General / Off-Topic A Confession

[verminstar]

It's all acedimic me and just an interesting and sad insight into the complete shambles that is unionist/loyalists psychology, I just find it really pityful and pointless that ye have boxed yourselves into a corner because ye were told that ye were better than the natives when ye weren't, and now find it impossible to reconcile the fact that the best opportunities for ye are not with the English, who would send ye on a slow boat to China if they could.
You're only real option long term is to join the rest of us on this Island and build a better Republic with equal opportunities for all. Something that is going to happen whether ye like it or not in time, its now unionism should get in on the ground floor and shape that new Republic instead of letting the clock tick down to zero and waking up one day to suddenly finding yourselves in it.

Of course such thinking would require some self examination and maturity on unionists part and the getting rid of the superiority complex and bigotry. Looking at the DUP et al. I think it's too firmly part of the mentality and ye will just drift into a United Ireland while Mother England turns her backside to ye and gives a sigh of relief.

I have no doubt there are those who wish this very thing to happen...but ye gotta ask...is that what the IRA did? Lay down arms and forgive and forget while yer people are ruled by a foreign country? We have many flaws, but giving up without a fight is not one of them. On the positive, there are some of your lot who are protected by the state because they were informers and touts back in the 80s and 90s...a united ireland would mean those guys would need to start watching their backs as the brits wont be around to protect them, and the south dont want them either.

Some sins will never be forgiven or forgotten...we learned from the best after all when it comes to holding grudges. If its democratically done, Ill accept it and quietly vanish...I have no doubt in my mind that yer lot would be looking to settle old scores...they sorta famous fer it regardless what outsiders think. If its not democratic, then history will be our judge as to what happens next.

Anyway, ye put a lotta faith in the DUP...a party who even we consider a joke in recent times. Rumour has it they could get murdered in the upcoming election because most of us see them as religious fanatics with microphone in one hand and a bible in the other. A party fer the older generation and the coffin dodgers, it was always gonna be risky voting them into power and now we paying the price, but time will tell and theirs is running out. They have brought this country to its knees and I lay the blame entirely at their feet fer this present fiasco.

So yeah...once again religion and the fanatics who preach that special brand of poison will drag us back into the past. They have done more damage in 3 years than republicans did in 3 decades so ye...Ill give ye that one. Our predicament at present is indeed self inflicted...this is our reward fer supporting politics with peace...if this is what peace does fer us, then why not go back to war? What exactly do we stand to lose if we lose everything in peace anyway? We never surrendered 18 years ago...we simply stopped fighting...there is a difference and loyalists have a well known motto...no surrender. And one way or another, this fight isnt over yet ^

 

[verminstar]

Nationalism is an archaic, backward, and foolish ideology fit only for the slow-witted. It influences you to hate people you have never met and know very little about and encourages you to take credit for things you've never done.

People are people. Not flags. Seeing other human beings and judging them based on the geographical location of their mother when they emerged into the world is the reason behind why 2016 was such a complete mess of a year. Let's stop it.

Forgive and forget? You ask fer more than ye know...ye cant know because ye never had to live through it and deal with loss after loss only to be stabbed in the back by those ye supported through it all.

We tried it your way and we tried to forgive and forget...hasnt exactly worked out very well fer us though has it? It corrupted the entire political system by making them greedy, made terrorists into politicians...name me one other country in the free world where that happens on the scale it happened here and then preach to me about the benefits of peace. How is it a benefit when we lose our country? Thats an endgame...that cancels out any and all benefits and gives us no reason to stay reasonable. Its taking away the very thing we have spent our entire lives preserving, and ye want us to just roll over and give in?

Like I said, ye ask fer more than ye know ^

 

[Moonax IRL]

I have no doubt there are those who wish this very thing to happen...but ye gotta ask...is that what the IRA did? Lay down arms and forgive and forget while yer people are ruled by a foreign country? We have many flaws, but giving up without a fight is not one of them. On the positive, there are some of your lot who are protected by the state because they were informers and touts back in the 80s and 90s...a united ireland would mean those guys would need to start watching their backs as the brits wont be around to protect them, and the south dont want them either.

