Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[CylonSurfer]

That's the problem though, Frontier didn't design the game with enough thought about the implications of Multicrew and first person. Which is probably at least partly why has taken this long to get it out. I've been worried about how the gunner would be introduced ever since I got my first 2 seater ship in early 2015.

It was intuitively obvious that other more SC-like solutions wouldn't work with the current bridge design or hardpoint layout. Elite is far more abstract and arcade like in general, unfortunately. And the Multicrew implementation is no exception.

It was obvious after the third person SRV cam. It has nothng to do with gameplay or hardpoint layout. Its a cheap shim used to save money and time. It has nothing to do with improving game play, its a box ticking exercise in order to deliver barely passable content.

 

[LeoBartlet]

yay for arcade cam 12yo version.

 

[NMS]

It was obvious after the third person SRV cam. It has nothng to do with gameplay or hardpoint layout. Its a cheap shim used to save money and time. It has nothing to do with improving game play, its a box ticking exercise in order to deliver barely passable content.

I also believe in this. Every update is always the same story, they announce something long ago but only really start developing (and thinking) on the eve of the release. And worse, after they launch, they take forever to make corrections or never do them, focusing on new updates.

 

[Chrysophylax]

It was obvious after the third person SRV cam. It has nothng to do with gameplay or hardpoint layout. Its a cheap shim used to save money and time. It has nothing to do with improving game play, its a box ticking exercise in order to deliver barely passable content.

I also believe in this. Every update is always the same story, they announce something long ago but only really start developing (and thinking) on the eve of the release.

Trust me guys, I am hugely critical of some decisions the devs make - powerplay, for instance - but I gotta be honest here a second. The only thing that describes what you guys are saying here is 'ignorant'.

I'll excuse you if you've never worked a software development job in any capacity. But nothing that approaches E's quality could ever be achieved if it was done on the back of a napkin so to speak.

Also this idea that things should instead be done in some way to maximize costs just to tickle your personal standard of 'good enough' is so completely backwards in the face of the realities of delivering a product like a video game that I just lmao

Like you guys are saying that because you don't like a feature then obviously it was done in 5 minutes and it's also bad lmao

 

[jnnnnn]

Yeah, what is wrong with you people? I think it looks great.

 

[Paramemetic]

I also believe in this. Every update is always the same story, they announce something long ago but only really start developing (and thinking) on the eve of the release. And worse, after they launch, they take forever to make corrections or never do them, focusing on new updates.

Actually, they tend to make really cool and fun lore consistent things, but then people who want to retcon the game lore out of existence so they can play a WW2 flight simulator come along and whine about how they don't like something and then they complain until the Devs have to redesign things and delay releases by months.



The 3PV camera is the most lore consistent solution, given that the technology exists in universe for spaceships to perfectly track objects in space around them (and simulate noises they make), and that a staple of the setting is that realer-than-life virtual reality is a thing. The 3PV camera is literally just a marriage of two already existing technologies, the simulated reality expert system (Arena, Navigational Computer), and the tracking sensors (sound simulation), which, combined, project a perfectly realistic third person view for your gunner to use.

It's entirely lore consistent, and it's also very fun and cool. The demo showed that it has obviously been given a lot of attention and is very consistent with the lore, they've clearly been working on this for a long time. If there are delays, it will be because a lot of people who for whatever reason do not like or understand the Elite series of games want to retcon it into some kind of spaceships-are-submarines-and-it's-1937 style game.

It's okay that you don't understand the Elite canon, because there's a lot of it and a lot of it has been explained through multiple generations of games as easter eggs or in descriptions and so on, but all of the technologies people are complaining about in this update are 100% consistent with the lore of these games.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Trust me guys, I am hugely critical of some decisions the devs make - powerplay, for instance - but I gotta be honest here a second. The only thing that describes what you guys are saying here is 'ignorant'.

