2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Xender]

Imagine, not all the people have 3+ hours to play the game every day! And not only that, they want this game to be fun!
You on the other hand want to kill the fun by making me to fly to Beagle point in order to get in his ship. Noooo thank you, it should be efun to do it, to instantly join. That's how games should work. Otherwise, if I have like 1-1.5 hours to play every day, I wouldn't even bother this worthless feature.

You wanna immersion? Good. Travel yourself and then press the button to join the multicrew. Just because you don't like how instant it is doesn't mean everyone should suffer. You are free to "immerse" yourself in flying to your friend and playing mini games in the process

Man because of time limit I proposed fast travel or jump gates. It have much more sense than mambo jambo telepresence. I am not talking about immersion also, did you read me? I am talking about possibilities to expand multicrew, this is the biggest problem.
Whats more, Elite from the beginning was really time consuming. Changing it over time in that way brakes the initial concepts, at this point I don't see real reasons to recreate whole galaxy. Something with size of bubble will be enough. Just put Sag A* and some other interesting locations to it and it will be enough if you want "faster gameplay". I am also time constrained, I will be glad to see some simplifications, like jump gates Colonia -> Bubble. Instant teleport between stations and ship with player transfer when offline.
IMO much better than telepresence but gives similar results.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Frontier chose to listen to the community - and sought to ensure that as many players had the opportunity to vote on it (by not using the forums for the poll as there's no requirement to own the game to vote in a forum poll) - before implementing the design originally discussed in the DDF (i.e. delayed and with cost) rather than forcing in the feature as developmentally cheaply as possibly for 2.2.

Right so. And now we have a ship transfer feature that is barely usefull and does nothing to lower the barriers to coop
gameplay (which was the stated goal of FD). In other words : they developped a feature to do A, and then gimped it
so that it does not not allow to properly do A because of forum outrage officialized with a vote. In my book that is wasted dev time.

In the end, FD can do whatever they want with ED. As I see it, FD does not take coop play seriously*. When (if) they will, I might
be able to convince coop minded people to move back to it / consider it. Still MC as proposed is a baby step in the right direction.

*By that I mean that FD is not a properly MP game in the modern sense.

 

[Evoflash]

Please fix the Wavescanner in the SRV.

 

[zimms]

Love the poll from this post.

Just clearly shows FD have almost zero clue about their player base.

Most people don't even do combat [...]

Just clearly shows Soon(TM) has almost zero clue about the player base.

 

[Knightshark]

Right so. And now we have a ship transfer feature that is barely usefull and does nothing to lower the barriers to coop
gameplay (which was the stated goal of FD). In other words : they developped a feature to do A, and then gimped it
so that it does not not allow to properly do A because of forum outrage officialized with a vote. In my book that is wasted dev time.

In the end, FD can do whatever they want with ED. As I see it, FD does not take coop play seriously*. When (if) they will, I might
be able to convince coop minded people to move back to it / consider it. Still MC as proposed is a baby step in the right direction.

*By that I mean that FD is not a properly MP game in the modern sense.

But i don't think instant transfer is the only (or best) solution to fix this. If we were able to command our ships to any station any time (i.e. from ships comm panels) we could just send our ships to the destination in advance, and arrive at the same time as the ship. Yes, instant transfer is even simpler, but this solution would require some planing in advance and it would not break immersion.

 

[Xender]

Right so. And now we have a ship transfer feature that is barely usefull and does nothing to lower the barriers to coop
gameplay (which was the stated goal of FD). In other words : they developped a feature to do A, and then gimped it
so that it does not not allow to properly do A because of forum outrage officialized with a vote. In my book that is wasted dev time.

In the end, FD can do whatever they want with ED. As I see it, FD does not take coop play seriously*. When (if) they will, I might
be able to convince coop minded people to move back to it / consider it. Still MC as proposed is a baby step in the right direction.

*By that I mean that FD is not a properly MP game in the modern sense.

