Feedback from CMDR creator tool (The i am hologram, lore explanation and its placement on UI)

[Deadspin]

This is a video game.

Seriously. It's not a simulation (though aspects of it could be argued as such (galaxy)). It's not true to all of the lore, as we've seen FDev retconning where needed for the game. It's a game that's being built and designed for both the hardcore player and the casual player.

It's absolutely absurd that most of you think you can pick and choose what to handwave and what ultimately destroys your immersion WRT new mechanics.

Just be happy that we're getting new mechanics and please, for the love of god, stop making assumptions about how these new mechanics will ERHMAGHERD BREAK THE GAME for you before we've even had the chance to put our hands on them as players and try to break them (the beta!).

 

[Faybs]

If I was the designer of the Avatar Editor UI, I'd make sure it is accessible only via Main Menu -> Options -> Avatar Editor.

IMHO that's where it belongs.

I see no reason to do a "quick hairdo" or "let me quickly change my skull symmetry" via the Ship Inferface of the very Ship our physical bodies are supposedly flying. That'd be.... weird. Very very weird.

Yep, move it to the menu. You can't change your gender unless you've logged out of the game, why should you be able to change your bone structure in real time?

 

[Winterwalker]

Appearance or not? From a pure gameplay point of view I'd be shocked if they couldn't, but the telepresence lore doesn't allow it.

Genuinely? Unknown. However the evidence is that it's a designer for you to design yourself. You could maybe argue it's not you at all but a hologram (you never get killed, instant transport to rebuy screen etc.) but, even if you live in an underground bunker (sharks with fricken laserbeams attached) that's a bit boring really? Was wondering earlier if changes to your avatar design might cost you credits (like visiting a surgeon to change your identity for evading authorites, buying drugs to do the same) but if there's any place where a concession to 'it's a game' is appropriate I think character designer probably qualifies as one of them.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Sure I see the SLF as a 21st century drone with a built-in camera. The drone flies around the forest or whatever while you're on your lawn chair holding a laptop. You transmit to the drone signals that control its servos, so your transmitter needs to be strong enough for the signal to reach the drone, and also the drone transmits its webcam feed to you, so it's transmitter needs to be strong enough for the images to get to you. You could argue that one could use the host's ship as a data relay to boost the signal from the drone to your ship back in Colonia so the SLF (so you don't need a big power source on the SLF), but then one could argue that the fighter pilot could do the same, remain on the station and not have to die.

Ah, cool point!

Small correction: The SLF is not a drone. Telepresence is not a 'digital interface' where you sit on the ship, control a joystick which remotely controls the SLF and feeds the data back via webcam and such. You project your hologram into it, who physically controls the SLF. Yes, a hologram with physical interaction: deal with it. Now lets talk inception-levels: CMDRs have three inception levels at most currently: You can sit in your mothership (lvl1), multi-crew as a hologram (lvl2) to another mothership, then have this hologram place a hologram-hologram-you (lvl3) into an SLF. NPC fighters have two inception-levels: Real-Them on the mothership (lvl1), Hologram on the SLF (lvl2).

So the question is why we have three levels, and NPCs have two. Clearly its not a technical issue, as three levels are obviously possible. So to Lore It Up you go for some sort of regulation: only members of the Pilot Federation are allowed Enhanced Holograms that can create their own hologram. Everyone else has just the Regular Hologram.

 

[Paramemetic]

You're not explaining how the purportedly low bandwidth signal manages to send high quality, 60fps video streams across the known galaxy instantaneously.

Because galaxy-wide instant information transfer is a straight up fact of the Elite canon. It's just a thing that exists. Perhaps the Pilot's Federation guards the technical specifications and details of how it works to maintain their galactic monopoly on power, but it's literally just straight up "this is a thing."

If you are not happy with this being part of the lore, which it is, you should maybe consider a game that has a canon more to your liking. Star Trek, maybe?

"But what about courier missions!?" Courier missions are about transporting sensitive data that factions do not want to transfer over systems they do not control, such as (for example) GalNet, which is controlled entirely by the Pilot's Federation. Hiring a Pilot's Federation Pilot at least makes it a little less likely to be stolen, otherwise they have literally no options.

