Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[AceFlares]

It won't work. You can't have a fixed FP view for turrets when they are dotted all over the ship, It's not like an SRV turret where it is one emplacement in one place, there could be 3 turrets spread a hundred metres apart! Only way it would work is a view external to the ship, disembodied from the CMDRs head.

It makes me loose a little faith in humanity that people so concerned with a FP view cannot visualise this in FP and how it would not work

Yes you can. As already stated, there are already multi weapon remote fire control systems in existence. In Elite's case a couple of external target acquisition cameras on the hull with multiple turrets slaved to each would be perfectly acceptable and work just fine.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Oh hey look, the prototypical 'mersion troll.

 

[lysan]

It won't work. You can't have a fixed FP view for turrets when they are dotted all over the ship, It's not like an SRV turret where it is one emplacement in one place, there could be 3 turrets spread a hundred metres apart! Only way it would work is a view external to the ship, disembodied from the CMDRs head.

It makes me loose a little faith in humanity that people so concerned with a FP view cannot visualise this in FP and how it would not work

It will work just fine, there are many examples of it working, just back off a bit in the this thread and read.

 

[CylonSurfer]

And, you may note, those games that are touted as simulators - FSX, Prepar3D, X-Plane, Kerbal Space Simulator, and many combat flight sims, all have pilot 3rd-party views with full vanity-cam utility, even (where appropriate) in combat.

This is how this game was marketed:
"In "Elite: Dangerous" you fly a spaceship using a first person from-the-cockpit view, building on the elements from the previous games"
Clearly this feature (or the SRV turret) is not aligned with that at all.

 

[Muetdhiver]

This is how this game was marketed:
"In "Elite: Dangerous" you fly a spaceship using a first person from-the-cockpit view, building on the elements from the previous games"

And it is. The gunner is not flying the ship, is he now ?

 

[lysan]

And, you may note, those games that are touted as simulators - FSX, Prepar3D, X-Plane, Kerbal Space Simulator, and many combat flight sims, all have pilot 3rd-party views with full vanity-cam utility, even (where appropriate) in combat.

Yes but when in a multi crew session you can't use it to fight, a tiny little detail

 

[CMDR Ofan]

Agreed.



So a "holo-me" wouldnt be able to move from turret one to turret two? But can move from ship A to ship B no matter the distance. Right on.

Latency would make it untenable. You think it's a good system to hop slowly between turrets and then aim and re-orient with the squishy human brain to try and follow a ship moving at what could potentially be 1km a second relative? No way could players do that. It does not work.

 

[Stryka Choon]

This is how this game was marketed:
"In "Elite: Dangerous" you fly a spaceship using a first person from-the-cockpit view, building on the elements from the previous games"

Yep, and that's how I will continue to 'fly a spaceship'. However, I'll have fun (remember that?) using the camera to watch my ship and take pretty pics. I probably won't get involved in multi-crew, but I hope those that do have fun doing it.

 

[AceFlares]

And, you may note, those games that are touted as simulators - FSX, Prepar3D, X-Plane, Kerbal Space Simulator, and many combat flight sims, all have pilot 3rd-party views with full vanity-cam utility, even (where appropriate) in combat.

Vanity cams are very nice. I like ship twirling. I don't think that is the issue. Try flying a combat sim in 3rd person see how long you last against someone who isn't...

 

[lysan]

This is how this game was marketed:
"In "Elite: Dangerous" you fly a spaceship using a first person from-the-cockpit view, building on the elements from the previous games"
Clearly this feature (or the SRV turret) is not aligned with that at all.

Lets blame the consoles, it's because the are developing it for PS4 and X-bone audience

 

[CylonSurfer]

And it is. The gunner is not flying the ship, is he now ?

...Flyng in a ship, yes.. well kinda with the "holo me" kak.. I'm sure that quote gives you an idea of why people purchased this game and not a third person one.

- - - Updated - - -

Lets blame the consoles, it's because the are developing it for PS4 and X-bone audience

I couldn't do that - its clearly done this way due to money VS time. That doesn't make it right and raises some serious questions about the continued development of this title.

 

[Whitehair]

This is how this game was marketed:
"In "Elite: Dangerous" you fly a spaceship using a first person from-the-cockpit view, building on the elements from the previous games"
Clearly this feature (or the SRV turret) is not aligned with that at all.