I frequently use ship transfer. I have few ships and each time I change my "home" location I move the ships. This is much more convenient to transfer ships than fly for them on my own. As I mentioned Frontier should add jump gates between major locations to improve coop gameplay rather than introducing mambo jambo telepresence. If we are looking for convenience for gameplay just make right.

 

[Muetdhiver]

But i don't think instant transfer is the only (or best) solution to fix this. If we were able to command our ships to any station any time (i.e. from ships comm panels) we could just send our ships to the destination in advance, and arrive at the same time as the ship. Yes, instant transfer is even simpler, but this solution would require some planing in advance and it would not break immersion.

In short, fire ED move the ships log out. Play something else. Come back tomorrow...

Do you really think that would work ? IMO, people will just skip both parts involving ED and play something
that does not require jumping through hoops and waiting for 1h / 1dy (the same thing really when play sessions are 1 to 1.5h).

Don't get me wrong, I love ED. It's just that I hate that it's not a serious coop game contender, because I do mostly coop.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Right so. And now we have a ship transfer feature that is barely usefull and does nothing to lower the barriers to coop
gameplay (which was the stated goal of FD). In other words : they developped a feature to do A, and then gimped it
so that it does not not allow to properly do A because of forum outrage officialized with a vote. In my book that is wasted dev time.

In the end, FD can do whatever they want with ED. As I see it, FD does not take coop play seriously*. When (if) they will, I might
be able to convince coop minded people to move back to it / consider it. Still MC as proposed is a baby step in the right direction.

*By that I mean that FD is not a properly MP game in the modern sense.

Whether the ship / module transfer feature is useful, or not, rather depends on one's expectations from it - and delayed enjoyed a significant majority in the official poll.

Instant co-operative play and a game world the size of the galaxy seem to be contradictory - Frontier decided on the size of the game world before we knew of this version and are now seeking to permit a form of co-operative play that does not "break" the scale of the game world, in my opinion. It won't satisfy everyone, given the differences in player opinions, but should (hopefully) allow players that want to quickly join up to play together to do so.

 

[Knightshark]

In short, fire ED move the ships log out. Play something else. Come back tomorrow...

Do you really think that would work ? IMO, people will just skip both parts involving ED and play something
that does not require jumping through hoops and waiting for 1h / 1dy (the same thing really when play sessions are 1 to 1.5h).

Don't get me wrong, I love ED. It's just that I hate that it's not a serious coop game contender, because I do mostly coop.

The transfer times are not that long (days or hours, rather O(10) minutes). But i wast thinking that you can initiate transfer the moment you are decide to join another player and start travelling to his location.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Right so. And now we have a ship transfer feature that is barely usefull and does nothing to lower the barriers to coop
gameplay (which was the stated goal of FD). In other words : they developped a feature to do A, and then gimped it
so that it does not not allow to properly do A because of forum outrage officialized with a vote. In my book that is wasted dev time.

In the end, FD can do whatever they want with ED. As I see it, FD does not take coop play seriously*. When (if) they will, I might
be able to convince coop minded people to move back to it / consider it. Still MC as proposed is a baby step in the right direction.

*By that I mean that FD is not a properly MP game in the modern sense.

Strange i find ship transfer extremely useful. Have no idea how it isn't. I use the feature while I do other things in game. This is very much a QoL feature for me.

- - - Updated - - -

Whether the ship / module transfer feature is useful, or not, rather depends on one's expectations from it - and delayed enjoyed a significant majority in the official poll.

Instant co-operative play and a game world the size of the galaxy seem to be contradictory - Frontier decided on the size of the game world before we knew of this version and are now seeking to permit a form of co-operative play that does not "break" the scale of the game world, in my opinion. It won't satisfy everyone, given the differences in player opinions, but should (hopefully) allow players that want to quickly join up to play together to do so.

It is contradictory. If FD wanted it easy to get to places, they should have implemented it from the very beginning or made the game world much smaller.

