General / Off-Topic A Confession

[verminstar]

I reference one of my earliest posts on the Brexit thread, months ago, where I condemned the IRA for the taking of innocent life especially young children as in Warrington etc. and I also stated it was inexcusable and unjustifiable, but obviously you have chosen to ignore that consistently because of the bankrupt position you hold. Also, so what if your family are here for 2 or 3 centuries, mine along with the indigenous population were here for a few thousand years at least if not twice that, so its meaningless, your just a recent arrival and now we have other Europeans here and they are welcome but they are not going to try and wipe out and supplant the native people and culture, that`s the difference and that`s why unionism in Ireland is destined to be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs.

Unionist, loyalists just like to rewrite history, I for my part like to educate them in relation to the facts and divest them of their fantasy history.

There was another political belief who argued about national purity in 1920s and 30s and 40s...guess who they were ^

Anyway...yer back to yer history books again with little or no clue about the here and now. Said it before and I stand by what I said...yer more a part of the problem than ye care to admit, which is why its pointless arguing with ye. Ye want me to respect yer views, then respect mine otherwise stick yer nose back into yer parchments and stew over events that happened long before any of us were even born. Respect works both ways...a concept ye are entirely unfamiliar with ^

 

[Moonax IRL]

There was another political belief who argued about national purity in 1920s and 30s and 40s...guess who they were ^

Anyway...yer back to yer history books again with little or no clue about the here and now. Said it before and I stand by what I said...yer more a part of the problem than ye care to admit, which is why its pointless arguing with ye. Ye want me to respect yer views, then respect mine otherwise stick yer nose back into yer parchments and stew over events that happened long before any of us were even born. Respect works both ways...a concept ye are entirely unfamiliar with ^

I don`t care whether you respect my views or not, it doesn`t matter to me, I just care about the facts and I reserve the right to bring those to bear when the need arises. The fact you and others here can`t deal with them is due to insecurities and ignorance on yer part. In relation to intolerance, I have no problem with people from the EU coming here and I enjoy interacting often daily with them and am curious about there culture etc, and they are very welcome as fellow Europeans to live, stay and contribute here. You on the other hand admitted previously that you voted Brexit because of a phobia of other Europeans coming to Ireland and it frightened you. So you accusing me of intolerance is really a joke or the height of stupidity on your part.

 

[Gortron]

Ye want me to respect yer views, then respect mine otherwise stick yer nose back into yer parchments and stew over events that happened long before any of us were even born.

Thanks for that Verminstar; that line has seriously lightened my mood. "Stick yer nose back into yer parchments" lol. I'm still laughing.

Anyway on that lighter not I'm out.

 

[Arry]

Not quite as simple as that though...the suppression has always been there and terrible things did indeed take place. Nobody is denying that...not even gonna try and argue otherwise. The problem I have as a loyalist is that I can indeed fully respect their rights to identify as Irish...but only if they respect my rights to identify as british. Its called mutual respect and I see none of that here...all I see here is the british did this, the british did that, all their fault and they should have it rubbed in at every opportunity...thats the actions of a bigot. And bigots do indeed exist on both sides, and I know that fer a fact as I see it every single day in real life.

If they dont respect my beliefs, then to hell with theirs. Respect works both ways or not at all. Not my fault that history panned out like that...I wasnt even born so what this has to do with me, Im still trying to figure out.

Ive lost a lotta family and friends to the troubles of the last 4 decades...both catholic and protestant, and I recognize a bigot when I see one. Regardless where my roots lie, my family can be traced back to the early 17th century here when the trail runs cold on a french prisoner of war...maybe I should identify as being french. Thing is, my family has a long history of serving the british in military roles in both world wars among others...as british soldiers. My family has been british fer centuries basically and came from Leitrim until they were burned out of their own home in the 1960s.

I know...the shock of learning that happened on both sides can be hard to take in but it did. An oft ignored period where the irish were just as bad as those they hated...no those stories dont get asked for much because many would claim it never happened at all. Twas only the irish who felt the boots of oppresion on their throats wasnt it?

