The British press, anxious, estimated, Saturday June 28 that the country was about to leave the European Union after the failure of prime minister David Cameron to block the appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker, at the presidency of the European Commission. Your opinion ?
General / Off-Topic The United Kingdom "close to the exit " ?
- Thread starter Patrick_68000
- Start date
At a time when Europe needs a proactive lead for the Union, Juncker is a waste of space as an appointment. The guy is capable, but a pen-pusher. The EU is going to be marking time for the next few years - to it's detriment.
Unfortunately Cameron completely mishandled the situation, but he didn't convey his message in a way that would garner him support.
It's egg on DCs face, but after making the mistake of taking the personal angle regarding Juncker (DC doesn't like him/his politics but that wasn't the relevant point), I don't see DC making the same mistake again by turning a personal blunder into a national one.
Plus, before the UK would consider leaving the EU, we have already been promised a referendum (though it's date remains nebulous) and I don't see any move for the UK until the situation with Scotland has been clarified.
Unfortunately Cameron completely mishandled the situation, but he didn't convey his message in a way that would garner him support.
It's egg on DCs face, but after making the mistake of taking the personal angle regarding Juncker (DC doesn't like him/his politics but that wasn't the relevant point), I don't see DC making the same mistake again by turning a personal blunder into a national one.
Plus, before the UK would consider leaving the EU, we have already been promised a referendum (though it's date remains nebulous) and I don't see any move for the UK until the situation with Scotland has been clarified.
A little bit of background - probably the majority of UK politicians believe the EU is a good thing in the final analysis, but a large chunk of the Tory party is fanatically opposed to it, and would happily burn the party to the ground if they thought it would get us out. Those people aren't as crazy as I just made them sound, but like all fanatics they're not particularly good at converting moderates to their cause, making our European debate somewhat dysfunctional. From abroad, that probably makes us look like crazy people that make impossible demands one year then come back cap in hand the next.
As Hamerstein says, David Cameron has promised an EU referendum, although personally I suspect that's a local political ploy. Britain will probably have another coalition government after the next election, but the Tory party needs some time out of government to tear itself apart over Europe (as they do once a decade). By promising a referendum the other parties would have trouble supporting, he can politely rule himself out of a future coalition while making himself look credible going into their next civil war.
For what it's worth, my current opinion is that in principle Britain belongs in a monetary union but not a social one, and since our politicians have shown no interest in giving us a balanced argument, I generally look to Turkey's bid to join the EU as the only meaningful data point about the sort of EU we're actually getting.
I'd observe that the Labour party haven't ruled out a referendum, but their approach is that they'd create a mechanism where no further power could be transferred from the UK Gov to Brussels without one.
Effectively they'd be forcing themselves into a corner if they backed down in power transfer debates, so a referendum is unlikely.
As Andrew points out though, much of the Euro stance is party political rather than properly governmental.
I think there are a lot of issues with Europe that could be tweaked and fixed, but I hate this kneejerk reaction of "must pull out". I think most Britons are completely in the dark about just how catastrophic that would be for British trade.
Biggest thing I want to see is an end to all the European corruption. MEP expenses, farm subsidies, lack of transparency, lobbying, plutocrats...
The attitude on the continent seems to be "EU is good therefore let it do what it wants". Alas, any criticism of that ends up being hijacked by the pants-on-head "EU is evil!!!" crowd.
Biggest thing I want to see is an end to all the European corruption. MEP expenses, farm subsidies, lack of transparency, lobbying, plutocrats...
The attitude on the continent seems to be "EU is good therefore let it do what it wants". Alas, any criticism of that ends up being hijacked by the pants-on-head "EU is evil!!!" crowd.
Germany appointed the man they wanted into the position.
The United Kingdom is at a crossroads for the five years who come
In France this eventual accession is not well seen
In France it is the same kind of arguments ...
The Germany dominates Europe. She decides for us. And it is quite disturbing
Same arguments over here about Scotland.
Well I'm not so sure about that, don't forget the vote was 27 against one, so it wasn't just Germany.
What would it have looked like if England dictated the course for the other 27 and getting their way by pouting Juncker.
Also besides the point, Juncker isn't as bad as he's been tried to look like in the English press, I worked for over 10 years for him and I can tell you the man is capable..mostly he succeeds in bringing compromise to parties.
If DC is able to do compromise he should get along fine with him.
Alas, compromise is seen as a sign of weakness in politicians.
The point is that Germany dominates the EU and gets what it wants. The organisation that has become the EU was first floated to bring countries in Europe closer so that they wouldn't attack each other. This was shortly after the WWII. Looks like Germany won that one after all.
ref your points about England dictating the course for the rest of Europe, I'm confused, England doesn't have a presence in EU.
<deleted>
Last edited:
I'm always entertained by the differences in attitude to political independence in the UK.
Scotland having an independence referendum means that democracy is working and people can make a choice.
The UK having an independence referendum means that the loonies have taken over and the people need to be protected from them.
Tush.
Scotland having an independence referendum means that democracy is working and people can make a choice.
The UK having an independence referendum means that the loonies have taken over and the people need to be protected from them.
Tush.
My opinion is that the British press do not run the country even if they think they do.
What amuses me about Scottish Independence is they want to leave the UK but join the EU. I'm all for Scottish Independence btw.