Guide / Tutorial Building The Most Immersive Elite Dangerous Simulator - An Extensive Guide

[ChicagoChad]

Needs TrackIR, force feedback and you are missing some great games.

No mention of games like Farming Simulator 2017 supports TrackIR and flight sims like IL-2 and MS Flight Simulator that support force feedback??

Plus, the Thustmaster ministick for thrust in Elite really sucks. CH Products has the best one for that.

 

[Exigeous]

First just a little self-bump as I just updated some of the software I use to add EDDI and EDEngineer. Check out the first article for details but if you don't yet know what these do you should stop what you're doing and go read about them now!!

Needs TrackIR

I'm guessing you didn't read much as I'm a VR player, as such TrackIR isn't necessary. Even if I weren't honestly I HATED TrackIR. After fiddling with it for several hours I never got the tracking very smooth and even had I the feeling of looking in one place yet moving my head just felt super awkward to me. I know many love it but for the $150 price tag I felt it was an absolute rip off. I haven't gotten to try the Tobii Eye Tracker 4c yet but hear great things, to me that seems like it would be far more natural since you're just moving your eyes. Different strokes for different folks.

force feedback

Force feedback for what, the stick? I know Logitech has an older force feedback stick the G940 and that many seem to like it. As it's out of production I didn't really want to track down an old/used one as I'd guess it's life span is somewhat short.

I do however have full force feedback in my racing wheel which is fantastic/necessary for those titles. In another testament to Frontier's attention to detail the racing wheel does force feedback when driving the SRV with it. When I deploy I slide my seat forward, grab my wheel and move my feet to my driving pedals and voila - I'm "driving" the SRV. Fantastic for immersion.

you are missing some great games.... ....like Farming Simulator 2017, IL-2 and MS Flight Simulator

I actually do have MS Flight Sim X, I just forgot to put it on the list. I haven't tried IL-2 but know it gets great reviews. I saw they added support for the Vive but I've seen that many pilots don't have a great time getting it working and for me for flight VR is now a must. As for Farming Sim just not at all my type of game, save for the fact it's a sim (and I do love sims). I'd put Euro and American Truck Simulator on that same list, both get great reviews but just aren't my type of games.

the Thustmaster ministick for thrust in Elite really sucks. CH Products has the best one for that.

Can't really argue this with you and while I haven't used the CH stick I hear good things about it. The little stick on the X52 also gets pretty good results. I never need/use my mouse while playing Elite save for using a webpage outside of VR (which I try my damnedest not to do). Many times I'll ask on Discord "anyone have EDDB open and can check something for me". The guys I fly with know I'm in VR and (usually) don't mind answering. I did just get HelloV working, it's a VR overlay app that let's you bring apps/webpages into the VR world and place them where ever. I use it to search things on EDDB, to see posts/screenshots from Discord and to watch video from my Plex server. That way on a long trip I have a TV in my cockpit, it's rather sweet.

 

[Nickola]

About TrackIR, I use an EDTracker. It works really well and is lower priced than the $150 you mentionned.
When I bought mine you could even buy it unassembled to have a still lower price.

 

[Exigeous]

About TrackIR, I use an EDTracker. It works really well and is lower priced than the $150 you mentionned.
When I bought mine you could even buy it unassembled to have a still lower price.

Mind me asking what you did, or what the lowest price you can get it for? For me the feeling of turning/moving my head while keeping my eyes fixed was just really awkward. I was playing mostly racing titles at the time where looking anywhere but straight ahead is far less critical than it is in a flight/space sim. Playing Elite or any other flight sim where you can't look around, especially in combat would be a near deal breaker.

Oh and have you tried or did you look into eye tracking like the Tobii EyeX? I understand it feels far more natural as things move with your eyes rather than head so the motion/feel is much smoother. Haven't gotten to try it yet myself.

And do you have any hobbies?

HA! Yeah, I have a few others but this is definitely one of my primary ones. In the summer I'm a racing/driving instructor so this is my winter hobby. Where I am we can't really race in the winter.