Some sins will never be forgiven or forgotten...we learned from the best after all when it comes to holding grudges. If its democratically done, Ill accept it and quietly vanish...I have no doubt in my mind that yer lot would be looking to settle old scores...they sorta famous fer it regardless what outsiders think. If its not democratic, then history will be our judge as to what happens next.

Anyway, ye put a lotta faith in the DUP...a party who even we consider a joke in recent times. Rumour has it they could get murdered in the upcoming election because most of us see them as religious fanatics with microphone in one hand and a bible in the other. A party fer the older generation and the coffin dodgers, it was always gonna be risky voting them into power and now we paying the price, but time will tell and theirs is running out. They have brought this country to its knees and I lay the blame entirely at their feet fer this present fiasco.

So yeah...once again religion and the fanatics who preach that special brand of poison will drag us back into the past. They have done more damage in 3 years than republicans did in 3 decades so ye...Ill give ye that one. Our predicament at present is indeed self inflicted...this is our reward fer supporting politics with peace...if this is what peace does fer us, then why not go back to war? What exactly do we stand to lose if we lose everything in peace anyway? We never surrendered 18 years ago...we simply stopped fighting...there is a difference and loyalists have a well known motto...no surrender. And one way or another, this fight isnt over yet ^

Point 1- I have no fear of loyalist getting uppity if ye don`t get yer way, ye will abide by the democratic process like everyone else or else ye will be knocked into line, ye are not a special case.

Point 2 - This old pay back crap you keep harping on about is just that , after Irish state became independent there was no pogroms in the south against Protestants, its and if you have evidence post your facts to prove same. There was in fact pogroms in the North against Catholics and that is well documented. As I said our first President Douglas Hyde was of the Protestant faith, no one gave a fiddlers. Thousand of Anglo Irish families continued to live in the republic w/o any issue and thrived.

Point 3 - Return to war, more rubbish, ye couldn`t blow ye nose w/o the Brits holding the hanky for ye, the Irish have generations of resistance programmed into their DNA over nearly a millennia, loyalism does not have the tradition, backbone or capability organise anything that would last any longer than a fart in the wind. Ye are hoping for a crisis to justify your grievance and put off the democratically inevitable but its coming and when it does you can get with the program or we will buy you a ticket to blighty, but your days of holding the democratic will of the Irish people to ransom are coming to and end so get used to that fact.

 

[verminstar]

Wanna remind me again who it was who begged the brits to protect them from the evil loyalists? Ah ye thats right...twas nationalists who begged them fer help in the beginning...then turned on them once they saw the advantage. Ye seriously underestimate yer enemy because ye had the brits to watch over ye and build walls around ye to keep ye safe at night...but when those walls come down? Time will tell the tale and lets face it...we got nothing left to lose now and we will protect our communities with any and all means at our disposal, and the outside world can go jump fer all I care.

Ye may well get yer united ireland, but our little communities will remain and ye will find no welcome there. The brits cant police us...they tried and failed so what makes ye think the Irish can achieve what britain could not?

As fer the democratic aspect...it was the democratic majority who wanted to remain a part of the UK that prompted the IRA to go on a three decade campaign of bombing, shooting and killing rampage. The only reason they stopped was because the people in this country got sick of them and ordered them to stop...after 3 decades of it, they finally realized they couldnt win and then went down the democratic route.

With that little detail in mind, yer in no position to lecture anyone on their democratic rights. We learned the hard way how republicans view democracy...its their second choice after violence failed. Or are you claiming they were representative of a silent irish majority who just never voted hmm? No...the majority voted to stay in the UK and the provos went nuts and ignored the majority wishes and bombed their way to the negotiating table with brute force. You really are in no position to lecture anyone on democracy when ye take that little fact into consideration.

