General / Off-Topic Are you safe on the Internet?

[Blackbeard]

I've seen quite a few people recently splashing out money on VPN software and other premium computer security things. People seemed to be worried quite a lot about their online safety (rightly so), asking things like "Is my computer, my phone, are my Emails safe?" etc etc.

Those are all relative questions. Well what are the right questions? The right question to ask yourself is "Who am I safe or not safe from?".

I'm sure many of you consider your home safe, from burglars or otherwise (at least I would hope so). But that's all relative. Would the Secret Service consider it safe for the President? No, almost certainly not. Because the president of the United States is prone to both terrorist and military attacks, and you (at least I assume) are not.

Just because security professionals like the Secret Service consider your home un-safe, does that mean you should spend millions upgrading your house to have state of the art alarm systems, surveillance, look outs, body guards, a safe room and bullet proofing? No, it doesn't.

The same goes for your smartphone and home computer. Sure, it is highly advisable that you have a standard, up to date, virus protection software package. But do you really need VPN software, proxies, secure networks, and any other expensive security measures? Not unless you have something seriously important worth protecting.

So, then, if you're really considering purchasing some kind of computer security product for your home computer, other than anti-virus software - I would think twice, do you really need it?

That is for the average Joe, of course.

 

[Arry]

This I can agree with 100%.

1st: Nothing can stop the determined thief.

2nd: Using things like 'open wifi', 'the cloud' and other; for your convenience systems, can put your data at risk.

At the same time; it is not what you have, but others becoming aware, that you have something they want.

 

[Minonian]

Not until there is true net police, and net specific world laws.

At the same time; it is not what you have, but others becoming aware, that you have something they want.

Agreed.

 

[Don Alvarez]

2nd: Using things like 'open wifi', 'the cloud' and other; for your convenience systems, can put your data at risk.

I read a satire bit once, but it rings true, for those who don't understand what "The Cloud" is, to put it in the proper perspective just substitute the words "Someone Else's Computer". As in:

I just backed up my tax return documents onto Someone Else's Computer.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The Cloud is like ED ... Dangerous

 

[Aereon Theed]

No. We are not safe on the internet.

I remember a time too, when people thought they could say what they wanted on these things and it would never come back to bite them. The internet for example, wasn't reality to these people. Times have changed.

As for cellular devices, or smart phones, you are walking around with a low-jack connection to you at all times that anybody can tap into. Especially those government agencies you mentioned.

 

[xondk]

Depends on what you mean by safe, but by the purest definition, you are never 'safe' anywhere.

And when it comes to online a LOT of it depends on how you treat your data, and who you trust of services and such, course people that aren't well known in computers, often don't question things, and just takes the word of someone telling them "There is a virus on your computer" or somesuch, "We are the safest place" e.t.c. at face value....I don't blame them, but you can't really do that.

There are two very simple rules I try to teach people when they ask my advise.

Look at the internet as walking down the street.
Look at a web page as a news paper.

If you were walking down the street and someone told you they had x and were the best? would you believe them?
would you believe a news paper stating something similar?

Generally no to both, but many people simply lack a way to reference the net. Because honestly, the shady tactics themselves haven't really changed, just the medium which they are provided.

 

[Gortron]

I've seen quite a few people recently splashing out money on VPN software and other premium computer security things. People seemed to be worried quite a lot about their online safety (rightly so), asking things like "Is my computer, my phone, are my Emails safe?" etc etc.

Those are all relative questions. Well what are the right questions? The right question to ask yourself is "Who am I safe or not safe from?".

I'm sure many of you consider your home safe, from burglars or otherwise (at least I would hope so). But that's all relative. Would the Secret Service consider it safe for the President? No, almost certainly not. Because the president of the United States is prone to both terrorist and military attacks, and you (at least I assume) are not.

Just because security professionals like the Secret Service consider your home un-safe, does that mean you should spend millions upgrading your house to have state of the art alarm systems, surveillance, look outs, body guards, a safe room and bullet proofing? No, it doesn't.

The same goes for your smartphone and home computer. Sure, it is highly advisable that you have a standard, up to date, virus protection software package. But do you really need VPN software, proxies, secure networks, and any other expensive security measures? Not unless you have something seriously important worth protecting.

So, then, if you're really considering purchasing some kind of computer security product for your home computer, other than anti-virus software - I would think twice, do you really need it?

That is for the average Joe, of course.

