Hmm... how do I dock at hostile planetary stations?

[bubbabenali]

So, I'm on my way back to Nehet and my Spacetaxi has plenty of empty seats - why not bring 24 Tourists with me for the last 25Lys? Seems like easy 500k cr...

Well not really because the desired dropout is controlled by a faction thatsn - thanks to excessive bounty hunting - is fully hostile to me.

Coulnd't you not just warn me befor I took the mission? Every factor, like ship size or cargo space are taken into considderation, but the standing to a controlling faction isn't checked?

What if the mission get's an mission critical update to such a station? Is there at least an eject button to flush the "Tourists" or let me sell them as slaves or whatever.

 

[cmdr_Havalok]

You can try to speed dock...can't remember if the hostile station will hold off if shooting if you can avoid a scan. I thought so but I'm not 100% on that.

To speed dock, drop out of SC and stay 8-10 KM out. Line up with the mail slot head in full throttle starting with a boost. Initiate the Dock Request at 7 KM and stay on the throttle. DOn;t slow or deploy gear till you are just about in the slot. That should dodge any scans.

 

[BACKER #-4112]

Hostiles won't grant you landing access.

Best bet is to increase your reputation with them at a nearby base/station where they have a presence.

Except it will take a while.

 

[bubbabenali]

Yeah, I just threw them out, there was no way to get "not hostile" with the subfaction in 2h...

 

[bootsam]

DOn;t slow or deploy gear till you are just about in the slot. That should dodge any scans.

I assume you earn credits scraping ships off the rear of stations.

Drop throttle to zero at 2.5-3km out. Your momentum will carry you through. Drop landing gear and deploy cargo scoop just about as you enter. This slows you quickly but they do take a bit of time to deply. I'd advise practising hot entry in a cheap ship and a friendly station.

 

[babelfisch]

Don't become hostile. That are the consequences. Not the games fault.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

i dont know, perhaps this is a situation where one should know who ones enemies are, or at least the CMDR should.

But at the same time, how would one know when a station can change faction ownership if that station IS controlled by a faction that hates you?

I would love to see a top 10 of the following in a status window:

- Top 10 factions that are HOSTILE or HATES me
- Top 10 factions who LOVE me

 

[bubbabenali]

Don't become hostile. That are the consequences. Not the games fault.

The Problem is, that some factions are rather fast hostile to someone and you can't always be everybodys darling - be it because the pesky lokal pirate faction interdicts or a compeding faction is because I helped the lokal favorite.

Sometimes new targets are not optional and when that happens in mid mission of a 2mill transport it's rather unplesand.
Granted I didn't check my standing to the lokal subfactions when I took that mission; But hey, there are only a billion in the game, what can go wrong?

- - - Updated - - -

You can try to speed dock...can't remember if the hostile station will hold off if shooting if you can avoid a scan. I thought so but I'm not 100% on that.

To speed dock, drop out of SC and stay 8-10 KM out. Line up with the mail slot head in full throttle starting with a boost. Initiate the Dock Request at 7 KM and stay on the throttle. DOn;t slow or deploy gear till you are just about in the slot. That should dodge any scans.

Nah, it's a planetary station on top, so no Speed-slotting, not even an answer to my docking request.

 

[Jmanis]

It's impossible to dock, and is a dumb feature of the game that causes some ridiculous scenarios in the game because hostile is simply a "punishment".

You used to be able to dock with a combination of silent running and skillful piloting. Now the station will simply flatly deny docking rights.

Being Hostile needs to be made a state that is as desirable as being Allied, but for different reasons.

Some of those ridiculous scenarios include, but aren't limited to:
- Removing your ability to fight in a war triggered by you. (If the system has one station, and you happen to be hostile to that faction, you can't participate in the war)
- Fighting in a war won't reduce your rep with the opposed faction, because it's dumb game design to punish the player for playing the game.
- Black Market sales (which damage a faction's control) won't reduce your reputation.
- The best way to overthrow other factions who control systems actually lead you to becoming allied.

