General / Off-Topic A Confession

[Gortron]

So you agree its just an imperial construct that was just invented in the last few centuries to justify a colonial project. A bit of PR propaganda, as the history proves it. Then again you seem clueless about the history of your own country and happy in your ignorance. Have you thought of running for UKIP, could be a good fit.

And you asked me if I can read English. My understanding of history is a whole lot better than your understanding of geography.
I've broken it down for you:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archipelago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_archipelagos
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

British Isles
Other native names
* Breetish Isles(Scots)
* Ynysoedd Prydain(Welsh)
* Enesow Bretennek(Cornish)
* Éire agus an Bhreatain Mhór(Irish)[1]
* Eileanan Bhreatainn(Scottish Gaelic)[2]
* Ny h-Ellanyn Goaldagh(Manx)[3]
* Îles Britanniques(French)[4]
*

Now that really is me done wasting my time talking to you on the subject.

 

[Moonax IRL]

And you asked me if I can read English. My understanding of history is a whole lot better than your understanding of geography.
I've broken it down for you:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archipelago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_archipelagos
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

British Isles
Other native names
* Breetish Isles(Scots)
* Ynysoedd Prydain(Welsh)
* Enesow Bretennek(Cornish)
* Éire agus an Bhreatain Mhór(Irish)[1]
* Eileanan Bhreatainn(Scottish Gaelic)[2]
* Ny h-Ellanyn Goaldagh(Manx)[3]
* Îles Britanniques(French)[4]
*

Now that really is me done wasting my time talking to you on the subject.

Still doesn`t disprove my point and the history referenced proving that it was just a imperial construct of the last few centuries. I`m afraid the empire is gone and I`m proud of the fact the Irish did their part to bring down same. Next it will be just England and Wales, maybe the Welsh will grow a pair at some stage.

 

[Lianachan]

Some background info for those playing along at home.

 

[Zetta]

Some background info for those playing along at home.

I find calling them the Irish Isles usually has the effect I'm looking for.

 

[Adept]

I find calling them the Irish Isles usually has the effect I'm looking for.

I was thinking "the Celtic Isles" would also be historically accurate

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I didn't know it was such a contentious issue between you folks

 

[Gortron]

I was thinking "the Celtic Isles" would also be historically accurate

Until reading the rather interesting link provided by Lianachan I was unaware that there was a dispute or that it was such a big deal in Ireland. I can understand why it is though and I wouldn't be at all bothered if we started calling it something more neutral. It is just a geographical location name to me. I rather like "the Anglo-Celtic Isles". The island of Great Britain's name sort of stops making sense but meh.

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I didn't know it was such a contentious issue between you folks

Nor did I lol.

 

[Moonax IRL]

I was thinking "the Celtic Isles" would also be historically accurate

I`m afraid the British mentally never recovered from the fact the Irish kicked them out, giving them the boot, and still hanker for the good old days, hence claiming Irish actors/bands/culture/music/success as their own etc., https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2015/1215/753805-london-film-awards-no-longer-claiming-irish-stars/ & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71yVRPr4o4k. Really speaks poorly about ones own national identity when you feel its so precarious & lacking that you have to bolster it by trying to supplement it with the achievements and success of others from other countries.

I have seen some old conservative MP`s hoping that Ireland will return to the fold after Brexit etc. It is really quiet laughable and sad that such delusions persist in what you would have thought were educated people. It shows a persistent lack of security in their own identity, surely there must be something England has besides morris dancing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZjLATAUwao, I cant see this going on a world tour anytime soon.

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I didn't know it was such a contentious issue between you folks

I think they should start handing out world atlases to kids in US schools, it is always nice to actually know the actual location of the country that you are invading.

 

[verminstar]

I was thinking "the Celtic Isles" would also be historically accurate

Ironically enough, as someone who identifies as a loyalist, I have no issues with 'the celtic isles' whatsoever. Heard it described as such many times when I was in the states, although this was much further south that the republican heartland of boston where the locals were fed some romantic notion that the irish rebels were men of honour...haha...it was laughable listening to the stories in the US considering Ive spent almost my entire life here in Ulster.