So please do explain the 3rd person cam for the SRV. Was it a cheap and quick way to impliment a turret or the best way? Clearly, no new assets needed to be made, just a quick UI and it offered no game play advantage in a game which the developers clearly stated wouldn't have 3rd person cameras. You don't find that odd? Developers just a few years ago said this wouldn't happen, yet first we have the SRV 3rd person cam and now this.... Yes. It's cheap and cheerful. It's not quality or in keeping with the core first person game play which made this game appeal to so many of us.

Yeah, what is wrong with you people? I think it looks great.

Its not first person in first person game. Its cheap and low effort - not what people expected from this game or its developers who stated this would never happen. It goes against the "vision" of the game they said they had and sold to us.

@ Paramemetic
This has nothing to do with lore or immersion but how the game was sold to early adopters and backers - a first person experience. This is not that.

 

[Paramemetic]

So please do explain the 3rd person cam for the SRV. Was it a cheap and quick way to impliment a turret or the best way? Clearly, no new assets needed to be made, just a quick UI and it offered no game play advantage in a game which the developers clearly stated wouldn't have 3rd person cameras. You don't find that odd? Developers just a few years ago said this wouldn't happen, yet first we have the SRV 3rd person cam and now this.... Yes. It's cheap and cheerful. It's not quality or in keeping with the core first person game play which made this game appeal to so many of us.



Its not first person in first person game. Its cheap and low effort - not what people expected from this game or its developers who stated this would never happen.

Literally cars IRL in the year of our lord 2017 do top-down projected third person views but I guess literally 1000 years from now that is the pinnacle of augmented reality. It makes a lot of sense to me that humanity will have spread to the stars but will still be going "well, 3rd person simulated views from vehicles peaked in 2017, that's it. Even to attempt to do anything more is just insane."

Look at yourself. You're arguing that people in 3303 should not have technology that we have in 2017. Have you confused Elite with some kind of Battletech hellscape and simulated perspectives for better control of a vehicle are Lostech? Just think about what you're saying.




Edit: Isn't the turret view in the SRV literally just a camera sitting on top of the SRV turret? It's not even like an actual third person, which, incidentally could easily be handled by an expert system in the Elite setting.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Literally cars IRL in the year of our lord 2017 do top-down projected third person views but I guess literally 1000 years from now that is the pinnacle of augmented reality. It makes a lot of sense to me that humanity will have spread to the stars but will still be going "well, 3rd person simulated views from vehicles peaked in 2017, that's it. Even to attempt to do anything more is just insane."

Look at yourself. You're arguing that people in 3303 should not have technology that we have in 2017. Have you confused Elite with some kind of Battletech hellscape and simulated perspectives for better control of a vehicle are Lostech? Just think about what you're saying.

No, I am stating that I purchased a game that was sold as a first person experience, with a focus on first person gameplay. This is not that. No matter how your imagination wants to explain it in game, the facts are its a yet another cheap third person camera in place or what should be a quality first person experience - not what was sold to us, the opposite of what developers told us.

 

[Sadbot]

I bought a game that was about flying spaceships, shooting other ships and trading.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I bought a game that was about flying spaceships, shooting other ships and trading.

Good for you. There are many. There are not so many first person games about flying spaceships, hence why I puchased this one - like many, to avoid 3rd person rubbish.

 

[Nuarb]

Its not first person in first person game. Its cheap and low effort - not what people expected from this game or its developers who stated this would never happen. It goes against the "vision" of the game they said they had and sold to us.

How is it not first person? Its 100% first person. Your character is viewing an external camera or VR visualization of data. You're still your character, its no different than looking at a backup camera in your car, or a f-35 pilot using data overlaid on their helmet display.

 

[Felix Dyson]

Good for you. There are many. There are not so many first person games about flying spaceships, hence why I puchased this one - like many, to avoid 3rd person rubbish.

I mean he spent the same money as you presumably so your purchases technically cancel each other out.