Thing is, Im now expected to identify as being Irish and some think I should feel ashamed of my british heritage...Im afraid its not quite that black and white however. Thats like saying americans should feel bad about where they came from when they found their lands uninhabited ^

You have become the end product of 'English/British' social engineering. Understand that I mean no disrespect or offence to you in any way. As you have said, you can trace your roots back 300 years, through a long line of loyal British service. However: That kin which first settled on Irish soil, were 'put there' to populate and water down the native blood lines. Your blood line now has roots, deep in the soil, the sociality and social structures. You have generations of proud British subjects educating you about, who you are and where you belong. You have no choice, when you choose your colours or where you belong.

This is the main problem, with the Irish question. Generations of good honest hard working people, living in a place that IS their home, but a place where those who claim to be the true natives, see them as the enemy.

 

[Moonax IRL]

You have become the end product of 'English/British' social engineering. Understand that I mean no disrespect or offence to you in any way. As you have said, you can trace your roots back 300 years, through a long line of loyal British service. However: That kin which first settled on Irish soil, were 'put there' to populate and water down the native blood lines. Your blood line now has roots, deep in the soil, the sociality and social structures. You have generations of proud British subjects educating you about, who you are and where you belong. You have no choice, when you choose your colours or where you belong.

This is the main problem, with the Irish question. Generations of good honest hard working people, living in a place that IS their home, but a place where those who claim to be the true natives, see them as the enemy.

To be honest I don`t see anyone as the enemy, I just see that unionism in Ireland is in its death throes. I dislike the rewriting and white washing of history so I will right the record as I see fit. If people can`t deal with the reality of such things and would rather remain in ignorance in their bubble, then they don`t have to participate.

Edit - just re you comment regarding blood lines "That kin which first settled on Irish soil, were 'put there' to populate and water down the native blood lines", its a crap and lazy analysis, no one gives a fiddlers about blood lines. It was about the theft of land and the wholesale disenfranchisement of the indigenous Irish population by a foreign occupying power in Britain, and the use of settlers to further that purpose to supplant and wipe out the Irish and their culture, its extremely simple and straightforward.

 

[Zetta]

There was another political belief who argued about national purity in 1920s and 30s and 40s...guess who they were ^

Anyway...yer back to yer history books again with little or no clue about the here and now. Said it before and I stand by what I said...yer more a part of the problem than ye care to admit, which is why its pointless arguing with ye. Ye want me to respect yer views, then respect mine otherwise stick yer nose back into yer parchments and stew over events that happened long before any of us were even born. Respect works both ways...a concept ye are entirely unfamiliar with ^

You talk about respect while being disrespectful, what outcome do perceive happening here? You say it works both ways while telling him he has to respect your views before you accord him respect, you're always going to be at loggerheads if one person has to do something before the other especially if it's the wronged that has to do it first.

The way I see it (atleast via these threads) is that, in the context of Ireland/Britain, you're as much the problem as he is. You're just as vocal about your side and dismissive of his side as he is to you.
You're proud of your heritage and you wear it like a cloak but at the same time you don't want to be judged by the bloodstains on your cloak. Like it or not you are the usurper living in a land that your ancestors have stolen, you're asking people who have had their land invaded, divided and all the rest of it to respect your views. To a lot of those people that's just inflammatory.

It's like a Confederate with the flag on his car and all the rest of it expecting respect from an African-American...

 

[verminstar]

You talk about respect while being disrespectful, what outcome do perceive happening here? You say it works both ways while telling him he has to respect your views before you accord him respect, you're always going to be at loggerheads if one person has to do something before the other especially if it's the wronged that has to do it first.

The way I see it (atleast via these threads) is that, in the context of Ireland/Britain, you're as much the problem as he is. You're just as vocal about your side and dismissive of his side as he is to you.
You're proud of your heritage and you wear it like a cloak but at the same time you don't want to be judged by the bloodstains on your cloak. Like it or not you are the usurper living in a land that your ancestors have stolen, you're asking people who have had their land invaded, divided and all the rest of it to respect your views. To a lot of those people that's just inflammatory.

It's like a Confederate with the flag on his car and all the rest of it expecting respect from an African-American...