Tis not a bad thing OP...its just that many the stories the rest of the world were fed by republican sympathizers was complete and utter bollox. The real truth however was far too ugly to put into a good fundraising fairytale in the bars of boston and elsewhere, so its an easy misconception to make without having both sides of the story.

Fear not however...we have our very own resident historians here who can saythat africa did not actually populate the entire world back when the simple wheel was an irish first invention...the irish populated africa who then went and populated everywhere else, only to go back a couple thousand years later and tell the savages that contraception was the most evil of sins, culminating in a population explosion. Although the british gets the blame fer everything because the irish were saints and martyrs.

Have fun with that, lemme know how it goes ^

 

[Moonax IRL]

Ironically enough, as someone who identifies as a loyalist, I have no issues with 'the celtic isles' whatsoever. Heard it described as such many times when I was in the states, although this was much further south that the republican heartland of boston where the locals were fed some romantic notion that the irish rebels were men of honour...haha...it was laughable listening to the stories in the US considering Ive spent almost my entire life here in Ulster.

Tis not a bad thing OP...its just that many the stories the rest of the world were fed by republican sympathizers was complete and utter bollox. The real truth however was far too ugly to put into a good fundraising fairytale in the bars of boston and elsewhere, so its an easy misconception to make without having both sides of the story.

Fear not however...we have our very own resident historians here who can saythat africa did not actually populate the entire world back when the simple wheel was an irish first invention...the irish populated africa who then went and populated everywhere else, only to go back a couple thousand years later and tell the savages that contraception was the most evil of sins, culminating in a population explosion. Although the british gets the blame fer everything because the irish were saints and martyrs.

Have fun with that, lemme know how it goes ^

I think I have blown your truth fantasies out of the water multiple times.

 

[Lianachan]

I was thinking "the Celtic Isles" would also be historically accurate

It wouldn't really, of course.

 

[verminstar]

I think I have blown your truth fantasies out of the water multiple times.

Really? First Ive heard of it considering ye conveniently ignored a great many the examples argued at the time...ye never even tried to tackle them with a passing shot let alone blow anything outta the water. Only thing yer blowing is hot air which could be a by product of those ancient books of fairytales ye seem to live yer life in ^

Yer so immersed in yer own self righteousness that I really do think yer incapable of discussing anything less than half a century old which Im sorry to say, very few of us had anything to do with. All the fault of the imperialist british hmm? Nothing to do with bigots who live their life in the past...sound familiar? Should do...Im describing you to a tee ^

 

[Gortron]

I see Moonrax has gone into Bigot mode again. Looks like we are in for the full display this month. It is a shame that nobody can say the trigger word 'Ireland' without it happening. I thought it was 'Northern Ireland' before and that this thread would get away with it.

I can't imagine a majority of British people would object to a change in what we call the group of Islands. It isn't politically loaded in the U.K. Like it is apparently is in Ireland. In fact it is a non issue.

 

[verminstar]

I see Moonrax has gone into Bigot mode again. Looks like we are in for the full display this month. It is a shame that nobody can say the trigger word 'Ireland' without it happening. I thought it was 'Northern Ireland' before and that this thread would get away with it.

I can't imagine a majority of British people would object to a change in what we call the group of Islands. It isn't politically loaded in the U.K. Like it is apparently is in Ireland. In fact it is a non issue.

Ye think thats bad? Hark back a decade or two and the controversay ove3r attempting to change the name of our second city from Londonderry, to Derry, to City of Derry, to Doire, to Derry/Londonderry because neither side could agree and decided to call them both names with a slash in between.

Its pettiness on a whole other level...tribal politics which just about anyone in the entire off topic section is one the parts of the last century we need to walk away from.

I even admit Im likely to be biased because I grew up in the very worst of it...I was there and still have the scars to prove it...some physical and a great many mental.