The security professionals like the secret service and in the UK GCHQ consider your home is unsafe because it is. They know because they can get past pretty much every obstacle you put in the way. Using an anti-virus and firewall application is required absolutely but the use of VPN and proxies depends on what you are doing and whom you want to hide it from. If you are using public WiFi then you are on the same network as any other computer connected to the same Wifi and are at enormous risk unless you use a VPN.

I thought risks on the internet were overblown... then I listened to this https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18465875-countdown-to-zero-day wow!

 

[Minonian]

Hm... Let's just say like this, Cloud is not for sensitive data, and neither those services whom for example promise you to keep your data, and passworlds safe. You never know, and there are no devices what cannot be hacked. no 100% safe locks after all...

The best thing you can do to keep separated from the internet, and your computer, like keep your personal informations in a thumbdrive, or portable hard Drive, and remove them when you don't need it. This also not gurantee anything but adds one more level of hardness, another problem what an intruder must bypass. And if the hardness is greater than the reward? Overpasses their will, and power? They won't brother.

 

[Gortron]

Hm... Let's just say like this, Cloud is not for sensitive data, and neither those services whom for example promise you to keep your data, and passworlds safe. You never know, and there are no devices what cannot be hacked. no 100% safe locks after all...

The best thing you can do to keep separated from the internet, and your computer, like keep your personal informations in a thumbdrive, or portable hard Drive, and remove them when you don't need it. This also not gurantee anything but adds one more level of hardness, another problem what an intruder must bypass. And if the hardness is greater than the reward? Overpasses their will, and power? They won't brother.

The worlds first cyber weapon was propagated by USB.... it used a Zero day exploit in the auto-run feature on thumb drives.

It tried to work out where it was and if Siemens 'Step 7' was installed.

 

[Minonian]

The worlds first cyber weapon was propagated by USB.... it used a Zero day exploit in the auto-run feature on thumb drives.

It tried to work out where it was and if Siemens 'Step 7' was installed.

Yes, Iran nuclear program. I remember. Just as i said there is no 100% percent safety, but there are levels of safety, with a minimum requirements and compared to this, how much you can afford? Talking about what i said earlier to an average human have a normally configured router, and good security software, normally configured and managed refreshed op system is enough most of the time. But still to repeat myself? No 100% safety.

 

[bitstorm]

Well the UK Investigatory Powers Bill comes into force in 2017.

It gives the Police access to your full web history, who you've emailed, it will all be stored in nice easy access databases. And that data can be accessed by the Police as they want, without any warrant required and without any judicial oversight. If the Police want access they just access it.

And if the Police do access your data it's a criminal offense for the data holder to tell anyone. Meaning if the IPB is abused it's a crime to reveal that, no whistleblowing.

Do you trust the Police? My experience is that yes there are decent Police officers, but some are thugs. The unfortunate reality is the role attracts the sort of person who likes to be in a position of authority.

I understand folk moving to VPNs, people have a right to privacy.

 

[Minonian]

Well the UK Investigatory Powers Bill comes into force in 2017.

It gives the Police access to your full web history, who you've emailed, it will all be stored in nice easy access databases. And that data can be accessed by the Police as they want, without any warrant required and without any judicial oversight. If the Police want access they just access it.

And if the Police do access your data it's a criminal offense for the data holder to tell anyone. Meaning if the IPB is abused it's a crime to reveal that, no whistleblowing.

Do you trust the Police? My experience is that yes there are decent Police officers, but some are thugs. The unfortunate reality is the role attracts the sort of person who likes to be in a position of authority.

I understand folk moving to VPNs, people have a right to privacy.

Mhhhmmm... We shall see how far this can go, if it can pass? For my part let's say i don't think to give this much control without insurances and restrictions, supervision wise. But sometimes it can be necessary. Do i really need to tell? terrorism hi profile cyber criminals, ects...

And to reveal a crime is a crime? What the???

 

[Arry]

Well the UK Investigatory Powers Bill comes into force in 2017.

It gives the Police access to your full web history, who you've emailed, it will all be stored in nice easy access databases. And that data can be accessed by the Police as they want, without any warrant required and without any judicial oversight. If the Police want access they just access it.

And if the Police do access your data it's a criminal offense for the data holder to tell anyone. Meaning if the IPB is abused it's a crime to reveal that, no whistleblowing.

Do you trust the Police? My experience is that yes there are decent Police officers, but some are thugs. The unfortunate reality is the role attracts the sort of person who likes to be in a position of authority.

I understand folk moving to VPNs, people have a right to privacy.

Just the police?

My issue with this, is what becomes illegal in the future. Example: In the UK fracking is now a part of government policy and backed by the power of the state. So does that mean that any one involved in anti-fracking, in any way, becomes a legitimate target?