Perhaps yer not aware of past discussions with moonax in which there are those of uswho have tried to be respectful with him, only to have it spat back in our faces time and time again. Go search through the off topic threads and then judge me.

I dont mind being judged on the bloodstains of my cloak...ye wanna talk about the sins of those I support or those Im personally responsible for? Because I have no hesitation in talking about either...Ive served my time and Ive come to terms with my past. I dont bury it in the past and try and forget it by finding someone to blame...thats called moving on. Something moonax knows absolutely nothing about and I quite openly invite ye to read through the many other treads here on off topic to see what I mean.

This is not a new phenomenon.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Perhaps yer not aware of past discussions with moonax in which there are those of uswho have tried to be respectful with him, only to have it spat back in our faces time and time again. Go search through the off topic threads and then judge me.

I dont mind being judged on the bloodstains of my cloak...ye wanna talk about the sins of those I support or those Im personally responsible for? Because I have no hesitation in talking about either...Ive served my time and Ive come to terms with my past. I dont bury it in the past and try and forget it by finding someone to blame...thats called moving on. Something moonax knows absolutely nothing about and I quite openly invite ye to read through the many other treads here on off topic to see what I mean.

This is not a new phenomenon.

People might listen to you if you learnt to back up your assertions or even accusations with facts rather than , try finding and quoting such activity by me while making such statements and reference them in the context that they were stated. Otherwise its just more made up and groundless rubbish, you really need to learn how to conduct an intelligent factual debate instead of just throwing personal slurs which you have been doing when cornered, as you are unable to factually contradict my arguments.

 

[Adept]

Ironically enough, as someone who identifies as a loyalist, I have no issues with 'the celtic isles' whatsoever.

I was thinking it would be a nice reference to the era before the Roman conquest. It's not like England is without some Celtic flavour and history either.

- - - Updated - - -

It wouldn't really, of course.

Well no, reality is always too complicated for such snappy names to be accurate.

 

[verminstar]

You have become the end product of 'English/British' social engineering. Understand that I mean no disrespect or offence to you in any way. As you have said, you can trace your roots back 300 years, through a long line of loyal British service. However: That kin which first settled on Irish soil, were 'put there' to populate and water down the native blood lines. Your blood line now has roots, deep in the soil, the sociality and social structures. You have generations of proud British subjects educating you about, who you are and where you belong. You have no choice, when you choose your colours or where you belong.

This is the main problem, with the Irish question. Generations of good honest hard working people, living in a place that IS their home, but a place where those who claim to be the true natives, see them as the enemy.

Absolutely no offence taken whatsoever m8...I actually find that to be a fairly accurate and educated summary. I would actually reinforce it by saying Im now fully aware of the state indoctrination that went on which taught me how to hate and more specifically, who to hate. Took years to get over that...my own side did that to me...the side I identify the strongest with because who else is there? The scottish are just as divided as we are, the english are embarassed by us and the welsh have sheep. Meanwhile, republicans are literally rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of a united ireland in their lifetime...they well known to want to settle scores in this community and they will find no welcome here.

Nowhere left to go and few friends outside our own borders...which incidentally are also now under threat. The choices now become more extreme because there are no alternatives...accepting defeat and letting bygones be bygones is a point we have already passed...theres too much bad blood here fer things to be that simple ^

I am what I am...why ye think I hate the establishment so much? Because they made me this way, and a great many others like me and they been doing it fer centuries ^

M8 of mine says its like being a palestinian and looking at the Israeli soldiers waiting to be unleashed on us...see how gleeful they look at the prospect of it? Thing is, we were taught not to go down without a fight...only now, thats exactly what the outside world expect us to do. We do indeed live in interesting times do we not?

 

[Moonax IRL]

Absolutely no offence taken whatsoever m8...I actually find that to be a fairly accurate and educated summary. I would actually reinforce it by saying Im now fully aware of the state indoctrination that went on which taught me how to hate and more specifically, who to hate. Took years to get over that...my own side did that to me...the side I identify the strongest with because who else is there? The scottish are just as divided as we are, the english are embarassed by us and the welsh have sheep. Meanwhile, republicans are literally rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of a united ireland in their lifetime...they well known to want to settle scores in this community and they will find no welcome here.