Ah but Im sure those little details arent repeated by the fund raisers in the US...Im sure theres a lotta little details they arent aware of. Certainly in the stories Ive heard when I was there a few years back...seems they were spun a complete fairy tale about what actually happened. Tells me all I need to know about how yer lot value the truth ^

One such was the landmine that killed 6 men in a bus travelling home from work just outside Ballygawley...the yanks were told the bus was carrying off duty UDR soldiers which meant a justified target in their eyes...thats what the yanks were told when the story came up once. What actually happened...they were not soldiers and 5 of the 6 men were catholics themselves...working men who were just trying to put food on the table. Their only crime...taking on work contracts to work on St Lucia barracks in Omagh. They killed their own fer daring to try and better themselves with a hard days wage...a warning to others not to work fer the brits. Thats republican justice...wanna take the guess how I know that? Good friend of mine at the time was part of their protection detail...protection from their own people.

Republicans...strangers to the truth, always were always will be ^

 

[dayrth]

Bit of an odd one Ireland, as there are 2 bits. One of which (the little one at the top), is part of the UK. The other bit isn't though and the inhabitants could get quite stroppy (understandably so), if you suggest otherwise.

 

[verminstar]

Theres a very good website which I cant link from here which has been written specifically for outsiders who dont really understand the situation. I cant link stuff from here, but search out 'Belfast child'...the title page has the words 'Remembering the victims'

It tells the story from both sides...written by an outsider who has lived here fer some time. Its one the best and most informative sites I know off that outsiders will understand. It tells the truth so some will not find it comfortable reading, and there are many links to other sources to be found. All sources and stories are backed up if anyone wishes to check...in fact I welcome others to educate themselves as there are a great many non truths in circulation which causes more confusion.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Like I said, ye ask fer more than ye know ^

I am asking for you, and anyone else, to acknowledge that someones worth as a human being is not tied to an accident of geography.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Wanna remind me again who it was who begged the brits to protect them from the evil loyalists? Ah ye thats right...twas nationalists who begged them fer help in the beginning...then turned on them once they saw the advantage. Ye seriously underestimate yer enemy because ye had the brits to watch over ye and build walls around ye to keep ye safe at night...but when those walls come down? Time will tell the tale and lets face it...we got nothing left to lose now and we will protect our communities with any and all means at our disposal, and the outside world can go jump fer all I care.

Ye may well get yer united ireland, but our little communities will remain and ye will find no welcome there. The brits cant police us...they tried and failed so what makes ye think the Irish can achieve what britain could not?

As fer the democratic aspect...it was the democratic majority who wanted to remain a part of the UK that prompted the IRA to go on a three decade campaign of bombing, shooting and killing rampage. The only reason they stopped was because the people in this country got sick of them and ordered them to stop...after 3 decades of it, they finally realized they couldnt win and then went down the democratic route.

With that little detail in mind, yer in no position to lecture anyone on their democratic rights. We learned the hard way how republicans view democracy...its their second choice after violence failed. Or are you claiming they were representative of a silent irish majority who just never voted hmm? No...the majority voted to stay in the UK and the provos went nuts and ignored the majority wishes and bombed their way to the negotiating table with brute force. You really are in no position to lecture anyone on democracy when ye take that little fact into consideration.

Ah but Im sure those little details arent repeated by the fund raisers in the US...Im sure theres a lotta little details they arent aware of. Certainly in the stories Ive heard when I was there a few years back...seems they were spun a complete fairy tale about what actually happened. Tells me all I need to know about how yer lot value the truth ^

One such was the landmine that killed 6 men in a bus travelling home from work just outside Ballygawley...the yanks were told the bus was carrying off duty UDR soldiers which meant a justified target in their eyes...thats what the yanks were told when the story came up once. What actually happened...they were not soldiers and 5 of the 6 men were catholics themselves...working men who were just trying to put food on the table. Their only crime...taking on work contracts to work on St Lucia barracks in Omagh. They killed their own fer daring to try and better themselves with a hard days wage...a warning to others not to work fer the brits. Thats republican justice...wanna take the guess how I know that? Good friend of mine at the time was part of their protection detail...protection from their own people.

Republicans...strangers to the truth, always were always will be ^

B specials, brave boys against unarmed women & children who got their backside handed to them on the Bogside, as I said clueless & hapless. I quoted enough facts previously of the ineptitude of the loyalists, dads army stuff.

