't a good way of balancing for PvP. Any PvP game should always be balanced for PvP first, with PvE built around that. Doing it the other way tends to cause balance issues that get abused. Better to get all of that out of the way now while there are fewer players than at a later date when the doors are opened. If you think there is a lot of whining going on now, just wait until there are 10 times the current number of players.

 

[Jorlin]

sorry, i think i edited my post while you were writing

 

[Jorlin]

Player vs player balancing being the big one. They need to evaluate the effectiveness of the weapons and ships against each other. For example, the new Hauler might be underpowered at the moment, and might receive a buff to hull strength. Another example is the recent nerf to gimbal weapons, no doubt caused by their low skill floor but high effectiveness vs other players etc.

If the first iteration had been single player mode, the only data they would have available would be players vs NPCs, which isn't a good way of balancing for PvP. Any PvP game should always be balanced for PvP first, with PvE built around that. Doing it the other way tends to cause balance issues that get abused. Better to get all of that out of the way now while there are fewer players than at a later date when the doors are opened. If you think there is a lot of whining going on now, just wait until there are 10 times the current number of players.

of course you are right. PvP balancing is absolutely important.
but it's enough to kill two or three haulers to get some facts...not sitting around the stations the whole evening (or days) shooting everything in sight.

the test of "no fire zone" and range of station defense goes on since....alpha3?

Well, actually i should not be bothered at all.
I can live with every nerf to PvP that might happen.
And i don't care for "near station" attacks personally.

Just wanted to throw in, that it might hurt the cause of the PvP/piracy faction.

 

[Erik Marcaigh]

For everyone getting griefed, just keep personal KOS Lists. Not much else we can do at the moment.

 

[Lt.Bishop]

woah dude, give me some credits! I saw how much you had

 

[Maxeren]

Just to clarify... killing someone once is NOT... I repeat NOT griefing..

Doing it constantly at the same location is...

 

[NoirWolf]

Just to clarify... killing someone once is NOT... I repeat NOT griefing..

Doing it constantly at the same location is...

Just to clarify griefing in a beta is impossible because progress does not carry over in most cases and like it or not them doing something you dislike and you reporting it could, depending what is happening IE combat exploit, be much more valuable testing than trying out x,y,z ship is.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Player vs player balancing being the big one. They need to evaluate the effectiveness of the weapons and ships against each other. .

totally agree!!!

with the small print of, this is only really valuable where both commanders know they are entering a pvp, otherwise any result is meaningless.

ie, I could be in an eagle, fully loaded, and i could kill 10 cobras in a row because I picked ships with their weaopons retracted, or ships already heavily damaged and engaged in a tough battle with the AI.

BUT, does my (hypothetical) 10 kills to no losses vs cobras mean that the eagle is OP and the cobra needs nerfing??? No not at all.

on the other hand, if there was a continual trend that in 1 v 1 balanced pvp the eagle consistently bests a cobra, then yes, maybe changes would have to be made.

either way, mindless ganking adds nothing to the balancing of the ships imo. As this is a beta and we are "testing" then the only way to really know what is what is with consensual PvP and organising who has what loadouts and what ships.

 

[Maxeren]

Just to clarify griefing in a beta is impossible because progress does not carry over in most cases and like it or not them doing something you dislike and you reporting it could, depending what is happening IE combat exploit, be much more valuable testing than trying out x,y,z ship is.

I know.. and i agree.. thats what im trying to say in my own wierd way

Lost 60k worth of cargo and my hauler yesterday to a missile wielding anaconda outside freeport yesterday, but im not crying over it. **** happens and this is beta.. get used to it because it will happen at release to.

always wondered if people complain as much if they get killed by an NPC pirate ripping them out of supercruise.

 

[Lt.Bishop]

I know.. and i agree.. thats what im trying to say in my own wierd way

Lost 60k worth of cargo and my hauler yesterday to a missile wielding anaconda outside freeport yesterday, but im not crying over it. **** happens and this is beta.. get used to it because it will happen at release to.

always wondered if people complain as much if they get killed by an NPC pirate ripping them out of super cruise.

The only grief I've encountered has been within meters of the entrance/exit to stations; Testing the game out fully involves much more than sitting in a damn station for ages waiting for people with superior ships and fire power to leave before they destroy your ship.

I don't really care that much for progression in the game right now due to possible resets in the future but I would like to test ships in different situations and environments to help give an opinion of any changes.

Obviously, grief doesn't come on a constant, everyday but when it happens it's annoying! You may say you don't get annoyed but I can bet you a bunch that if i sat outside a station that you're about to leave, with myself in a cobra ing rockets at you every time you try to leave, you're going to get annoyed at me for wasting your time.