Nowhere left to go and few friends outside our own borders...which incidentally are also now under threat. The choices now become more extreme because there are no alternatives...accepting defeat and letting bygones be bygones is a point we have already passed...theres too much bad blood here fer things to be that simple ^

I am what I am...why ye think I hate the establishment so much? Because they made me this way, and a great many others like me and they been doing it fer centuries ^

M8 of mine says its like being a palestinian and looking at the Israeli soldiers waiting to be unleashed on us...see how gleeful they look at the prospect of it? Thing is, we were taught not to go down without a fight...only now, thats exactly what the outside world expect us to do. We do indeed live in interesting times do we not?

You do know the utter hypocrisy of that statement, the Palestinian flag has being flown all over nationalist area`s in the North of Ireland for decades as the IRA and PLO have being fellow travellers for decades because of the perceived similarities of the situation of Palestine to Ireland. Due to this the unionist/loyalist areas have been festooned with Israeli flags, simply because if the the Irish are for the Palestinians then the loyalists have to take the opposite view and support the Israeli`s. Its as pathetic as that, there is even some Na///zi & confederate flags now appearing in loyalists areas.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-2715839/PM-REFUSES-TO-CALL-ATTACKS-CRIMINAL.html

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...us-alongside-paramilitary-flags-31360497.html

Ireland has supported the Palestinian cause without fail for decades and and fought apartheid in South Africa while the British government and the loyalists were in bed with them. IRA volunteers even carried out recon, planning and intelligence operations in South Africa for attacks on key South African state targets/installations at the request of the ANC which led to successful operations by the ANC on said installations. The IRA also provided training in Ireland to ANC members who returned to Africa and passed on such knowledge.They also did likewise for the PLO.

https://ansionnachfionn.com/2011/08/29/black-provos-the-anc-and-the-ira/


The Irish government have been one of the strongest & most vocal supporters of the Palestinian cause, a fact much appreciated by the Palestinian people. If there is one thing Irish people hate with a furious intensity, it is the strong bullying the weak, this has been born out of our own colonial exploitation/experience and we will not suffer the same treatment being meted out on anyone, persons, community or country if we are in any position to assist.

So your highlighted comment really shows how muddled and mixed up unionists/loyalist really are, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Edit - Irish Republican Leader Gerry Adams, one of those guys you hate so much was actually invited to stand in the honour guard at the coffin of Nelson Mandela during his funeral by the Mandela family and the ANC. How many world leaders were given the same opportunity.

 

[verminstar]

Im well aware those flags have started going up...hell we even got C18 stuff doing the rounds too, and those guys were near extinct fer years. Thats an internal affair...it will be dealt with internally.

It is ironic isnt it? The whole palestinian comparison from my m8...clearly enough to get a rise outta you anyway...silver linings.

Where did I ever say I hated Gerry Adams? I actually said I had a profound level of respect for his sidekick Martin who is held in high regard by many more of us than you credit. Senior unionist politicians paid very deep respects to his decisions to resign...this being from a different thread. I dont agree with his beliefs or his politics, but at no point have I ever said I hated them.

My issues lie with others...fer them I reserve hate...fer others, its grudging respect, and fer you its a bit like indifference. Gerry actually achieved something great...wasnt great fer us, but it was great nonetheless. I dont like them...but I dont hate them either...hate brings a man down...makes one prone to carelessness.

Anyway...this has been fun...but yer too predictable and Im tired ^

 

[Moonax IRL]

Im well aware those flags have started going up...hell we even got C18 stuff doing the rounds too, and those guys were near extinct fer years. Thats an internal affair...it will be dealt with internally.

It is ironic isnt it? The whole palestinian comparison from my m8...clearly enough to get a rise outta you anyway...silver linings.

Where did I ever say I hated Gerry Adams? I actually said I had a profound level of respect for his sidekick Martin who is held in high regard by many more of us than you credit. Senior unionist politicians paid very deep respects to his decisions to resign...this being from a different thread. I dont agree with his beliefs or his politics, but at no point have I ever said I hated them.