Ask me where Im from? Ulster...Im an Ulsterman and proud of it. All the other names are just fluff to me...they dont mean anything to me ^

 

[Zetta]

I see Moonrax has gone into Bigot mode again. Looks like we are in for the full display this month. It is a shame that nobody can say the trigger word 'Ireland' without it happening. I thought it was 'Northern Ireland' before and that this thread would get away with it.

I can't imagine a majority of British people would object to a change in what we call the group of Islands. It isn't politically loaded in the U.K. Like it is apparently is in Ireland. In fact it is a non issue.

That's the thing though isn't it. Britain was the suppressor and their actions didn't really affect the British people so the general populace has no need to feel anything about it. The Irish people on the other hand were the ones that had been suppressed so of course it's an issue for some of them.
When you have the suppressor telling the suppressed that they should just get over it, it's an additional slap in the face. A person would have to be quite bigotted to not see that.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Really? First Ive heard of it considering ye conveniently ignored a great many the examples argued at the time...ye never even tried to tackle them with a passing shot let alone blow anything outta the water. Only thing yer blowing is hot air which could be a by product of those ancient books of fairytales ye seem to live yer life in ^

Yer so immersed in yer own self righteousness that I really do think yer incapable of discussing anything less than half a century old which Im sorry to say, very few of us had anything to do with. All the fault of the imperialist british hmm? Nothing to do with bigots who live their life in the past...sound familiar? Should do...Im describing you to a tee ^

Oh yes, the great loyalist defender's whom I showed were incompetent, hapless, drunken sectarian murderers and state stooges. Sorry to shatter the tranquillity of your loyalist fantasies with the facts and disturb the calm of your goldfish bowl. It's alright though, loyalist only seem to have the limited memory of a goldfish so it will be fine when you wake up in the morning and come out from underneath your union jack duvet.

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I see Moonrax has gone into Bigot mode again. Looks like we are in for the full display this month. It is a shame that nobody can say the trigger word 'Ireland' without it happening. I thought it was 'Northern Ireland' before and that this thread would get away with it.

I can't imagine a majority of British people would object to a change in what we call the group of Islands. It isn't politically loaded in the U.K. Like it is apparently is in Ireland. In fact it is a non issue.

Bigoted for pointing out the truth and obivous, you're showing your limited IQ here, spitting out the dummy in the process.

 

[verminstar]

That's the thing though isn't it. Britain was the suppressor and their actions didn't really affect the British people so the general populace has no need to feel anything about it. The Irish people on the other hand were the ones that had been suppressed so of course it's an issue for some of them.
When you have the suppressor telling the suppressed that they should just get over it, it's an additional slap in the face. A person would have to be quite bigotted to not see that.

Not quite as simple as that though...the suppression has always been there and terrible things did indeed take place. Nobody is denying that...not even gonna try and argue otherwise. The problem I have as a loyalist is that I can indeed fully respect their rights to identify as Irish...but only if they respect my rights to identify as british. Its called mutual respect and I see none of that here...all I see here is the british did this, the british did that, all their fault and they should have it rubbed in at every opportunity...thats the actions of a bigot. And bigots do indeed exist on both sides, and I know that fer a fact as I see it every single day in real life.

If they dont respect my beliefs, then to hell with theirs. Respect works both ways or not at all. Not my fault that history panned out like that...I wasnt even born so what this has to do with me, Im still trying to figure out.

Ive lost a lotta family and friends to the troubles of the last 4 decades...both catholic and protestant, and I recognize a bigot when I see one. Regardless where my roots lie, my family can be traced back to the early 17th century here when the trail runs cold on a french prisoner of war...maybe I should identify as being french. Thing is, my family has a long history of serving the british in military roles in both world wars among others...as british soldiers. My family has been british fer centuries basically and came from Leitrim until they were burned out of their own home in the 1960s.

I know...the shock of learning that happened on both sides can be hard to take in but it did. An oft ignored period where the irish were just as bad as those they hated...no those stories dont get asked for much because many would claim it never happened at all. Twas only the irish who felt the boots of oppresion on their throats wasnt it?