If FD expanded the size of the no fire zone which is minuscule, people would at least be able to leave stations unharmed and have enough space to enter super cruise. The stations aren't battle zones, they have no fire zones for a reason. if FD wanted people to fight there they wouldn't have no fire zones.

Away from stations people can come at me all they want and I even want people to come get me but outside stations, nope.

 

[Maxeren]

You may say you don't get annoyed but I can bet you a bunch that if i sat outside a station that you're about to leave, with myself in a cobra ing rockets at you every time you try to leave, you're going to get annoyed at me for wasting your time.

No.. see thats where people are different... i know i am testing a game right now and that police etc. isn't implemented so i brush it off, even if you sat there ramming 1000 missiles down my thought.. No matter how many countermeasures FD come up for the release, someone will find a way to grief other players. Its unavoidable, sorry.

Designing the game from the perspective of people complaining isn't a very optimal route either, because then you end up with a game where sneezing in the wrong direction gets you killed even if you didn't mean too. We get caged in protective countermeasures to prevent people from getting shot at.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Designing the game from the perspective of people complaining isn't a very optimal route either, because then you end up with a game where sneezing in the wrong direction gets you killed even if you didn't mean too.

If the design aim is to achieve complaints from both sides of any balancing decision, in proportion to the respective populations, then it can work - it's a mutual dissatisfaction principle - please no-one!

 

[Maxeren]

If the design aim is to achieve complaints from both sides of any balancing decision, in proportion to the respective populations, then it can work - it's a mutual dissatisfaction principle - please no-one!

Well the nature of the game is MP, so that speaks for the pvp side of things more than pve. Since you can't prevent human nature and the satisfaction someone gets of blowing someone or something up. There will always be griefers/pirates/killers no matter many things FD implement to prevent this.

 

[NoirWolf]

The only grief I've encountered has been within meters of the entrance/exit to stations; Testing the game out fully involves much more than sitting in a damn station for ages waiting for people with superior ships and fire power to leave before they destroy your ship.

I don't really care that much for progression in the game right now due to possible resets in the future but I would like to test ships in different situations and environments to help give an opinion of any changes.

Obviously, grief doesn't come on a constant, everyday but when it happens it's annoying! You may say you don't get annoyed but I can bet you a bunch that if i sat outside a station that you're about to leave, with myself in a cobra ing rockets at you every time you try to leave, you're going to get annoyed at me for wasting your time.

If FD expanded the size of the no fire zone which is minuscule, people would at least be able to leave stations unharmed and have enough space to enter super cruise. The stations aren't battle zones, they have no fire zones for a reason. if FD wanted people to fight there they wouldn't have no fire zones.

Away from stations people can come at me all they want and I even want people to come get me but outside stations, nope.

For a Rogue Trader you sure do seem intent on spreading the heresy of non-ticket and complain on the forums -you notice the inquisitorial seal on the aquilla he has around his neck- I needn't tell you what would happen should your heresies find....fertile soil to grow in -your eye flicks to his hand...a delicate, raven clawed powerglove can just be made out from the sleeve and glove-.

 

[Thorn Black]

I want the game be without griefers as much as it is possible for various reasons including selfish aswell. Though I will probally be a pirate with bad reputation known in law systems for sure. But that doesnt change the fact.

Right now I would propose to increase the weapons power on station cos theyre like a spit into a sea on someones shields.

<taking a sip from a bottle of rum> Yarr ...

 

[Robert Maynard]

I want the game be without griefers as much as it is possible for various reasons including selfish aswell. Though I will probally be a pirate with bad reputation known in law systems for sure. But that doesnt change the fact.

Right now I would propose to increase the weapons power on station cos theyre like a spit into a sea on someones shields.

<taking a sip from a bottle of rum> Yarr ...

Me too.... Me too....

Multiple turreted Class 12 Beam Laser emplacements on the exterior of the stations with a range of at least 20km.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Well the nature of the game is MP, so that speaks for the pvp side of things more than pve. Since you can't prevent human nature and the satisfaction someone gets of blowing someone or something up. There will always be griefers/pirates/killers no matter many things FD implement to prevent this.

I think hard core PVPer doesn't find satisfaction in killing blow, but in winning a difficult fight, or fighting against the odds. Those guys will do piracy as in-game rules will allow it, and it will be fun to watch.

Those just wanting to bust some newcomer in Sidewinder will get bitter part of the deal - police "escorts", huge bounties, and will leave ED soon enough after introducing these rules. And maybe some of them will just man up, see it as the challenge, and will become more grown ups in their actions.