EVEN ASSUMING that such a thing as described by FDev existed, which it doesn't. There is no evidence of FTL data transmissions existing in the game-world.

The evidence of FTL data transmission is that it has been part of the Elite canon since the very beginning. Instant data transfer has always been part of Elite. It's how the game works. It's how the Pilot's Federation maintains its control. It is not only part of the lore, it is so fundamental to the lore that the game makes no sense without it.

Elite's lore was crafted around a game. Unlike Star Trek or Star Wars or whatever, where the story came first and the games came later, Elite's lore is built around game mechanics because it is lore about a game. All of this stuff you keep bringing up about instant data transfer being "just a game mechanic" is lore because the lore was specifically written to explain the game mechanic. The lore has grown as the games became more sophisticated. It has had growing pains here and there.

The entire basis of Elite gameplay is, however, that you, a Pilot's Federation CMDR, are able to do the things you do because the Pilot's Federation has instant datatransfer.

This thing you're saying about "there is no evidence of FTL data transmissions" only makes sense if you have literally never played the game, because everything in the game, literally every mechanic in the entire game, depends on this.

Crime reporting/ shooting ships/ legal vs. illegal targets: propagates via your ship's computer using GalNet instantly and galaxy wide.

Exploration / planetary discoveries: propagates via your ship's computer using GalNet instantly and galaxy wide.

Mining / reporting on how much things you've mined to Engineers who give you access based on those stats: propagates via your ship's computer using GalNet instantly and galaxy wide.

Rank levels of NPCs you encounter for determining their combat ranking equivalent (they do not have an actual rank because they are not Pilot's Federation): propagates via your ship's computer using GalNet instantly and galaxy wide.

Mission availability based on your Combat/Trade/Exporation rank: propagates via your ship's computer using GalNet instantly and galaxy wide.

Your actual Combat/Trade/Exploration rank responding to things you do in game: propagates via your ship's computer using GalNet instantly and galaxy wide.

System permits: propagates via your ship's computer using GalNet instantly and galaxy wide.

In Game Communication: propagates via your ship's computer using GalNet instantly and galaxy wide.

CQC/Arena: propagates via your ship's computer using GalNet instantly and galaxy wide.

and so on and so on

If you are seriously convinced that FTL data transfer is not a thing in Elite: Dangerous, I would consider checking to see if you have in fact ever played Elite: Dangerous or indeed any Elite game because this is how all of these games work.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

These features having explanations is ridiculous. So then if I open fire on a fellow commander using multicrew before seeing if they are wanted or if they are clean... I still get charged for murder and a bounty on me. A bounty... for killing a hologram... a bounty for murdering a hologram. Just leave the lore explanation out of it as it just silly.

Then the whole telepresence thing. Since when was that a thing? I could be at beagle point and they could be in chamunda and they can just beam themselves over a hologram all instantly with no packet loss or lag and operate a ship or ship launched fighter as if they were there in my ship physically? Since when did we have that tech? That would put us at a tech level greater than the Guardians or the Thargoids.

Just leave these features without an explanation. Because the ones you guys are making are full of ludicrous holes.

 

[Faybs]

Genuinely? Unknown. However the evidence is that it's a designer for you to design yourself. You could maybe argue it's not you at all but a hologram (you never get killed, instant transport to rebuy screen etc.) but, even if you live in an underground bunker (sharks with fricken laserbeams attached) that's a bit boring really? Was wondering earlier if changes to your avatar design might cost you credits (like visiting a surgeon to change your identity for evading authorites, buying drugs to do the same) but if there's any place where a concession to 'it's a game' is appropriate I think character designer probably qualifies as one of them.

I'd prefer it if it's purely a game thing and we all overlook the fact that you can change your appearance on a whim. IMHO it only becomes a problem when it gets its own lore that doesn't fit well into the rest of the existing lore.

 

[Cosmo]

Some aspects of the Holo-me should be earned in-game such as additional suit customization options. I also really want faction specific clothing such as a Federation business suit.

 

[Deadspin]

Some aspects of the Holo-me should be earned in-game such as additional suit customization options. I also really want faction specific clothing such as a Federation business suit.

Get out. Just get out.