Thing is, Im now expected to identify as being Irish and some think I should feel ashamed of my british heritage...Im afraid its not quite that black and white however. Thats like saying americans should feel bad about where they came from when they found their lands uninhabited ^

 

[Lianachan]

That's the thing though isn't it. Britain was the suppressor and their actions didn't really affect the British people so the general populace has no need to feel anything about it. The Irish people on the other hand were the ones that had been suppressed so of course it's an issue for some of them.
When you have the suppressor telling the suppressed that they should just get over it, it's an additional slap in the face. A person would have to be quite bigotted to not see that.

Couldn't agree more with this. The exact same argument can be applied to the British attempts to destroy Highland, Gaelic culture - through manufactured famine, genocide by the British military, politics and social engineering. We're supposed to join in on the mass pretence that none of that happened.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Not quite as simple as that though...the suppression has always been there and terrible things did indeed take place. Nobody is denying that...not even gonna try and argue otherwise. The problem I have as a loyalist is that I can indeed fully respect their rights to identify as Irish...but only if they respect my rights to identify as british. Its called mutual respect and I see none of that here...all I see here is the british did this, the british did that, all their fault and they should have it rubbed in at every opportunity...thats the actions of a bigot. And bigots do indeed exist on both sides, and I know that fer a fact as I see it every single day in real life.

If they dont respect my beliefs, then to hell with theirs. Respect works both ways or not at all. Not my fault that history panned out like that...I wasnt even born so what this has to do with me, Im still trying to figure out.

Ive lost a lotta family and friends to the troubles of the last 4 decades...both catholic and protestant, and I recognize a bigot when I see one. Regardless where my roots lie, my family can be traced back to the early 17th century here when the trail runs cold on a french prisoner of war...maybe I should identify as being french. Thing is, my family has a long history of serving the british in military roles in both world wars among others...as british soldiers. My family has been british fer centuries basically and came from Leitrim until they were burned out of their own home in the 1960s.

I know...the shock of learning that happened on both sides can be hard to take in but it did. An oft ignored period where the irish were just as bad as those they hated...no those stories dont get asked for much because many would claim it never happened at all. Twas only the irish who felt the boots of oppresion on their throats wasnt it?

Thing is, Im now expected to identify as being Irish and some think I should feel ashamed of my british heritage...Im afraid its not quite that black and white however. Thats like saying americans should feel bad about where they came from when they found their lands uninhabited ^

I reference one of my earliest posts on the Brexit thread, months ago, where I condemned the IRA for the taking of innocent life especially young children as in Warrington etc. and I also stated it was inexcusable and unjustifiable, but obviously you have chosen to ignore that consistently because of the bankrupt position you hold. Also, so what if your family are here for 2 or 3 centuries, mine along with the indigenous population were here for a few thousand years at least if not twice that, so its meaningless, your just a recent arrival and now we have other Europeans here and they are welcome but they are not going to try and wipe out and supplant the native people and culture, that`s the difference and that`s why unionism in Ireland is destined to be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs.

Unionist, loyalists just like to rewrite history, I for my part like to educate them in relation to the facts and divest them of their fantasy history.

 

[Gortron]

That's the thing though isn't it. Britain was the suppressor and their actions didn't really affect the British people so the general populace has no need to feel anything about it. The Irish people on the other hand were the ones that had been suppressed so of course it's an issue for some of them.
When you have the suppressor telling the suppressed that they should just get over it, it's an additional slap in the face. A person would have to be quite bigotted to not see that.

The problem is the same person drags this up over and over again and clearly is bigoted. I don't really see what Morris dancing and accusations of talent stealing have to do anything nor why an American saying he misunderstood a geographical issue ends up with millions of Irish people being murdered by the evil British.

I was sympathetic with the guy the first time this happened, nobody including me is denying we did terrible things as a people once but I'm not going to beg for forgiveness for something I had personally absolutely nothing to do with once a month because some mentions Ireland on the forums. Especially not to someone who clearly hates us and still seems to think it's 1916.

Of course British people feel something about it. I've never said the Irish should just get over it but I'm sick of him using it as a Gateway to start throwing around anti British bigotry.