 

[Nickola]

Mind me asking what you did, or what the lowest price you can get it for? For me the feeling of turning/moving my head while keeping my eyes fixed was just really awkward. I was playing mostly racing titles at the time where looking anywhere but straight ahead is far less critical than it is in a flight/space sim. Playing Elite or any other flight sim where you can't look around, especially in combat would be a near deal breaker.

Oh and have you tried or did you look into eye tracking like the Tobii EyeX? I understand it feels far more natural as things move with your eyes rather than head so the motion/feel is much smoother. Haven't gotten to try it yet myself.

I have to agree that it requires some training to get used to it. But I've configured it so it gives something between 75-100% more move than I turn, doing so it's not a hard gymnastic to keep my eyes focused on the screen.

By the way, EdTracker "Pro" (fully assembled ready to use) is £45, I bought my as a DIY version with MPU-9250, the custom PCB, and the enclosure if I remeber well it costed me no more than £25.

 

[Zeeman]

Nice set up!

Just for the record, you can achieve a similar setup without going quite as far in terms of cash. It won't be quite as immersive, however, we all have our budgets...

I, for a long time, went with a modded office chair. I picked up a comfy chair for about $50 second hand, I just made sure it had fold up arms.

I then basically ghetto modded it with some metal brackets and a couple of square bits of wood, about an inch 10mm thick, and about the base of a Warthog in terms of surface area (200mm x 200mm?) Now, I have a warthog, but I think that a CH Pro . throttle, or the new Thrustmaster FCS is a better throttle for ED. I'd also lean towards a Cobra M5 if saving cash is key, though I would splay for the VKB T-rudder - the control you get with it is fantastic - and the up/down motion is perfect for an office chair.

Now, the fold up arms are kinda key for me, as I cable tied the cables to the chair, making it neat and keeping cables out of my way. I did need extensions, but, better than having cables draped across your legs. Said arms now mean I can lift them up and out of the way to enter/exit, or get it out of the way when I'm using a table.

I also have a 55" TV (1080p with a fast reaction time).The total cost of something like that, with my Asus Gene VIII, i5 6600K, GTC1080, 16GB Ram, 650w PSU, and Oculus CV1 was about AU$4600 (keep in mind, I bought the rift second hand for AU$600 - I can't justify brand new when barely used units are out there for near half price). I also have use a mini home theatre system for audio, which is a Marantz NR1604, Boston Acoustics VR910, CR6 left/right, VRS micro rears, and the small 8" sub - which was awesome, but caused too much complaining by the other parties in the house - so I now use a pair of Audio Technica HD700 headphones - they'll set you back about au$100.

Also, for the longest time, I used a Track IR 5, with the clip on tracker (way less hassle than the wired thing that falls to pieces). I got it for $50 second hand (see the pattern?), and it is a must have, I think, for anyone who enjoy combat at all, or even just enjoys flying their ship. If VR is out of the budget, a GTX 1060, and track IR would give a flawless 1080P experience. Perhaps a GTX970 could be had for a bargain now, too... That's a lot less money right there...


Basically, you can get a pretty immersive systems for 1/4 the price of the OP - it won't be as good, no. But it'll be a nice setup that would make just about anyone grin like an idiot. I'd take a photo of the rig, but I'm currently in my SE Asia home (I live between two countries...), where the place is tiny, thus, I am working on a coffee table that converts to a simpit - and it needs to be wife and kid friendly when not in use, but interesting enough to my daughter that, perhaps, one day, she too will be a CMDR. she already watches me play sometimes...

Z...

 

[Zeeman]

Mind me asking what you did, or what the lowest price you can get it for? For me the feeling of turning/moving my head while keeping my eyes fixed was just really awkward. I was playing mostly racing titles at the time where looking anywhere but straight ahead is far less critical than it is in a flight/space sim. Playing Elite or any other flight sim where you can't look around, especially in combat would be a near deal breaker.

Oh and have you tried or did you look into eye tracking like the Tobii EyeX? I understand it feels far more natural as things move with your eyes rather than head so the motion/feel is much smoother. Haven't gotten to try it yet myself.



