General / Off-Topic Brexit: MPs overwhelmingly back Article 50 bill by 498 votes to 114

Cosmo · Feb 2, 2017

Brexit: MPs overwhelmingly back Article 50 bill

MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Prime Minister Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way.

They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.

But the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled.

The bill now faces further scrutiny in the Commons and the House of Lords before it can become law.

The prime minister has set a deadline of 31 March for invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, getting official talks with the EU started. The bill returns to the Commons next week.

which voters opted by 51.9% to 48.1% in favour of Brexit.

Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, a leading Leave campaigner, called the Commons result "absolutely momentous". Speaking on Facebook, he added: "We may be leaving the EU treaties. We are not leaving Europe."

The UK would "forge a new identity" and make "an amazingly positive contribution" to Europe, he said.

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[video=youtube;0zFAvzf0Mv0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zFAvzf0Mv0[/video]

[video=youtube;iVoNcTS4Rb4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVoNcTS4Rb4[/video]

Bomba Luigi · Feb 2, 2017

I like how you posted a video about Scotish people wanting to break free from the Kingdom, very sneaky

Cosmo · Feb 2, 2017

Bomba Luigi said:
I like how you posted a video about Scotish people wanting to break free from the Kingdom, very sneaky

Well that's symbolic for the UK reclaiming sovereignty from the EU superstate.

FuzzySpider · Feb 2, 2017

Yep. Braveheart very appropriate.

Now the spinelessness of Westminster has been revealed in all its terrible glory the Scottish people are definitely going to leave the UK, and Ireland looks like it will reunify.

The UK is finished. It will be England/Wales.

Yaffle · Feb 2, 2017

I don't think it was a surprise to anyone. It would seem appropriate to vote the way your constituency voted in the referendum at least.

Also, I assume the video is a nod to imminent departure of Scotland from the Union?

Frank · Feb 2, 2017

FuzzySpider said:
Yep. Braveheart very appropriate.

Now the spinelessness of Westminster has been revealed in all its terrible glory the Scottish people are definitely going to leave the UK, and Ireland looks like it will reunify.

The UK is finished. It will be England/Wales.

The split between Scotland and England is going to be smooth and painless now that Theresa May went over to court Trump, and that ghoulish "victory" from Boris Johnson where English immigrants were exempt from the USA ban. It has shown us that England is something very toxic and we need to amputate now.

But Ireland... oh gawd!

Genar-Hofoen · Feb 2, 2017

LOL!

Listen.

Scottish here. In Scotland.

Scotland isn't going anywhere. We had our Independence referendum in 2014, and voted to remain part of the United Kingdom.

And the United Kingdom voted for Brexit.

There's also no appetite for another referendum in Scotland. Poll after poll is showing the majority of Scottish voters do not want another indyref.

And it'll take permission from the UK Govt. to even allow another referendum - this isn't something that the horrible Sturgeon can call herself.

So please, enough with the talk about Scotland having another referendum/breaking from the UK. Not going to happen folks.

And I'm glad of it!

FuzzySpider · Feb 2, 2017

Unless Scotland has a monarchy government and you happen to be king I think you'll find it isn't just in your hands.

I also think you'll find the fight to remain in the EU is far from over. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Genar-Hofoen · Feb 2, 2017

We're getting out of the EU and I'm looking forward to it.

Yaffle · Feb 2, 2017

Genar-Hofoen said:
We're getting out of the EU and I'm looking forward to it.

Which bit?

Patrick_68000 · Feb 2, 2017

It is the triumphant democracy. The sovereign people is respected in its decisions

Lianachan · Feb 2, 2017

[video=youtube;ZWphqA1Slrw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWphqA1Slrw[/video]

- - - Updated - - -

FuzzySpider said:
Unless Scotland has a monarchy government and you happen to be king I think you'll find it isn't just in your hands.

I also think you'll find the fight to remain in the EU is far from over. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Do you mean the fight for the UK to remain in the UK, or for iScotland to remain in the EU?

FuzzySpider · Feb 2, 2017

Lianachan said:
Do you mean the fight for the UK to remain in the UK, or for iScotland to remain in the EU?

