Was hybrid networking approach ever considered? P2P is fine for most small encounters, but going to an engineer base is a constant 10-15 min wait to get into glide (same with jumping into CG system or trying to join any player coordinated activity). 3 different ISPs (and 2 different PCs) tested now and the issue persists, not sure how MC will behave as in wings it's just single CMDRs having that problem, if your captain is the one hit with 15 min loading time I guess your gunner and fighter pilot will be waiting together with him?
Hybrid networking an option?
- Thread starter szopin
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I've never had to wait 10-15 minutes to get into an engineer base!
I live on a tropical island in the middle of BFE (Guam), and I sometimes have networking tissues but nothing of that magnitude! If I use a VPN I can instance with players in mainland USA, usually without too much trouble. Without a VPN I tend to instance with Australian/NZ players.
Sometimes glide transitions aren't smooth, I'll have to wait 5-15 seconds.
I live on a tropical island in the middle of BFE (Guam), and I sometimes have networking tissues but nothing of that magnitude! If I use a VPN I can instance with players in mainland USA, usually without too much trouble. Without a VPN I tend to instance with Australian/NZ players.
Sometimes glide transitions aren't smooth, I'll have to wait 5-15 seconds.
Realise this is little help to you but I rarely have to wait more than 5-10 seconds for Engineer worlds. My internet quality is not amasing my noise and attenuation from cabinet are both quite high. Could it be something on your side of the exchange maybe?
Wow lucky you, have had those even when visiting India with my laptop (around the time alien crash site was found, 2MBit connection vs LTE or landline 20-50MBit in EU), assumed it is the same everywhere
A 10-15 minute wait to join an island/bubble/session sounds extreme.
Have you raise a support ticket for that?
Have you raise a support ticket for that?
This happens to many people, try joining GhostGiraffe/MarsYurip in one of their streams, they have on average 8-10 viewers flying with them, plenty of people in chat will complain on endless loading or not seeing half of the players if you finally manage to get in. And it changes, 3 weeks ago managed to join with little wait time, but couldn't see some of the people (if it wasn't a stream wouldn't even know about it), last time got the endless loading and never managed to join.
Pretty sure there's been plenty of tickets, if I get an endless loading just kill the client after a couple of minutes and go solo, that usually fixes it (at least for engineer bases, if you are trying to join an event there's no fix, maybe getting a wing invite from someone inside the instance but that still only helps in getting into the correct instance, load times can still be crazy)
Not saying it doesn't happen to other people but as there are many who don't have that issue there has to be more at play than FD server side issues, otherwise everyone would have the problem. Was asking you if it might actually be something at your end rather than FDs
No, its important that YOU raise a ticket, not just other people. The more data FD have, the more it helps them identify causes of network issues. If everyone just sat back and waited for FD to fix everything then you'd be waiting a long time, since they can't duplicate the same situations that the wide variety of users have.
Enable verbose logging, wait for one of those problems to occur, and then exit, grab your netlogs, and submit with a ticket to FD explaining the situation.
As for Hybrid, the networking in ED is hybrid. Its P2P between players, with various server services handling different things. One of those is the matchmaking service which determines which CMDRs should be placed in the same instance with others.
Its a bit hard to make player connections themselves hybrid... either you have to go one way or the other. P2P has some advantages, C/S has others.
Never had any issues myself. At worst it is 15 seconds or so.
I have issues with any state changes, that includes loading the mission boards etc, but the delay is usually no longer than a couple of minutes at most.
A lot of people have been complaining, enough that a developer tried to address the potential reason in a recent Q&A trying to pass it off as simple loading time, while discounting it as being a network issue. My 32 gigs of ram, ssd, 200mbit cable and packet sniffing with wireshark suggest otherwise. While the amount of information being transferred is not very large, it is not being delivered in a timely manner.
While the handshake occurs quickly there are occasions after the tcp connection has been established where there is a significant delay before information from the server is sent instead of being sent as soon as the tcp connection is established.
A lot of people have been complaining, enough that a developer tried to address the potential reason in a recent Q&A trying to pass it off as simple loading time, while discounting it as being a network issue. My 32 gigs of ram, ssd, 200mbit cable and packet sniffing with wireshark suggest otherwise. While the amount of information being transferred is not very large, it is not being delivered in a timely manner.
While the handshake occurs quickly there are occasions after the tcp connection has been established where there is a significant delay before information from the server is sent instead of being sent as soon as the tcp connection is established.
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Where do I enable that?
As I see it the problems can only get worse, you no longer are trying to squeeze in one extra player into an instance but 3 with multi-crew. If they have enough fighter bays you end up with triple the clients, no avoiding that. People are now having problems with accessing ESC menu (not to mention missions/commodities loading etc), though this never got to few minutes for me, one at most
I've definitely encountered instances that never load, or that take extreme lengths of time to load.
The RelayViaServer option seems to do just this, though you are still ultimately dependent on a peer.
The RelayViaServer option seems to do just this, though you are still ultimately dependent on a peer.
Frontier can never have enough tickets especially when squashing network bugs like this. Frontier I believe has even ask teams of ED players like the fuel rats to file more network related bug reports.
Maybe add user friendly (and accessible while 'stuck' loading an instance? who am I kidding even ESC/ALT-F4 doesn't work) 'report problem' that submits it for you like the crash reporter? Could also do the pings/traceroutes or whatever else diag is needed to properly analyse it
Hopefully all coming in 2.3, they are at least creating a GUI interface for the network part of the game.