HA! Yeah, I have a few others but this is definitely one of my primary ones. In the summer I'm a racing/driving instructor so this is my winter hobby. Where I am we can't really race in the winter.

The problem with things like Eye X, and Track IR, is that IR light is not really great for your eyes. The ED Tracker is quite a good alternative...

Z...

 

[Exigeous]

I've configured it so it gives something between 75-100% more move than I turn, doing so it's not a hard gymnastic to keep my eyes focused on the screen.

Fair enough and obviously it's personal preference. I can see how that could help.

EdTracker "Pro"... ...is £45, I bought my as a DIY... ....no more than £25.

At those prices I'd be far less critical on it - the $150 I paid was crazy IMHO given how badly it worked and how simple/cheaply made it was. For say $25 I most likely would have kept it.

Nice set up!

Thanks!

...you can achieve a similar setup without going quite as far in terms of cash.

Agreed, you absolutely can. Remember that I built mine over about a 2 year period adding various bits and bobs as I went along. If I were to do it again I'd likely spend about half and would do some things differently. I'd be very tempted by a 34" ultrawide instead of the triples but then again I've used triples for about 10 years now and would hate to give that up.

....I have a warthog, but I think that a CH Pro . throttle, or the new Thrustmaster FCS is a better throttle for ED.

Curious why you think so. For me nothing compares to the Warthog in terms of features and build quality, as you know it's a tank and weighs a metric ton. While I haven't tried the FCS yet it looks like cheap plastic death to me, I really hate how it looks. At that price I'm a much bigger fan of the X52 as I like the feel, layout and look FAR more than the FCS.

...the VKB T-rudder - the control you get with it is fantastic - and the up/down motion is perfect for an office chair.

True about office chair use and while I really like my Mark IV T-rudders I would have gone with the MFC Crosswinds had I known about them when I got my IV's. I love that they're small, well built, all metal and look cool but I do wish I had toe brakes.

...I also have a 55" TV... ...Asus Gene VIII, i5 6600K, GTC1080, 16GB Ram, 650w PSU, and Oculus CV1... ...Marantz NR1604, Boston Acoustics VR910, CR6 left/right, VRS micro rears, and the small 8" sub... ...Audio Technica HD700 headphones...

Sounds like a pretty sweet setup, do you have pictures anywhere, I'd love to see it. For the $3500 US for all that it's definitely a great price for all that it gives you. Can I assume you use the Rift for Elite 99%+ of the time or do you use the TV often?

...Track IR 5... ...for anyone who enjoy combat... [or]... ...flying their ship. If VR is out of the budget... ...would give a flawless 1080P experience.

While I agree that some kind of view tracking is important I don't think I can agree that it's a "flawless" experience, in fact far from it. I had the clip you used and for me tracking was rather terrible. Never smooth at all and I spent a lot of time configuring it, research, etc. If you just can't afford VR and are going to do something in the $40'ish range that very well might make sense. To my eyes TrackIR isn't even remotely close to the experience you get in VR. Worlds apart. One let's you look around on a display with an odd mechanic (turning head but not eyes) and the other let's you fly a f'ing spaceship.

...can get a pretty immersive systems for 1/4 the price of the OP... ...make just about anyone grin like an idiot

Again I can't disagree with this at all. Depending on the chassis you used to mount everything (seat, wheel/pedals, HOTAS, etc) I think it would be more like 1/3 but still far cheaper than what I've built.

.... I'd take a photo of the rig, but I'm currently in my SE Asia home

Damn, when you can I really would love to see your setup.

...it needs to be wife and kid friendly

Fortunately (or not) I don't have those constraints as I'm happily single at the moment. That said when I do have a date over for dinner the door to the small bedroom my setup is in stays *very* closed.

...my daughter that, perhaps, one day, she too will be a CMDR.