Re democracy, the partition of Ireland was undemocratic, unionism and the North is the essence of a undemocratic decision forced on the majority.

 

[verminstar]

I am asking for you, and anyone else, to acknowledge that someones worth as a human being is not tied to an accident of geography.

Im not judging anyone on where they from...Im easy with live and let live, republicans are not. They want me to change my nationality and the nationality of my country...they do not support live and let live. So they the ones with a problem, not me...Im merely saying no to them because I dont trust them. They acknowledge us and we acknowledge them...they spite us and ridicule us and they can expect it to be returned in kind. I will not back down because that would be akin to surrender, and that is simply not an option. It was once, but things have changed now. You see what they think of us through moons rantings...does that look like hes respecting our beliefs to you?

Respect works both ways or not at all...really doesnt get any more complicated than that fer me. Im not a god fearing man and I will not simply turn the other cheek because its supposedly the right thing to do...that doesnt work fer me Im afraid ^

 

[verminstar]

B specials, brave boys against unarmed women & children who got their backside handed to them on the Bogside, as I said clueless & hapless. I quoted enough facts previously of the ineptitude of the loyalists, dads army stuff.

Re democracy, the partition of Ireland was undemocratic, unionism and the North is the essence of a undemocratic decision forced on the majority.

Sent in heavy after the IRA planted a bomb in a civilian market...internment was not merely done on a whim and they provoked us by bombing civilians fer no reason other than spite. What did ye expect the reaction to be? Flowers and quality street?

What happened was going too far however...I will admit the b specials were a fairly nasty bunch...Im certainly not proudof that part of my heritage, but the reasons and motivations are not black and white. The Ira provoked a reaction and got the b specials...ye have yer own trigger happy thugs to blame fer that one.

The partition of ireland happened a long time ago...are we to be held accountable fer all the sins of the past? If so, then there are quite a few republicans who must also answer to their crimes...there will be no peace until both sides face upto that, and republicans are severely lacking in that respect. We have bent over backwards with trying to make ammends and we get nothing back but more demands and more accusations of events that happened before any of us were even born.

Enough is enough...its not loyalists going round shooting people on the street like the other night here in belfast. Its not loyalists shooting 16 yr old kids in both legs leaving them to bleed to death in an alleyway...thats republicans doing that while we keep the peace that your lot dont support. Details like that make yer words hollow and empty because yer a hypocrite ^

 

[Garbarrage]

 

[Moonax IRL]

Sent in heavy after the IRA planted a bomb in a civilian market...internment was not merely done on a whim and they provoked us by bombing civilians fer no reason other than spite. What did ye expect the reaction to be? Flowers and quality street?

What happened was going too far however...I will admit the b specials were a fairly nasty bunch...Im certainly not proudof that part of my heritage, but the reasons and motivations are not black and white. The Ira provoked a reaction and got the b specials...ye have yer own trigger happy thugs to blame fer that one.

The partition of ireland happened a long time ago...are we to be held accountable fer all the sins of the past? If so, then there are quite a few republicans who must also answer to their crimes...there will be no peace until both sides face upto that, and republicans are severely lacking in that respect. We have bent over backwards with trying to make ammends and we get nothing back but more demands and more accusations of events that happened before any of us were even born.

Enough is enough...its not loyalists going round shooting people on the street like the other night here in belfast. Its not loyalists shooting 16 yr old kids in both legs leaving them to bleed to death in an alleyway...thats republicans doing that while we keep the peace that your lot dont support. Details like that make yer words hollow and empty because yer a hypocrite ^

Just keep exercising your franchise, when the it hits 51% you can join the club with the same rights and responsibilities as the rest of us or take the boat. It's completely up to yourself.

