Hardware & Technical Joystick recommendations Thrustmaster T16000 versus VKB Gladiator
- Thread starter Tycondero
- Start date
I'd lean toward a VKB Cobra M5 - it ha slots of buttons right there, on the stick, at your fingertips - where you can use them. The T16000M is nice, especially for the money, but it wastes 12 bindings at the base of the stick - completely useless.
I've currently got a T16000M, VKB Cobra M5 and a Warthog.
In order from best to worst for ED - Warthog, Cobra M5, T16000M. In fact, my T16000M is in pieces, as I thought I'd try modding some more buttons onto the top of the stick, but got bored before I got close to finishing, and just threw it into my parts bin. It's ok, if you have the FCS throttle as well, or a CH Pro throttle, as the bindings on those help make up for it, but otherwise..
Now, as for the Gladiator... Nice stick, but... Being based on a WWII stick, it's even worse for bindings. Space sims *really* benefit from lots of buttons on the stick. I'm currently waiting for VKB to launch the gunfighter, and will, for now, use the Cobra M5 handle for that, until they release the space sim handle later this year.
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Allegedly, there will be a twist mod available for all sticks at some stage, can't remember where I read it, but I'm pretty sure it was on the gunfighter thread at the DCS forums.
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I've currently got a T16000M, VKB Cobra M5 and a Warthog.
In order from best to worst for ED - Warthog, Cobra M5, T16000M. In fact, my T16000M is in pieces, as I thought I'd try modding some more buttons onto the top of the stick, but got bored before I got close to finishing, and just threw it into my parts bin. It's ok, if you have the FCS throttle as well, or a CH Pro throttle, as the bindings on those help make up for it, but otherwise..
Now, as for the Gladiator... Nice stick, but... Being based on a WWII stick, it's even worse for bindings. Space sims *really* benefit from lots of buttons on the stick. I'm currently waiting for VKB to launch the gunfighter, and will, for now, use the Cobra M5 handle for that, until they release the space sim handle later this year.
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Allegedly, there will be a twist mod available for all sticks at some stage, can't remember where I read it, but I'm pretty sure it was on the gunfighter thread at the DCS forums.
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The quickest and most detachable thing to do would be an analogue stick mod - that would free up the hat switch for targeting or somesuch.
[woah]
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Not sure if an analog stick is the best idea on the stick, to much fine control going on, I think.
Thanks for pointing out my typo!
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I see you didn't get a reply yet so here is something...
I used a Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS-X for 2 years and it still works great. First impressions were "that feels like it is going to break before long, ah well it was only £30", however it has proved to be extremely reliable and has enough buttons for most things. The major down-side to it is that there is no HAT on the throttle, if it had one of them it would still be in use for me. (Actually it is still in use on my second PC.) The HOTAS-X is small enough to not take up too much desk room, it only uses up one USB socket, the throttle axis can be full-range (forward and back) with a good centre-detent for zero - all this with a twist axis on the stick and no need for driver software.
So your major benefit is you get to save loadsamoney plus you don't lose your desk space to big controls.
I use the CH Pro Throttle and have really fallen back to the CH Fighterstick for ED but I am still trying to decide whether to send back my Cobra M5 while the 14 day return window is still available. I gave it a try as I do miss the twist axis (even though I use yaw-to-slew on the CH) but I found the triggers to be awkward and didn't come up with good mapping for the stick buttons.
So I wonder if you feel like sharing your Cobra M5 bindings as I might be tempted to just keep the M5 and use it for combat (which I am not really into)?
In a related area, have you any thoughts about the primary and secondary fire buttons? I am thinking particularly about whether they are reliable (feel very insubstantial compared to the CH) and is it my stubby fingers that mucks up independent use of primary and secondary fire?
The problem I have with the CH, is that it's a serious amount of money, and the tech used is ancient. Considering the age of the design it should be at least 30-40% cheaper than it is. For that sort of money, it isn't much more to get a VKB Gunfighter, or, a Warthog stick. If only they'd update it with magnetic sensors and better resolution - something I wish they'd do with the CH Pro throttle...
Anyway, as for the M5 - I am happy to share, but you'll have to wait until I finish rebuilding my PC - and buy a new KB. I just shifted my rig to another country, and left my old KB in my old place for the 2nd ED rig. Hopefully, tomorrow.