That's very cool, I have to imagine that's rather fun for you guys. A good friend once brought his 8 year old son by and he flipped out and wouldn't stop asking "can I fly, can I fly?!?!". I plopped him in my lap, but on the Rift for him and took the controls to fly him around - he couldn't get enough. Of course that was an hour after the first time he tried the Rift - I thought "kids love dinosaurs, right?" so the first thing I showed him is the Oculus Dreamdeck (demo stuff) where a T-Rex walks down a hall and roars in your face. In a split second he threw the Rift off his head and was in his dad's arms crying and terrified. Yeah, I felt like a total idiot. Fortunately after promising nothing would be scary he was willing to try again.

The problem... ...IR light is not really great for your eyes. The ED Tracker is quite a good alternative..

I hadn't really thought of that but it's absolutely true isn't it.

 

[Zeeman]

...
Agreed, you absolutely can. Remember that I built mine over about a 2 year period adding various bits and bobs as I went along. If I were to do it again I'd likely spend about half and would do some things differently. I'd be very tempted by a 34" ultrawide instead of the triples but then again I've used triples for about 10 years now and would hate to give that up.

...

Just looked over your build again. The attention to detail is awesome - it is quite inspiring for my coffee table build. ie - making it all fit nicely, and hiding cables etc - basically, attention to detail!

I also like that you have the set up workable as a driving sim cockpit, too. Going to be tough to achieve that with what I'm doing, seeing as I also want a helicopter collective installed... Somehow...

Z...

 

[Marc JX8P]

Wow, that's a beautiful setup! [woah]

 

[Exigeous]

The attention to detail is awesome - it is quite inspiring for my coffee table build...

...I also want a helicopter collective installed

Thanks Zeeman, I appreciate this. As you see I just can't stand for cables to be seen. I just can't stand clutter.

My father was an airline pilot so I've always planned to get my license some day. If I wasn't addicted to Elite right now I'd be learning to fly with MS Flight Simulator / XPlane / etc. Do you feel like someone can learn to fly helicopters with a good/high-end home simulator? Obviously like flying fixed wing or even driving a race car there are psychical skills that must be learned. But even then you can learn quite a lot from flight/racing sims.

Oh and I'd love to see some pictures or details on your setup. As you know this is how we get the ideas to build something for ourselves that's just how we want it.

 

[Zeeman]

Thanks Zeeman, I appreciate this. As you see I just can't stand for cables to be seen. I just can't stand clutter.

My father was an airline pilot so I've always planned to get my license some day. If I wasn't addicted to Elite right now I'd be learning to fly with MS Flight Simulator / XPlane / etc. Do you feel like someone can learn to fly helicopters with a good/high-end home simulator? Obviously like flying fixed wing or even driving a race car there are psychical skills that must be learned. But even then you can learn quite a lot from flight/racing sims.

Oh and I'd love to see some pictures or details on your setup. As you know this is how we get the ideas to build something for ourselves that's just how we want it.

I think you can get a pretty good idea - the right person will gel quite quickly with a real life version, if the controls and sim is accurate enough. You can never really simulate the overall feel - I've had 2 chopper rides in my life, and it was pretty epic - but, if you take it slow... I'd think it would be a good way to supplement your real training - as in add to it.

Same with Cars... You could get the basics across, but you don't have the same feel in a game as the real thing, clutch friction point, the feel of tyres on the edge of grip, the way brakes feel just before lock-up/ABS kicks in... You can only learn that stuff through experience, but you can work a lot out though, still. the concept of gear changes, racing lines, where the dials/controls etc are...

I'm still debating getting the frame custom built, or buying a pre-fab... Getting a seat for a custom could be tricky, though.

Z...