 

[Gortron]

Well the UK Investigatory Powers Bill comes into force in 2017.

It gives the Police access to your full web history, who you've emailed, it will all be stored in nice easy access databases. And that data can be accessed by the Police as they want, without any warrant required and without any judicial oversight. If the Police want access they just access it.

And if the Police do access your data it's a criminal offense for the data holder to tell anyone. Meaning if the IPB is abused it's a crime to reveal that, no whistleblowing.

Do you trust the Police? My experience is that yes there are decent Police officers, but some are thugs. The unfortunate reality is the role attracts the sort of person who likes to be in a position of authority.

I understand folk moving to VPNs, people have a right to privacy.

I thought it got blown out of the water by the EU? I'm being serious btw.... it was overruled. As much as I don't like that stupid idea I hate the idea that we can't vote in stupid laws.

 

[Minonian]

Ok... Allow me to clarify my previous statement.

It is definitely unwise, and cannot be allowed to happen. better late than never? Even better to stop it before it happen while you can, not to mention a bailiff, (meaning all the law servants) himself is obliged to uphold both the law words and spirit, he must be the very standard! You cannot break the law even at your home. And to do something like this? Is definitely against a lot of the words and spirit.

 

[bitstorm]

I thought it got blown out of the water by the EU? I'm being serious btw.... it was overruled. As much as I don't like that stupid idea I hate the idea that we can't vote in stupid laws.

You may be right, I think it was from back in November.

Been digging for links :

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...r-spying-law-powers-theresa-may-a7503616.html

https://www.deepdotweb.com/2016/12/09/need-know-u-k-investigatory-powers-bill/

Seems like a bunch of it is in place, but not the internet records part?

Many of the most invasive powers in the bill haven't yet gone into force. That includes, for instance, the collection of those Internet Connection Records, which has been postponed until the government and internet companies have worked out how they can collect such information safely.

Can't seem to find anything recent on whether it is the case that coppers can just access ICRs without a warrant though, so I'm now not sure if this is still the case or they revised that.

Either way I don't like it and yeah I understand folk getting a VPN is what I was getting at.

With the bulk data collection components of it, as mentioned on the previous page yeah I think concerns about "profiling people" based on their activities, ie anti-fracking or what have you are valid.

 

[Gortron]

Just the police?

My issue with this, is what becomes illegal in the future. Example: In the UK fracking is now a part of government policy and backed by the power of the state. So does that mean that any one involved in anti-fracking, in any way, becomes a legitimate target?

No. Not being part of the UK is government backed policy in Scotland. Does that mean that anyone that wants to be part of the UK in any way becomes a legitimate target?

 

[Jacob Marshall]

...But do you really need VPN software, proxies, secure networks, and any other expensive security measures? Not unless you have something seriously important worth protecting.

So, then, if you're really considering purchasing some kind of computer security product for your home computer, other than anti-virus software - I would think twice, do you really need it?

That is for the average Joe, of course.

VPN for the price of a cup of coffee per month. Firefox with uBlock origin, Privacy Badger and a few others; all free. None of this is expensive for 'The Average Joe'.

My Privacy is important and worth protecting, what I say and to whom is personal and nobodies business but mine and them.

Before email became ubiquitous, did you post all of your correspondence on a postcard, or sealed in a letter?
Do you have intimate images of you and your partner? Do you share them, or are they private and personal?

Yes, you really need it. Not long after the IPB passed through both Houses there is now a move to make it a criminal offense for a journalist to receive leaked/whistle-blower material.

I could go on, but after a long day I'm too tired.

Personally, my opinion; I would think twice, can you really do without it?

 

[Don Alvarez]

VPN for the price of a cup of coffee per month. Firefox with uBlock origin, Privacy Badger and a few others; all free. None of this is expensive for 'The Average Joe'.

My Privacy is important and worth protecting, what I say and to whom is personal and nobodies business but mine and them.

Before email became ubiquitous, did you post all of your correspondence on a postcard, or sealed in a letter?
Do you have intimate images of you and your partner? Do you share them, or are they private and personal?

Yes, you really need it. Not long after the IPB passed through both Houses there is now a move to make it a criminal offense for a journalist to receive leaked/whistle-blower material.

I could go on, but after a long day I'm too tired.

Personally, my opinion; I would think twice, can you really do without it?

I have nothing to hide!

er, except maybe certain TV show I may or may not have downloaded, because I didn't feel like picking up a subscription to HBO...