 

[bootsam]

Ah, planetary. Yeah speed docking wont work. But youve ejected them anyways. Hate it when stuff like that happens.

 

[babelfisch]

The Problem is, that some factions are rather fast hostile to someone and you can't always be everybodys darling - be it because the pesky lokal pirate faction interdicts or a compeding faction is because I helped the lokal favorite.

Which is one of the only consequences in the entire game and the only thing that gives you at least the idea of being an individual.

Sometimes new targets are not optional and when that happens in mid mission of a 2mill transport it's rather unplesand.

This will be changed with 2.3. Already promised by the devs

Granted I didn't check my standing to the lokal subfactions when I took that mission; But hey, there are only a billion in the game, what can go wrong?

Keep track of your enemies
Anyway, maybe your idea of showing status in the mission summary isn't bad, I'd say create a thread in the suggestions forum. There is a chance that devs will see it.

- - - Updated - - -

It's impossible to dock, and is a dumb feature of the game that causes some ridiculous scenarios in the game because hostile is simply a "punishment".

You used to be able to dock with a combination of silent running and skillful piloting. Now the station will simply flatly deny docking rights.

Being Hostile needs to be made a state that is as desirable as being Allied, but for different reasons.

Some of those ridiculous scenarios include, but aren't limited to:
- Removing your ability to fight in a war triggered by you.
- Fighting in a war won't reduce your rep with the opposed faction, because it's dumb game design to punish the player for playing the game.
- Black Market sales (which damage a faction's control) won't reduce your reputation.

I disagree with everything you said and I think your suggestions don't make any sense.

 

[Jmanis]

I disagree with everything you said and I think your suggestions don't make any sense.

So tell me. Why does it make sense that, having come from a battlefield after destroying 100 ships belonging to faction X, would that same faction let me dock at their station to repair/rearm? Because that's what currently happens.

 

[babelfisch]

So tell me. Why does it make sense that, having come from a battlefield after destroying 100 ships belonging to faction X, would that same faction let me dock at their station to repair/rearm? Because that's what currently happens.

Sorry, didn't see that the "different reasons" are a link. I disagree with point 1 because it's entirely artificial and point 3 because I think they just shouldn't let you dock at their stations. I don't invite my enemies either, unless I want to stab them in the back. I think point 2 is good though.

After re-reading your ridiculous scenarios I have to admit that I misinterpreted them, but I still don't understand half of it

 

[Jmanis]

Sorry, didn't see that the "different reasons" are a link. I disagree with point 1 because it's entirely artificial and point 3 because I think they just shouldn't let you dock at their stations. I don't invite my enemies either, unless I want to stab them in the back. I think point 2 is good though.

After re-reading your ridiculous scenarios I have to admit that I misinterpreted them, but I still don't understand half of it

OK, so let me rephrase somewhat.

Hostile *should* lock you out of stations. I think it's a good and logical move, for the reasons you mention.

Things that make you hostile currently are:
- Blatant criminal actions (murder, being caught smuggling)
- Failing missions

Failing missions isn't something people aim to do (unless stealing cargo; that's a bit of a separate issue). Being caught smuggling is essentially a "fail" state, and murder is a bit neither here nor there (murder during an assasination, or killing a trade ship after it drops cargo... penalty plus reward so it's kinda reasonable).

Things that *should* make you hostile but don't are:
- Undertaking missions that undermine the influence of that faction
- Fighting in wars for bonds
- Black market trading (maybe? there's some logical arguments that it shouldn't)

The problem is, these are all activities we're meant to engage, whether for BGS or profit. It would be terrible design for FD to go "Oh look, you're enjoying that activity, so we're going to lock you out of it" by making you hostile when undertaking these activities. That's because hostile is just a punishment state, i.e you are:
- locked out of the station
- KOS to that faction.