 

[verminstar]

Well there are other choices which I won't write and leave to yer imagination. Like I said, if it's the democratic will of the majority then I will respect that...if done any other way, then all bets are off far as I'm concerned...there will be no more compromises now, no more turning a blind eye to republican provocation in the interest of peace. A peace that yer lot clearly couldn't care less about judging by their most recent actions ^

 

[Moonax IRL]

Well there are other choices which I won't write and leave to yer imagination. Like I said, if it's the democratic will of the majority then I will respect that...if done any other way, then all bets are off far as I'm concerned...there will be no more compromises now, no more turning a blind eye to republican provocation in the interest of peace. A peace that yer lot clearly couldn't care less about judging by their most recent actions ^

Yer like an old woman with vieled threats and then saying if it's democratic then maybe.....blah,blah, blah, more crap. As I said I don't give a fiddlers, stay or go but you will not stand in the way of the democratic process again. You'll accept it or not but it will be seen thru one way or another.

 

[verminstar]

Veiled threats? I only threaten people to their face and this is the Internet...and that wasn't a threat, veiled or otherwise. Simply pointing out that certain actions will have consequences...that's not a threat, that's a warning because of recent republican provocation...it won't be ignored forever.

But threaten you directly? Oh no my dear moonax...that's really not my style even in real life. I don't need to issue threats...I'm an observer only unless ye can prove otherwise...good luck with that ^

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I think they should start handing out world atlases to kids in US schools, it is always nice to actually know the actual location of the country that you are invading.

Wow, that was a pretty unnecessary comment.

Like I said earlier in the thread - fully aware of where Ireland is and its general history over the last 2000 years. I just never stopped to recognize that the Republic of Ireland had become an independent sovereign state in the early 20th century. Why? I dunno. I thought Irish iconography was more of just a cultural pride thing, I guess. Kind of like how Texans are so proud of Texas.

 

[Red Anders]

Wow, that was a pretty unnecessary comment.

It was actually an American (Ambrose Bierce) who's best know for expressing basically that sentiment in his comment that 'warfare is God's way of teaching Americans geography.'

 

[Garbarrage]

What I think is going to happen is that the UK will use Ireland as a weapon in their Brexit strategy. If the EU go too hard on the Brits, it will put us in a difficult position when dealing with our closest cultural and most important economic neighbour. A position which could force us out of the Euro, thereby weakening the currency and undermining international confidence in it.

Ironically, I could see it feasibly playing out (however unlikely) that the North rejoins the Republic just in time for the Republic to rejoin the Commonwealth. Lol.

Stick that in your collective pipes and smoke it. =)

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yea.... we have no bananas....

...straight ones anyway.

 

[Adept]

What I think is going to happen is that the UK will use Ireland as a weapon in their Brexit strategy. If the EU go too hard on the Brits, it will put us in a difficult position when dealing with our closest cultural and most important economic neighbour. A position which could force us out of the Euro, thereby weakening the currency and undermining international confidence in it.

Ironically, I could see it feasibly playing out (however unlikely) that the North rejoins the Republic just in time for the Republic to rejoin the Commonwealth. Lol.

Stick that in your collective pipes and smoke it. =)

The UK is pretty unarmed in this "fight". What will happen is a leaky border between RoI and NI, a lot of smuggling and tax evasion.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Veiled threats? I only threaten people to their face and this is the Internet...and that wasn't a threat, veiled or otherwise. Simply pointing out that certain actions will have consequences...that's not a threat, that's a warning because of recent republican provocation...it won't be ignored forever.

But threaten you directly? Oh no my dear moonax...that's really not my style even in real life. I don't need to issue threats...I'm an observer only unless ye can prove otherwise...good luck with that ^

You're having a laugh, Jesus ease up Rambo, you're losing the plot a small bit. I was talking plainly in relation to you're vieled threats to the Irish state if the vote is for a UI. You don't know what you want.
With all your military experience and expertise why don't you buy a few action men put on your union jack boxers and game out your fantasy last man standing scenario against the evil Micks.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, that was a pretty unnecessary comment.

Like I said earlier in the thread - fully aware of where Ireland is and its general history over the last 2000 years. I just never stopped to recognize that the Republic of Ireland had become an independent sovereign state in the early 20th century. Why? I dunno. I thought Irish iconography was more of just a cultural pride thing, I guess. Kind of like how Texans are so proud of Texas.

Hence my suggestion, which would improve your educational system.