Both. This is far from over (although I think Scotlands departure is now inevitable no matter what happens, they won't trust Westminister ever again).

Lianachan · Feb 2, 2017

FuzzySpider said:
Both. This is far from over.

I think the latter would be considerably more easy than the former. The Tories have painted the UK into a corner through their pursuit of the xenophobic UKIP voter and Alf Garnet types.

JeffRyan · Feb 2, 2017

I actually respect Westminster here, this is something a majority of MPs don't personally want, but they voted as they felt they should representing their people.

Lianachan · Feb 2, 2017

JeffRyan said:
I actually respect Westminster here, this is something a majority of MPs don't personally want, but they voted as they felt they should representing their people.

Yup, only one (out of fifty nine) Scottish MP voted against the result of the referendum in their constituency - but he's a Tory, who's already said he represents the UK Gov, not Scotland, so that wasn't a surprise.

Patrick_68000 · Feb 2, 2017

JeffRyan said:
I actually respect Westminster here, this is something a majority of MPs don't personally want, but they voted as they felt they should representing their people.

Yes, the EU should be inspired by this example. This magnificent tribute to the participatory democracy of the people

Robert Maynard · Feb 2, 2017

Genar-Hofoen said:
Scottish here. In Scotland.

You're not the only one.

Genar-Hofoen said:
Scotland isn't going anywhere. We had our Independence referendum in 2014, and voted to remain part of the United Kingdom.

And the United Kingdom voted for Brexit.

We voted 55%/45% to stay part of the UK, at least in part, due to the scaremongering about being unable to join the EU as an independent state.

The 62%/38% remain vote casts the slimmer independence referendum majority in rather a different light, in my opinion, now that we're being taken out of the EU by England and Wales.

FuzzySpider · Feb 2, 2017

JeffRyan said:
I actually respect Westminster here, this is something a majority of MPs don't personally want, but they voted as they felt they should representing their people.

Hypothetical:

Aircraft pilots. There are three of them up front of Easyjet Flight ENG2316. And they decide that the best thing for the aeroplane is for it to have its engines on.

Now let's say that some people in the back decide that the engines are way too noisy, and they don't need engines anymore. They're sick of engines, they don't want engines. Just over half of the passengers demand the engines be switched off.

Question; would you respect the pilots decision to, against their own personal feelings regarding the necessity of engines, and against the wishes of the almost half who didn't want the engines off, switch off the engines and plummet into the shark infested waters below?

The entire point of a representative democracy is that suitably qualified and rational people act as a bullwark against populism of this sort. Hence the reason we don't have such barbaric practices as execution, public flogging etc. Parliament has not only failed in its duty, it has failed to justify its existence. The vote to return sovereignty to Parliament has, quite ironically, slashed the throat of parliamentary sovereignty.

The rammifications of this vote could be dire. Is the country governed by debating in the house of commons? Are members of parliament going to vote according to their conscience and the good arguments of people in the house of commons? Or, instead, are we going to be ruled based on what the Daily Mail might say about things the next day? Are members going to vote to simply avoid a bad headline?

Genar-Hofoen · Feb 2, 2017

Robert Maynard said:
You're not the only one.

We voted 55%/45% to stay part of the UK, at least in part, due to the scaremongering about being unable to join the EU as an independent state.

The 62%/38% remain vote casts the slimmer independence referendum majority in rather a different light, in my opinion, now that we're being taken out of the EU by England and Wales.

It really doesn't matter. Scotland had its chance. It had its "Once in a generation opportunity", as the SNP said this was in 2014.

It doesn't matter if the SNP say circumstances have changed with the Brexit vote. They might have some semblance of a point there. Unfortunately for the nationalists, there simply is no appetite amongst Scottish voters for another IndyRef, and the case for another one is extremely weak at best.

I am not a nationalist. I'm both a Scottish patriot and a British patriot - the two are not incompatible. So I get disheartened when I see people write language like "taken out of the EU by England and Wales" - it's a very good way to create conflict.

I think there can be a lot of danger in Nationalism, and I think Scottish Nationalism is very, very dangerous. I also think that there is a cognitive dissonance in people who think there isn't something very odd with wanting independence for Scotland but then surrendering that independence to the EU. It just doesn't make sense.