I'm not sure if it's still in the game, but they added CTRL-L (I think) that'd send your logs to FDev when you had instancing or crashes. Not a help in this case, but it may still be in the game for the future.
Hi all,
Yesterday, with my In-game corporation, we try to start a little tournament.
In this tournament 2 teams (2 wings) have to go in a system and interdict each other and make some pvp.
We encouter too much problems to play, and the tournament was stopped.
This is the situation:
We play in a Private session.
in the start 3 members was not visible, instead other 5 members see each other. We ask 3 players to quit Client and restart and so all now see each other.
In the first interdiction the player interdicted became "Unknow" in wing and disappear from play. The player that interdict him, when entered in the wake don't see enemy so they cannot combat.
Etc. etc.
Seems to play in Alpha version of game. Bug after bug.
I ask to Frontier to seriously think an alternative method than p2p, because make tournaments in these conditions are not possible.
My idea is to let people itself to install a "player-instance-server" where they want (server farm, public servers). And let friends to use that server to manage interaction in private sessions. This server shouldn't have to do all work (money, bgs, etc...), but should only make as Network-Star-Center to all player in a session, to let them to play free and not in automatic-generated-bubble, and if a single player have network problems, so only him will lag, not all the other players.
I Hope in future Frontier think to solution like this, or even better discard p2p to a Europe/America/Asian official server.
Yesterday, with my In-game corporation, we try to start a little tournament.
In this tournament 2 teams (2 wings) have to go in a system and interdict each other and make some pvp.
We encouter too much problems to play, and the tournament was stopped.
This is the situation:
We play in a Private session.
in the start 3 members was not visible, instead other 5 members see each other. We ask 3 players to quit Client and restart and so all now see each other.
In the first interdiction the player interdicted became "Unknow" in wing and disappear from play. The player that interdict him, when entered in the wake don't see enemy so they cannot combat.
Etc. etc.
Seems to play in Alpha version of game. Bug after bug.
I ask to Frontier to seriously think an alternative method than p2p, because make tournaments in these conditions are not possible.
My idea is to let people itself to install a "player-instance-server" where they want (server farm, public servers). And let friends to use that server to manage interaction in private sessions. This server shouldn't have to do all work (money, bgs, etc...), but should only make as Network-Star-Center to all player in a session, to let them to play free and not in automatic-generated-bubble, and if a single player have network problems, so only him will lag, not all the other players.
I Hope in future Frontier think to solution like this, or even better discard p2p to a Europe/America/Asian official server.
Deleted member 38366
D
IMHO :
Until the Game's Network backend transitions from a P2P Architecture augmented by Servers to a Server Architecture augmented by P2P (at least in very select Situations), nothing will change.
Suitable Situations :
- Instancing of Players in Deep Space, if the P2P Island merging fails (fallback Option)
- any Text/Voice comms that fail via P2P (fallback Option)
- any Wing (or future Multicrew) Instance that fails to complete via P2P (again, as a fallback Option in order to ensure it mechanically still works)
I assume the additional Server load for supporting this limited Set of selected P2P-Failed events would be manageable and limited in scope - yet would drastically improve the Game experience and offer that missing Reliability.
I find it very awkward that we're supposed to operate Wings, Network Instances and soon even MultiCrew in a single Ship - in a Game Network infrastructure that can't even guarantee successful transfer of basic Text Chat...
Text chat... a network event that any 30 year old Network reliably managed to provide, using shaky Analog Modems on the Client side and 16bit tech.
The only Alternative (if no additional Server load is desired at all) would be fully heterogenous Networking and (optional) Computing :
- all connected Clients with suitable performance and connectivity parameters are used as relay network hubs (fallback) and as a CPU Resource
-> effectively means, ELITE would go into using the approach of Distributed Computing, which would be valid for several other Server-loading Tasks as well which could be offloaded to connected Clients
Until the Game's Network backend transitions from a P2P Architecture augmented by Servers to a Server Architecture augmented by P2P (at least in very select Situations), nothing will change.
Suitable Situations :
- Instancing of Players in Deep Space, if the P2P Island merging fails (fallback Option)
- any Text/Voice comms that fail via P2P (fallback Option)
- any Wing (or future Multicrew) Instance that fails to complete via P2P (again, as a fallback Option in order to ensure it mechanically still works)
I assume the additional Server load for supporting this limited Set of selected P2P-Failed events would be manageable and limited in scope - yet would drastically improve the Game experience and offer that missing Reliability.
I find it very awkward that we're supposed to operate Wings, Network Instances and soon even MultiCrew in a single Ship - in a Game Network infrastructure that can't even guarantee successful transfer of basic Text Chat...
Text chat... a network event that any 30 year old Network reliably managed to provide, using shaky Analog Modems on the Client side and 16bit tech.
The only Alternative (if no additional Server load is desired at all) would be fully heterogenous Networking and (optional) Computing :
- all connected Clients with suitable performance and connectivity parameters are used as relay network hubs (fallback) and as a CPU Resource
-> effectively means, ELITE would go into using the approach of Distributed Computing, which would be valid for several other Server-loading Tasks as well which could be offloaded to connected Clients
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Lucky you guys, I cant even connect
Cheers Cmdr's
Cheers Cmdr's