 

[jnnnnn]

like many

yeah nah

 

[Paramemetic]

@ Paramemetic
This has nothing to do with lore or immersion but how the game was sold to early adopters and backers - a first person experience. This is not that.

Oh okay cool, in that case I'm a guy who bought the game because I wanted a game that continually added new features and didn't limit itself or box itself in based on early concept ideas. Frontier delivered the game backers wanted, including mechanics that frankly are not good or cool at all in order to honor those promises. We're on a whole different season now, and it's a good thing if Frontier starts letting their game developers develop fun games rather than simply stopping development because "welp we've checked off all the boxes on our kickstarter now, guess that's it, pack it up."

It's a major failing of crowdfunding that backers think they should be allowed to hold a developer ransom for the life of a product rather than realizing that the only people Frontier are actually beholden to are their shareholders, and their obligation is to deliver fun cool games that people enjoy playing.

I for one couldn't be happier if Frontier dumps off some of the chaff people apparently pledged for in 2014 and continued to focus on making a cool game based on the established Elite canon.

 

[RamirezKurita]

How is it not first person? Its 100% first person. Your character is viewing an external camera or VR visualization of data. You're still your character, its no different than looking at a backup camera in your car, or a f-35 pilot using data overlaid on their helmet display.

Except you aren't viewing an external camera or anything like that, you are the camera. Your entire disembodied consciousness is floating around your ship like some aimbot ghost.

A first person view would be you, the pilot, sitting in a seat operating a holographic display and controls.

 

[Kermit Laphroaig]

No, I am stating that I purchased a game that was sold as a first person experience, with a focus on first person gameplay. This is not that. No matter how your imagination wants to explain it in game, the facts are its a yet another cheap third person camera in place or what should be a quality first person experience - not what was sold to us, the opposite of what developers told us.

So you are arguing basic 1200 year old technology is lost technology in the Elite universe? You are kinda dodging him here, he is explicitly saying it's not 'cheap', it's literally the way things are going right here on Earth, right now. It's not a loaded question, it's a fact

Also I don't know why you think anyone is going to be forcing you to play in a third person view. Just don't play as a gunner!

Incidentally, sir, do you play in Open? Think carefully, because this IS a loaded question.

 

[Nuarb]

Except you aren't viewing an external camera or anything like that, you are the camera. Your entire disembodied consciousness is floating around your ship like some aimbot ghost.

A first person view would be you, the pilot, sitting in a seat operating a holographic display and controls.

Right, its first person, but they're simulating a VR experience of visualizing the sensor data and reconstruction. If you're wearing a VR headset in real life this makes a little more sense to understand, but if you're playing on a monitor, just realize that the game is simulating, from a first person view, you viewing a VR simulation. The whole thing is first person.

 

[Paramemetic]

No, I am stating that I purchased a game that was sold as a first person experience, with a focus on first person gameplay. This is not that. No matter how your imagination wants to explain it in game, the facts are its a yet another cheap third person camera in place or what should be a quality first person experience - not what was sold to us, the opposite of what developers told us.

Can you, or can you not, fly your spaceship from the first person point of view?


Because I don't think I ever saw anywhere in Elite's promotional material: "exclusively first person, nobody will ever see the outside of a ship, your eyeballs will be simulated in your space face and you'll have to use a mirror to see yourself, that's how first person we're talking, and that's how exclusive."

I am pretty sure, I mean. . .


. . . Yup, I just logged in, and it turns out there is, in fact, a first person space flight experience and it is, in fact, the default experience. It looks to me that the game you bought, a first person experience with a focus on first person gameplay, is 100% there, mission accomplished.

 

[ED_Spider]

For how much this argument is going on how does this personally affect you and your game. How does this prevent you from playing and make it so the game is unplayable. Far as I can tell this camera argument will not effect anyone and the argument is nothing more then a circle of people yelling. If this effects you explain how in the game it will because all your doing is talking about it not being lore friendly. It's a game man let fdev develop.