I have posted my bindings before, but no idea where that post is...
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Anyway, as for the M5 - I am happy to share, but you'll have to wait until I finish rebuilding my PC - and buy a new KB. I just shifted my rig to another country, and left my old KB in my old place for the 2nd ED rig. Hopefully, tomorrow.
I have posted my bindings before, but no idea where that post is...
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Kinda agree with that... Once you get the hang of rudder pedals, you just cant go back. So much more control...
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I totally agree about the "ancient tech" and I too think it should be a bit cheaper. However I have used CH stuff in flight sims for donkey's years and they just keep going. Old tech but really well made and reliable tech. Yes it would be good to see new models using hall-effect technology.
I look forward to seeing your take on the M5 bindings, no rush, just when it is convenient - thanks.
P.S. I don't even like using my CH Pro rudder pedals in flight sims (of course I have to), I find it doubly awkward to do so in E D.
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my biggest issue with sticks/hotas + ED is wear on cheap buttons + wiring looms that have a low MTBF (mean time between failure). ive eaten many x52's
my trusty Thrusty warty-hog is the best and the hardest wearing
yes, its given me RSI in the right arm so i had to get a steroid injection
but all the buttons and axis still work after 18 months
I have a aset of saitek peddles also for yaw
Totally agree - I expect my Pro Throttle to outlast my ED gaming. It's odd about rudder pedals, I guess some people don't gel as well with rudder pedals and yaw as others - it is actually quite interesting.
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The T16000 is very good for fixed weapons. Extremely stable, accurate, and smooth. Punches well above its price class.
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OK, I got my bindings - now, there are one or two things missing, seeing as I play between two PC's - the one I left in Sydney, and the one here in Manila, (on which I use the Warthog), I don't have the latest binding file on the rig here in Manila, but it's not too far altered. Also, I have a VKB T-rudder MKIII, which is not recognised by that site.
Note - I have not used it for the SRV much, or the SLF at all (something about paying someone big cuts of my cash for doing very little, so that "I" can fly my fighter just bugs me...), so not really much in the way of SRV or SLF controls bound yet.
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Thanks for that, I see that you don't use the mode switch on the stick nor the button 2 secondary fire - I find myself not inspired by that either.
Nope - mode switches are annoying as far as I am concerned. I use the pinky button on the CH Pro to add the second functionality.
As for the secondary fire, it's actually bound to heat sinks (as I said, that is a slightly older bind file). It works because I can flick up the primary fire and just use heat sinks, or, I can pop a heat sink in mid combat - as usually I'm shooting stuff when I need to pop one. though in that file, it was bound for Silent Running, and that idea didn't really work out. Heat sinks do, though.
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I have been playing about with the idea of swapping-in the Cobra M5 in place of my fighterstick for some things (so using a separate binds file) - but the Cobra seems to be incredibly sensitive, small inputs in pitch and roll produce huge movements. I have calibrated in windows but that made no difference, obviously I created dead-zones in the axes assignments in the bindings to give some stability. Have you found this or is there a firmware setting / adjustment for the Cobra? I would be interested to read your experiences / thoughts on this. (Thanks in advance.)
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Yeah, this is true, compared to the T16000M it is a much lighter touch. I have looked for stronger springs, but never really found anything I could easily get hold of. Having said that, I got used to it quite fast, and swapping between it and my Warthog is pretty easy now, though, I am looking to use the VKB Gunfighter base with the VKB Cobra handle, until they release a better handle for it.
There is the dedicated adjustment software for the Cobra, probably better to use that for calibration, but other than that, I just kinda got used to it. For a little while, I was entertaining the idea of somehow mating the Cobra M5 grip to the T16000M base (which was partly why I took my T16000M apart, to have a look at what this would entail), but ended up realising that I am not that motivated, as it looks to be a bit of work, and the VKB Gunfighter base was confirmed to be released in March, so figured there was no point, anyway.
Now, there is also a software package for VKB, not unlike the Thrustmaster thing, but for some reason, I have not been able to get it to start up on my current rig. No idea why, it just wont start. It did start on my i5 4690K rig, but I never really messed with it much, other than to check the calibration of my T-Rudder MKIII's (which were perfect out of the box).
You can get these packages from here, check on the right side panel, marked under "featured downloads".
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