<45fps in Resource sites.

[TorTorden_VR]

Might as well put this first.
My hardware is currently is from 2014, apart from the gpu that was an upgrade around christmas 2016.
Rift.
980ti,
i5 4670k @ stock.
16gb ddr3 @ 1600mhz

I have been doing some thinking, and then a little bit of obsessing, but I have not been able to get what I would consider stable and good performance in my Rift during combat.

This is not new, it's basically been like this since I started on VR, and the Rift seem a bit more optimized than the Vive.

And I have mostly been saying to myself 'Yup VR is first gen, we will need more hardware power and optimisation before it gets good' But I have a 980ti.

It should be able to do a little more than 45 fps in combat, and I just tested, regardless of ASW or not, it drops as low, and even below the 45 fps mark even if ASW is disabled.

And if the amount of npc's drop or things calm down, I can see fps in the high 70's or more.
Graphics quality settings doesn't really do much either, currently running at medium, and supersampling and HMD quality at 1. No AA.

in supercruise, I get 90.
I get 90 or just about inside stations, unless it's also a busy instance with lots of npc's, but Resource sites, or just busy combat or on planets I start to struggle a bit.

My current working theory is the npc AI and my cpu is holding me back a bit.
I have been peeking through my nose gap at HWmon (I use CPUID HWMonitor) And I see some cores, mostly all of them, reach 80-90% utilization, then ASW kicks in and they drop to 60%.

It might just be me fooling myself, but doing things like shutting down the running AV shields, and other not really used programs seem to smooth some things out.

And in game, things like deploying SLF has an impact.
Another thing that seems to impact me is wingmen, if I have just one or two wingmen in instance I can be fine, but add a fourth and things can get real shaky when the bullets and lasers are flying.

I have tried over clocking the cpu before, but didn't really do anything.

So at the current moment I believe I am being throttled by my CPU (and possibly my slow RAM).
The fact that makes me feel rather certain on this is I see my cpu cores utilization reach about 90%, then ASW kicks in.

This new notion, and the hype around Ryzen has me thinking.
Due to VR I have been considering a new build, but I don't believe the performance gap between a 980ti and a 1080 is worth the cost.

I was hoping to at least get to next series on this card, but if it is the rest of my PC that's keeping me back.....

The thought I am having now is to maybe get a Ryzen build, keep the 980ti, and upgrade to a 2080/1180 (depending on what Nvidia decides to name it) when they release.

Currently looking at this build, but as always I really shouldn't spend the money.
But then again I don't have a SO to complain about why we have been eating oatmeal for a month...

CPU - AMD AM4 RYZEN 7 1800X 8-core
CPU cooler - Cooler Master Hyper TX3 Evo CPU cooler (It's included in the upgrade package)
Motherboard -ASUS AM4 CROSSHAIR VI HERO
RAM - 2x(32GB total) Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4 16GB
Case - Fractal Design Define R5 Sort
OS - Microsoft Windows 10 Home, (USB drive)
PSU - Corsair CX750M, 750W PSU (ATX 12V V2.3, 80 Plus Bronze, Semi-Modular. 4x 6+2pin PCIe, 8x SATA, 6x Molex
Disk 1,2 - Kingston SSDNow UV400 240GB 2.5" SSD OEM (one for OS, one for games)
Disk 3 - Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5'' HDD (big storage)

Would run me about €2k.

Thoughts, comments, or opinions ?

 

[Gunner Deckard]

Yes Cpu is bottlenecking. Rez sites are Cpu intensive and GPU light. I have 980Ti with OC and I7 4770k 4.4OC and can run 90 everywhere with slight dips in High Rez sites when there are a lot of ships.

 

[dape]

do not take the Corsair CX series PSU. It has cheap components. Go for the RMi or RMx series. Such a nice setup deserves a decent PSU.

 

[dogbite]

Overclock your cpu

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Already tried overclocking with a ghz.
Didn't do anything noticeable.

And yes the psu is the component i was most unsure of in that rig, I'll see if I can find a recommended one.

Also was testing in beta last night.
Saw 90fps in station.
Hwmon reported gpu usage of 55%.

All cpu cores nearly at 80-90%.

Thanks for the replies, I was a little worried I was going nuts, and end up 2k on something that would go nowhere 8


Update.

Swapped the PSU for a RM850X.

 

[Milopapa]

I'm in the exact same shoes!
Except I have a 3570k overclocked to 4.2GHz, but i've also come to the conclusion that my CPU is bottlenecking me, especially in stations and RES. VR is just extra stressful on CPU I think, what with SteamVR running in the background, eating up to 20% CPU.
Also planning to upgrade to a Ryzen, just waiting to see some more benchmarks, especially around gaming.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Poodles.