In "Elite: Dangerous Horizons" you get added possibilites such as planetary SRV's and external ship camera's.

 

[Stryka Choon]

Vanity cams are very nice. I like ship twirling. I don't think that is the issue. Try flying a combat sim in 3rd person see how long you last against someone who isn't...

The reason for the 3rd-person camera view in combat sims is to compensate for the very restricted field of view and responsiveness of that field of view when in front of a flat monitor. It helps restore the kind of flexibility of view that a real pilot has from a real cockpit. Those lucky enough to have a headtracker or VR have a slightly better field of view, but still nothing like reality. The in-cockpit displays also help the situational awareness of the pilot, but in different ways. Using either in-cockpit or out-of-cockpit views will carry both advantages and disadvantages.

Visual combat is more of a game thing than a reality thing anyway, so it's down to whatever makes it more fun.

Incidentally, those arguing against the gunnery cams appear to have little knowledge of what augmented reality is already bringing to advanced, 21st-century weaponry.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Yes you can. As already stated, there are already multi weapon remote fire control systems in existence. In Elite's case a couple of external target acquisition cameras on the hull with multiple turrets slaved to each would be perfectly acceptable and work just fine.

Which could be the same thing except we remove the ship from view and put the camera slightly outward from the hull.

The computer take all turret guncam views and put together a simulated one large gunnery view with the ship hidden and instead a directional indicator of the ships direction.

Which could THEN extrapolate a simulated 3rd person view for the turret gunner.

Essentially the same result since i imagine we have that tech in 900 years.

 

[CMDR Ofan]

Yes you can. As already stated, there are already multi weapon remote fire control systems in existence. In Elite's case a couple of external target acquisition cameras on the hull with multiple turrets slaved to each would be perfectly acceptable and work just fine.

They exist but they would be substandard, not an attack on you but on those systems. They are not responsive enough for the speeds and ranges you encoutner in this game. They will not cut it

 

[Winterwalker]

Which could be the same thing except we remove the ship from view and put the camera slightly outward from the hull.

The computer take all turret guncam views and put together a simulated one large gunnery view with the ship hidden and instead a directional indicator of the ships direction.

Which could THEN extrapolate a simulated 3rd person view for the turret gunner.

Essentially the same result since i imagine we have that tech in 900 years.

We have the technology now. Parking assistants use a similar tech all the time. All you have to remember, is the Gunner View is seeing a representation of the ship (composited into camera images taken from the ship) rather than seeing a direct view of the ship (taken by a camera outside it). Zoom, pan, translate the view = all good.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

This is how this game was marketed:
"In "Elite: Dangerous" you fly a spaceship using a first person from-the-cockpit view, building on the elements from the previous games"
Clearly this feature (or the SRV turret) is not aligned with that at all.

And we are still flying said ship from 1st person view.

Turret control in Elite II for example was 3rd person.

And with multiple turrets controlled from 1 gunner it would create problems.

 

[andrak]

Frontier please reuse the limpet asset as a drone that matches the gunners movement around the ship. Let's call it the "camera limpet" for now.

Make it a sub system

Make it targetable and let us destroy it to jam the turret view for 20-30 seconds.

The ship can then refire the camera limpet automativally at no cost or without any need to carry actual limpets.

Add digitisation/ degradation / quirks to the gunners view to give the impression that they are looking through a camera or sensor.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

They exist but they would be substandard, not an attack on you but on those systems. They are not responsive enough for the speeds and ranges you encoutner in this game. They will not cut it

You know, I would love if they built on that.

- Sensor rating equals sensor size X cameras in each facing.
- Missile damage on hull can damage cameras
- Loosing a facing means becoming "blind" when turning a turret in that direction
- having a larger sensor means more cameras in each direction that can see even if one is destroyed.

This would also make me accept that a sensor package of S8 at 40 tonnes have an explanation to the difference in weight when they function just as well as a S1.

 

[Bobbydylan]

They exist but they would be substandard, not an attack on you but on those systems. They are not responsive enough for the speeds and ranges you encoutner in this game. They will not cut it

I disagree. I think the limitations of those systems would actually be beneficial to the game. Right now, gunning is simply about pointing in the vague direction of the other ship and clicking Mouse 1. Requiring cohesion between pilot and gunner would make multi-pew a tiny bit more team-work oriented.