 

[JosiahD]

Yeah. Sadly I suspect that FD wont' add NPC wingmen and NPC crew because they're afraid of further damaging PVP balance (like RNGineers did). Which is a sad alter to sacrifice these 2 great elements, given how poor PVP play is. No guilds. No shared ships, poor Crew implementation, no cash transfer.

All of the restrictions of a solo / MP game. None of the benefits.

And given that even Frontier themselves have indicated MOST players don't even participate in PvP....so it's not like PvP should really matter that much as combat balancing should therefore be driven by PvE balancing requirements first and foremost....which NPC wingmen and multicrew would fit nicely with. It is indeed regrettable, in my opinion, that NPC wingmen and multicrew have seemingly been given so little priority.

 

[Muetdhiver]

And given that even Frontier themselves have indicated MOST players don't even participate in PvP....so it's not like PvP should really matter that much as combat balancing should therefore be driven by PvE balancing requirements first and foremost....which NPC wingmen and multicrew would fit nicely with. It is indeed regrettable, in my opinion, that NPC wingmen and multicrew have seemingly been given so little priority.

Well, the fact that most players are not participating into PvP can be seen in two possible ways :

a) They are not interested.
b) They are interested, but it does not work for them (e.g. non-Hz player facing engineered ships, or a player going for the mostly vestigial PvP piracy gameplay, lack of PvP BH Tools, lack of PvP focused events (beyond CG ganking...), wing issues, do I need to go on :=P )

About ship transfer : it is barely usefull. It's a QoL thing fore sure (gathering the fleet without having to fly all of these ships is sure neat). But it does not do much beyond that.
Especially w.r.t coop play where it really does not help.

 

[KING5TON]

RE NPC multicrew. What's the point currently?
You already have turrets controlled by something (you can pretend it's an NPC crew member now if you want) and you already have 1 NPC crewed fighter.
Would adding another fighter make much of a difference?
That's the only change NPC multicrew would add. Two extra pips maybe but FD could just add two extra pips to all ships if they wanted to.
That's maybe why the said they weren't going to do NPC multicrew. No point as multicrew is so basic you've already got it in effect.

 

[fennster]

RE NPC multicrew. What's the point currently?
You already have turrets controlled by something (you can pretend it's an NPC crew member now if you want) and you already have 1 NPC crewed fighter.
Would adding another fighter make much of a difference?
That's the only change NPC multicrew would add. Two extra pips maybe but FD could just add two extra pips to all ships if they wanted to.
That's maybe why the said they weren't going to do NPC multicrew. No point as multicrew is so basic you've already got it in effect.

I guess the main thing is substance.

I would imagine most, if not all, would like to see NPC avatars in there ship. Why not give them functionality also? Even if basic.

I wasn't too hopeful for SLF. But the added options, an extra button to press, a different tact, was a big addition for more.

Kind of like station traffic controllers... Zero gameplay.... BIG impact on the game feels.

 

[KING5TON]

Well, the fact that most players are not participating into PvP can be seen in two possible ways :

a) They are not interested.
b) They are interested, but it does not work for them (e.g. non-Hz player facing engineered ships, or a player going for the mostly vestigial PvP piracy gameplay, lack of PvP BH Tools, lack of PvP focused events (beyond CG ganking...), wing issues, do I need to go on :=P )

About ship transfer : it is barely usefull. It's a QoL thing fore sure (gathering the fleet without having to fly all of these ships is sure neat). But it does not do much beyond that.
Especially w.r.t coop play where it really does not help.

IMO the biggest turn off for PVP for me is rebuy cost. I'd need to grind several hours to cover the cost of a single rebuy and I cannot face more grind.
If I win at PVP I get pretty much nothing other than a fleeting feeling of victory (and probably repair costs). If I loose at PVP I need to play X hours doing something else to earn enough money to be able to cover my insurance to PVP again.

An ingame way to PVP without the insane rebuy cost (or proper scaling so I can recoup the costs quickly considering the size/cost of my ship) would make PVP much more appealing.