What should happen is that, when you become Hostile to a faction, it should enable means for you to interact with other factions to continue usurping the faction you are Hostile to, despite not being able to dock. You should also be able to fight in a war, become hostile, and still hand in those war bonds for the influence effect, but not necessarily to the Hostile station. That way, after being constantly KOS to that faction, your "reprieve" is that you're clean and allied when your supported faction comes to power.

But yeah, that gets spannered in the current game mechanics, because as soon as you become hostile to the faction in control, that's it, your campaign has ended. Too bad, so sad, wait a few more days before you're allowed to contribute to this war?

tl;dr
Allied with a faction is a rewarding state if you continue supporting that faction
Hostile with a faction *should* be a rewarding state for ongoing antagonism on that faction, in exchange for the punishment of being locked out and KOS. But no such mechanics exist around that

PS: Funnily enough, can you imagine the uproar of CZ massacre mission stackers got locked out of the station by undertaking those missions...

 

[goemon]

Yeah, I just threw them out, there was no way to get "not hostile" with the subfaction in 2h...

it takes 1-2 medium rep missions or ~150 k cr in bounties/bonds to go from hostile to unfriendly.

 

[babelfisch]

OK, so let me rephrase somewhat.

Hostile *should* lock you out of stations. I think it's a good and logical move, for the reasons you mention.

Things that make you hostile currently are:
- Blatant criminal actions (murder, being caught smuggling)
- Failing missions

Failing missions isn't something people aim to do (unless stealing cargo; that's a bit of a separate issue). Being caught smuggling is essentially a "fail" state, and murder is a bit neither here nor there (murder during an assasination, or killing a trade ship after it drops cargo... penalty plus reward so it's kinda reasonable).

Things that *should* make you hostile but don't are:
- Undertaking missions that undermine the influence of that faction
- Fighting in wars for bonds
- Black market trading (maybe? there's some logical arguments that it shouldn't)

The problem is, these are all activities we're meant to engage, whether for BGS or profit. It would be terrible design for FD to go "Oh look, you're enjoying that activity, so we're going to lock you out of it" by making you hostile when undertaking these activities. That's because hostile is just a punishment state, i.e you are:
- locked out of the station
- KOS to that faction.

What should happen is that, when you become Hostile to a faction, it should enable means for you to interact with other factions to continue usurping the faction you are Hostile to, despite not being able to dock. You should also be able to fight in a war, become hostile, and still hand in those war bonds for the influence effect, but not necessarily to the Hostile station. That way, after being constantly KOS to that faction, your "reprieve" is that you're clean and allied when your supported faction comes to power.

But yeah, that gets spannered in the current game mechanics, because as soon as you become hostile to the faction in control, that's it, your campaign has ended. Too bad, so sad, wait a few more days before you're allowed to contribute to this war?

tl;dr
Allied with a faction is a rewarding state if you continue supporting that faction
Hostile with a faction *should* be a rewarding state for ongoing antagonism on that faction, in exchange for the punishment of being locked out and KOS. But no such mechanics exist around that

PS: Funnily enough, can you imagine the uproar of CZ massacre mission stackers got locked out of the station by undertaking those missions...

In that case I absolutely agree with you

Handing in combat bonds would be a real problem for systems with just one station / expansions when one faction isn't present yet.

Some ideas:
- turn the combat bonds in by flying to the home system
- use the new mega ships as movable war assets that you can use to refuel, restock and turn in combat bonds when in enemy territory
- add checkpoints and let us turn bonds in via comms

 

[Winterwalker]

In every problem of course, is there a possible game opportunity?

Long term, would it be great? .. if you could contact a blackmarket contact on a hostile station, to sneak you an illegal landing permit. That might expire in 2.5 minutes or expires if you get scanned .. with either case being your certain death.

In the meantime, the passengers are certainly dead. May they RIP.

 

[bubbabenali]

it takes 1-2 medium rep missions or ~150 k cr in bounties/bonds to go from hostile to unfriendly.

Problem no1: I'm in a completely unarmed Clipper and my other ships don't have passenger cabines equiped
Problem no2: There is only one station in the System with an "ambassador" and he only give crappy missions that are mostly killing related...