My issues lie with others...fer them I reserve hate...fer others, its grudging respect, and fer you its a bit like indifference. Gerry actually achieved something great...wasnt great fer us, but it was great nonetheless. I dont like them...but I dont hate them either...hate brings a man down...makes one prone to carelessness.

Anyway...this has been fun...but yer too predictable and Im tired ^

It's all acedimic me and just an interesting and sad insight into the complete shambles that is unionist/loyalists psychology, I just find it really pityful and pointless that ye have boxed yourselves into a corner because ye were told that ye were better than the natives when ye weren't, and now find it impossible to reconcile the fact that the best opportunities for ye are not with the English, who would send ye on a slow boat to China if they could.
You're only real option long term is to join the rest of us on this Island and build a better Republic with equal opportunities for all. Something that is going to happen whether ye like it or not in time, its now unionism should get in on the ground floor and shape that new Republic instead of letting the clock tick down to zero and waking up one day to suddenly finding yourselves in it.

Of course such thinking would require some self examination and maturity on unionists part and the getting rid of the superiority complex and bigotry. Looking at the DUP et al. I think it's too firmly part of the mentality and ye will just drift into a United Ireland while Mother England turns her backside to ye and gives a sigh of relief.

 

[Ca$hback]

Far as I'm concerned, the celts chased out the little people and the giants. All land was stolen from those who wandered there first at one point and weren't equipped to defend it. It sounds really patronizing but people hang on to "identity". We say, "I'm this". "I identify as this", "I identify with this" but they never really shave off all that useless garbage that they really aren't. You're meat and bones with a brain, positive racism is still racism and land doesn't belong to anybody. People have their squabbles and their pride. They have their hurt feelings they can't let go of because they feel it would be disrespectful. We think we're so much more than we are. We flatter ourselves. But like someone else once said, "you can't have coke and pepsi in the same restaurant and you want world peace?"
How offended we get when we get hit in a weak spot.

 

[Lianachan]

Far as I'm concerned, the celts chased out the little people and the giants.

[weird]

So much wrongness in so few words!

 

[Moonax IRL]

Far as I'm concerned, the celts chased out the little people and the giants. All land was stolen from those who wandered there first at one point and weren't equipped to defend it. It sounds really patronizing but people hang on to "identity". We say, "I'm this". "I identify as this", "I identify with this" but they never really shave off all that useless garbage that they really aren't. You're meat and bones with a brain, positive racism is still racism and land doesn't belong to anybody. People have their squabbles and their pride. They have their hurt feelings they can't let go of because they feel it would be disrespectful. We think we're so much more than we are. We flatter ourselves. But like someone else once said, "you can't have coke and pepsi in the same restaurant and you want world peace?"
How offended we get when we get hit in a weak spot.

I think you should lay of the fortune cookies, you're not meant to take them as a serious source of wisdom.

 

[Ca$hback]

[weird]

So much wrongness in so few words!

Fair enough

 

[FuzzySpider]

Nationalism is an archaic, backward, and foolish ideology fit only for the slow-witted. It influences you to hate people you have never met and know very little about and encourages you to take credit for things you've never done.

People are people. Not flags. Seeing other human beings and judging them based on the geographical location of their mother when they emerged into the world is the reason behind why 2016 was such a complete mess of a year. Let's stop it.

 

[Lianachan]

Nationalism is an archaic, backward, and foolish ideology fit only for the slow-witted. It influences you to hate people you have never met and know very little about and encourages you to take credit for things you've never done.

People are people. Not flags. Seeing other human beings and judging them based on the geographical location of their mother when they emerged into the world is the reason behind why 2016 was such a complete mess of a year. Let's stop it.

Not all forms of nationalism do the things I've bolded, there. Yes, your far right BNP kinds of nationalism does that, certainly, but there are more civilised flavours available.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Not all forms of nationalism do the things I've bolded, there. Yes, your far right BNP kinds of nationalism does that, certainly, but there are more civilised flavours available.

Wait what! there is such a thing as British Nationalism, I thought the only nasty ones were Irish and Scottish nationalism and probably the Welsh variety, well at least that`s what the Brit Nats say anyway.