<3

 

[Weps]

WHY DOES THIS MATTER?

Why am I playing this game if its entire story goes out the window?
Why am I able to look around the cockpit as if I were flying a spaceship? What gameplay value does that have?
Why do station rotate to simulate gravity? Why do I have to manually match rotation?
Why do I have to manually drop landing gear? Why can't the game do that for me?
Why do I have to maneuver the SLF into docking position? Can't it spawn and despawn instantly near the mothership?
Why do the SLF and SRV have lower and raise animation? How does that improve gameplay?
Why is there a Galnet with news? Who reads that? Do they give up game time to read about fictional events?
Why do NPC crewmembers have faces and biographies? Does it matter at all for gameplay?
Why does the tower greet me with an audio message? How does that improve my game?
Why is there an annoying e-mail message in my comms everytime I pick up a piece of firmware? Is that of any value?
Why would I pay FDEV any money for cosmetics? Would those make my ship fly faster or shoot harder?

 

[bitstorm]

These features having explanations is ridiculous. So then if I open fire on a fellow commander using multicrew before seeing if they are wanted or if they are clean... I still get charged for murder and a bounty on me. A bounty... for killing a hologram... a bounty for murdering a hologram. Just leave the lore explanation out of it as it just silly.

You do not understand.

The main driver guy is not a hologram.

But saying that I would still avoid trying to think too hard about it and getting upset if you see a hole, it is primarily a game and even the "almighty" lore must bow to that.

 

[Deadspin]

Why am I playing this game if its entire story goes out the window?
Why am I able to look around the cockpit as if I were flying a spaceship? What gameplay value does that have?
Why do station rotate to simulate gravity? Why do I have to manually match rotation?
Why do I have to manually drop landing gear? Why can't the game do that for me?
Why do I have to maneuver the SLF into docking position? Can't it spawn and despawn instantly near the mothership?
Why do the SLF and SRV have lower and raise animation? How does that improve gameplay?
Why is there a Galnet with news? Who reads that? Do they give up game time to read about fictional events?
Why do NPC crewmembers have faces and biographies? Does it matter at all for gameplay?
Why does the tower greet me with an audio message? How does that improve my game?
Why is there an annoying e-mail message in my comms everytime I pick up a piece of firmware? Is that of any value?
Why would I pay FDEV any money for cosmetics? Would those make my ship fly faster or shoot harder?

Yeah.. I don't think anyone really complained in earnest about any of those mechanics being game breaking for them.

C'mon now Weps.

 

[Dsign]

Personally I would prefer it to be just the Commander Creator, you shape your character and then you can not change it. You could still change beard and hair, I assume hairdressers still exist in the future.
Maybe you could add a type of station or places where you could get esthetic surgery, so be able to modify your look for some amount of money?

 

[bitstorm]

Some aspects of the Holo-me should be earned in-game such as additional suit customization options. I also really want faction specific clothing such as a Federation business suit.

Ha! I'm totally fine with it.

It's just cosmetic rewards, so yes Alliance flightsuit, Empire chest logo, and so forth. The game really does need more "progression" rewards.

I am King Admiral Britain fer God's sake, where are my medals!!

 

[Paramemetic]

here is a screenshot from the original 1984 Elite Player's Manual talking about communications systems on your Cobra:

You might notice that it implies holographic communication is a thing. While it does not directly state "this is an instant thing btw" the fact that that is how it behaves would certainly imply that.

 

[Weps]

My point was that when you stop caring about the fictional world building completely, you can also throw away all the little features which serve this purpose in the first place, for any number of reasons: player inconvenience, development resources, even engine requirements.

 

[bitstorm]

I have never seen any holographic two way communication tech in any science fiction ever that is not instant. =p

 

[Chrysophylax]

My point was that when you stop caring about the fictional world building completely, you can also throw away all the little features which serve this purpose in the first place, for any number of reasons: player inconvenience, development resources, even engine requirements.

You can. Or not.

See: slippery slope

 

[MyHammer]

Yeah.. I don't think anyone really complained in earnest about any of those mechanics being game breaking for them.

C'mon now Weps.

That was meant sarcastic...

 

[Weps]

I didn't say the devs should. I merely asked why.