 

[Exigeous]

....You can never really simulate the overall feel... ...Same with Cars... ...You can only learn that stuff through experience

Totally agree. I've been racing for 10 years, instructing for 7. It's been interesting that every student I've had who was a gamer and had at least played a little Forza or GT caught on faster than non-gamers. Since the gamers had been doing some very similar things concept like the line are easy to explain and they already know much of the jargon. Sometimes it's a bad thing when someone is over confident based on their git gud skills. After their 2nd track session I take them out in my car and they get humble pretty fast ;-)

I'm still debating getting the frame custom built, or buying a pre-fab

If you want my .02 - buy pre-fab. I have no idea your skills, I have very little, and maybe you'd want to do it as you'd enjoy that too. If that's the case go for it, otherwise the great thing about pre-fab is everything lines up and there are mounts for you gear. You mentioned it being hard to find a seat for a custom build - not really true. What you'd want to do is look on Craigslist for racing seats (halo seats are bigger racing seats FYI). In racecars seats expire every few years and must be replaced - that's what you want to find. It might be a little beat up but you should be able to find one for next to nothing.

I'll say that I absolutely love my Ozone. I did a lot of research up front and strongly considered the Fanatac cockpit but I didn't like how big it was. The build quality on the Ozone is top notch and it's laid out great with many options for mounting locations. It was even super easy to unbolt the seat base from the main frame and plop it on top of my motion unit with minimal work. It's well built, easy to put together, easy to add to, easy to modify. Reasonably priced at $420 for the base unit (without shipping) so for under $500 you have a great cockpit with adjustable seat with keyboard tray, wheel platform and shifter platform. You can customize from there adding triple monitor mount for $90, Warthog/HOTAS mount for $50 and so on. Not only does it make for a great gaming cockpit but it's also a pretty kick desk. I have a swing arm keyboard tray that I can just pivot around in front of me and blam, great productivity.

 

[Zeeman]

Tricky part is... I'm not in a 1st workd country anymore. I now live part time in manila, Philippines, and just getting hold of a Logitech K830 is an absolute mission. I actually gave up...

So, I either bring it in, or, I can give someone a design and get it made. Local labour is quite cheap (third world and all), so a good quality carpenter/welder isn't going to. real the. ank. In fact, it would probably be cheaper, but you really need to oay attention, as I learned with our current renovations. The locals tend to cut corners out of habit (everyone wants cheap), they very rarely have a case where someone is happy to pay more for a better job. They are remaking out cabinet doors for the third time...

When they get it right, though, life is good. Getting hold of quality stuff here is hard, and when it is available, the price is general 2-3 times that of the US, or even Aus (which is where I used to live, and now life part time). I did see a car racing setup today at a local gaming store, it's about $400, but can't remember the brand. I'll have another look in the next few days, but I am thinking I may be best off tryong to design it from the ground up, building small scale models as I go.


edit -it's a "Playseat". Need to research if it's any good or not...
Z...

 

[Exigeous]

...I now live part time in manila, Philippines,

Very cool, I'm jealous as I'd love to live in a foreign country someday. I love the US but want to see more of the world.

...I can give someone a design and get it made.

If you look around you should be able to find some plans/designs that someone else made and use them. Check out www.isrtv.com - great site for sim racing and pretty sure they'd have plans in the forum somewhere. A few modifications and it's racing and flight.

...I did see a car racing setup today at a local gaming store, it's about $400

If you see it again and can let me know what the parts are (brand, etc.) I can maybe advise. From what you've said though I'm guessing it's not that high end given the price.

 

[Zeeman]

Very cool, I'm jealous as I'd love to live in a foreign country someday. I love the US but want to see more of the world.

It's actually pretty awesome, and things have come a long way since I was first here 10 years ago. Food quality and choice, in particular is quite good now, with all the usual options most would expect in first workd cities. Internet kinda sucks - 4G/LTE in particular is hopeless, the local telcos focus on market share, resulting in plans where, so long as you have about 10crnts in your account, Facebook and youtube are free. So the networks are congested with selfies and cat videos, heaven help you if tour trying to run a business and want to send an email with a $100 a month phone plan...

If you look around you should be able to find some plans/designs that someone else made and use them. Check out www.isrtv.com - great site for sim racing and pretty sure they'd have plans in the forum somewhere. A few modifications and it's racing and flight.

[\quote]
Thanks for that!
[\quote]
If you see it again and can let me know what the parts are (brand, etc.) I can maybe advise. From what you've said though I'm guessing it's not that high end given the price.