 

[Robert Maynard]

RE NPC multicrew. What's the point currently?
You already have turrets controlled by something (you can pretend it's an NPC crew member now if you want) and you already have 1 NPC crewed fighter.
Would adding another fighter make much of a difference?
That's the only change NPC multicrew would add. Two extra pips maybe but FD could just add two extra pips to all ships if they wanted to.
That's maybe why the said they weren't going to do NPC multicrew. No point as multicrew is so basic you've already got it in effect.

Turrets currently lose targeting ability when the target uses chaff - for player controlled turrets to offer an advantage, I'd expect chaff not to affect them in the same way.

Yes, a second SLF would make a difference, as the target has to focus on three targets rather than two.

When did Frontier say that they were never going to do NPC Multi-Crew?

 

[JosiahD]

RE NPC multicrew. What's the point currently?
You already have turrets controlled by something (you can pretend it's an NPC crew member now if you want) and you already have 1 NPC crewed fighter.
Would adding another fighter make much of a difference?
That's the only change NPC multicrew would add. Two extra pips maybe but FD could just add two extra pips to all ships if they wanted to.
That's maybe why the said they weren't going to do NPC multicrew. No point as multicrew is so basic you've already got it in effect.

For mine I think we were also hoping for other crew stations like Engineering or Science that could provide for improved ship efficiency and such. The point being the crew stations would be 'manned' as such even if by an NPC in order to get that improvement (albeit more effectively perhaps with a player instead). But yes, the auto-turrets and NPC piloted SLF are similar to what we're getting with multicrew in 2.3 anyway......and IF that's all we're ever going to get with multicrew then it might be a suitable alternative. It'd be pretty disappointing if that's all we get though.

And personally I think having NPC multicrew would have made it easier to explain the instant crewing - simply by saying we're playing as the NPC crewmembers rather than using our own CMDR, thereby avoiding this telepresence nonsense.....

 

[lokvette]

I guess the main thing is substance.

I would imagine most, if not all, would like to see NPC avatars in there ship. Why not give them functionality also? Even if basic.

I wasn't too hopeful for SLF. But the added options, an extra button to press, a different tact, was a big addition for more.

Kind of like station traffic controllers... Zero gameplay.... BIG impact on the game feels.

I would love to see NPC crew as in a crew, dont care if they couldn't do anything, just to fill those empty chairs, and add to the feeling that a Anaconda maybe needs more than little old me and the one NPC crew mate who is never to be seen, but pops up when I need her in the SLF.

Ok going bk to frontiers here, you could hire and fire a crew in that, think you needed 8 to fly the panther, even the last X game let you hire a crew which if you jumped to the back of your ship there they were not doing much but they where there, hell we even had a co pilot now I think about it.

For me its more about having a presence over them doing anything, I dont care for MC with real ppl have no interest in playing the game with others. but that's just me for those who want it great enjoy it.

 

[KING5TON]

Turrets currently lose targeting ability when the target uses chaff - for player controlled turrets to offer an advantage, I'd expect chaff not to affect them in the same way.

Yes, a second SLF would make a difference, as the target has to focus on three targets rather than two.

When did Frontier say that they were never going to do NPC Multi-Crew?

I'm not saying that PC multicrew is pointless.
Having NPC crewmembers for the current description of multicrew wouldn't change very much though (because your turrets are already controlled for you and you already have an NPC SLF).
So asking for NPC multicrew based on the current description of multicrew would be pretty much pointless.
If Multicrew was better developed then I could see the point, in it's current incarnation I don't see the point as you've basically already got it.

 

[dynamicbob]

I'm not saying that PC multicrew is pointless.
Having NPC crewmembers for the current description of multicrew wouldn't change very much though (because your turrets are already controlled for you and you already have an NPC SLF).
So asking for NPC multicrew based on the current description of multicrew would be pretty much pointless.
If Multicrew was better developed then I could see the point, in it's current incarnation I don't see the point as you've basically already got it.

that would require depth of content, something along the lines of srv being able to be multicrew and u could deploy a few at once..... again though there is a lack of imagination or resources