It's a Playseat Evolution. Looks like an "Affordable" seat based on a quick Google, though seems to review ok.

Z...

 

[Exigeous]

It's a Playseat Evolution. Looks like an "Affordable" seat

I've never owned one but they do get positive reviews and are rather popular. They're nice as you can move them around and some even fold up to fit in a closet. You're also right that they are cheaper than most other options but I think that's a bit short sighted. Sure you can get one new for say $300 where you can get a base Obutto Ozone like I have shipped for about $450 (in the States anyway). While that makes it 50% more expensive you get a lot for that extra $150. Fully adjustable seat on sliders, very solid construction, many attachments for mounting gear, triple monitor mount, 5.1 audio, etc. etc. If someone is pinching every penny then the Playseat is great (again it can fold where my Ozone has a room dedicated to it).

 

[Zeeman]

Oh believe me, I am the last person to cheap out unless it actually means getting a better product. The seat is actually the main thong at this stage, as I can only seem to find. rand new car racing seats here - all selling for over $500. The main thing will be being able to adapt it to a coffee table, so either the seat needs to be able to fold forward, or I need to work out a mechanism where the seat section folds forward. Our place is about 40m square (430sq feet), so, sadly, no dedicating a room to it. On the positice side, I own a business that specialises in home automation and audio/video, so I already have a surround system built i to the wall and ceilings, with a 75" 4k TV destined for the wall where the cockpit rig goes, though it'll be mainly used in VR.

BTW - don't suppose you could tell me the measurement between the back of the seat and where the pedals sit on your rig?

Z...

 

[Exigeous]

...I can only seem to find. rand new car racing seats here - all selling for over $500.

Have you searched on some local racing sites? Try groups like NASA and SCCA or search for forums for Miatas and BMW M3s. Lots of cars around on the track so you might get lucky there. $500 isn't bad but that's not super cheap. Here's a Sparco R100 seat new for $300.

...needs to be able to fold forward, or I need to work out a mechanism where the seat section folds forward

Finding a real racing seat that folds like that will be next to impossible - the issue is racing series, all I know of at least, require a fixed back seat for safety reasons. The Sparco is adjustable but that's because it's a "street" seat and not a "racing" seat. For your purpose you don't care at all.

don't suppose you could tell me the measurement between the back of the seat and where the pedals sit on your rig?

Happy to - but clarify what you need. From the farthest back my seat is to the front of the pedals or where they are against the wall, basically the longest the whole rig is. If you'd like I could do a simple walk around video with my tape measure getting all kinds of measurements.

 

[Zeeman]

Have you searched on some local racing sites? Try groups like NASA and SCCA or search for forums for Miatas and BMW M3s. Lots of cars around on the track so you might get lucky there. $500 isn't bad but that's not super cheap. Here's a Sparco R100 seat new for $300.

A bit harder in the Philippines, rules and regs tend to be "optional" here.

However...

Finding a real racing seat that folds like that will be next to impossible - the issue is racing series, all I know of at least, require a fixed back seat for safety reasons. The Sparco is adjustable but that's because it's a "street" seat and not a "racing" seat. For your purpose you don't care at all.

This pretty much rules out racing seats anyway, so may just start looking at wrecking places for a light car seat. Or, just buy an Ozone/Playseat and use the seat only. Though, seems Obutto don't sell their goods here, and postage would be as much as the seat. Plus duties...

Happy to - but clarify what you need. From the farthest back my seat is to the front of the pedals or where they are against the wall, basically the longest the whole rig is. If you'd like I could do a simple walk around video with my tape measure getting all kinds of measurements.

Back of seat to back of pedals, though a walk around would be awesome.

This will give you an idea of what I am trying to achieve (and not for $7000!!!) It will be rustic in style, and needs to allow for HOTAS, and I hope - a collective for chopper sims. I need to try and make it all fold, but still be adjustable to some degree. Does the ozone seat fold forward, btw?

This is actually what I really need, and then mod the seat to fit the table (the metal frame lifts it too high, I think...)
Z