Nvidia just announced the 1080ti and it sounds sweet.....

 

[vic]

I just went thru recent upgrade. I was using a older gen cpu (XEON E5530) and I was getting stuttering all over the place and that was with a GTX1080!
Outside stations my fps was 50-60. But after having replaced the mobo/cpu to more recent (i5-4670K), but still not the latest/greatest I know, my fps around stations is pretty much locked at 75HZ(I'm using DK2). SO lesson I recently learned is even the best graphics card ain't nothing, if you don't have great cpu to compliment it!

Advice to you: Change your mobo/cpu (the fastest possible) but keep your 980Ti for now. If you still not happy, which I doubt, then upgrade the graphics card.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

So I consider it pretty much decided, it's my mobo-cpu.
This is good I have an action plan

It's really not a problem around stations, well asw kicks in a lot, it's when the cpu can't even keep up with the 45 fps interleaving things turn into a real garbled mess, this mostly only happen in busy combat situations and wing instances.

I have actually hit the order button on the aforementioned Ryzen build. But alas I am having doubts.
I have been an Intel man for so long it's seriously wierd going on an amd.
And the 'safe' option is always to wait some more....

 

[B1rdy]

What are your quality settings? Let the Taskamanager run in the backgrund and check CPU utilization after stuttering occurred.

I have a 6800k@4Ghz (SMT disabled) and a 980Ti@1,4Ghz. Most of the quality settings (except textures) are set from off to medium at most, no SS. With that settings ED runs at 90FPS most of the time. There is still some stuttering when dropping from SC.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Medium to low settings in game. No AA, blur, ambient occlusion etc.
No super sampling and hmd quality at 1.

I also find taskman a bit dodgy and it measures nothing when it comes to temperatures and gpu use.

I therefore use http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html
And as you say, you have a better cpu than me and I I am really close with my i5.

I think in some cases,, especially if I go hmd quality 1.25, I can hit throttling on the gpu. That's OK just means ASW kicks in.

But in RES's and busy combat scenarios, I often fly with a group so that often mean 3 corvettes and a conda, each with npc slf', and we start picking on several wings at once.
Well that's when things get hinky and look like a psychedelic grunge-pop video from the 90's.

I am also now starting to seriously consider just forking out for the 1080ti as well....

And yeah I have been peaking on the hwmon, and when things go blurry it coincides with high cpu usage.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Hmm I'm finding the now just released ryzen tests a bit disappointing.
And yeah if I was going for a blender render farm it would be an easy choice but from the looks of it the kaby lake 7700 seems to beat it where I would prefer my performance.

And I can do that build for £100 less...

£100 would be handy going towards a 1080ti....

 

[Y2K]

Doubt its your cpu bottlenecking that. Download hardware monitor and look at your cpu usage > if its 100% or close to then yeh it maybe but i seriously doubt it. My system runs around 30% cpu usage ( gtx1080 ). Wont be your ram so you can forget that.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Doubt its your cpu bottlenecking that. Download hardware monitor and look at your cpu usage > if its 100% or close to then yeh it maybe but i seriously doubt it. My system runs around 30% cpu usage ( gtx1080 ). Wont be your ram so you can forget that.

Yeah, I'm right there on the edge, but I am seeing 90% and above utilization on all cores in certain cases.
In other cases it's the gpu that limits.

Keep in mind there is a few differences betwen an i7 4770k and an i5 4670k that I have, and it's only running 3.ghz.
And if I hit areas that tax both it's like a shot from Shark Tale (underwater and genereally bad).
And it's the busy instances with lots of npc's in combat that is the worst.

But yeah, it's probably close, in fact most likely I could upgrade to an i7 4770k and probably be done..

But new box.......

I know what I should do.

Nothing, and just see what happens around summer time.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

@TorTorden

I agree - it is looking likely that its the cpu. I've seen several threads now where an i5, even overclocked isn't quite cutting the mustard for VR.

Obviously in VR, the cpu load is double for the rendering portion of the steroe viewpoints, so cannot be compared to 2D loads.

You can check how the CPU is performing using the Oculus Debug Tool - it has an App Render Performance HUD which will show you the "Missed Submit" and app rendering timings. It may just point to the cpu as well, but it might confirm a little more clarity - Task Manager is pretty much rubbish other than as a very general performance monitor.
Oculus Debug tool will use the internal Rift timings/deadlines data that's relevant just for ED (or whatever VR app you have running).

However, most with cpu bottle-necking have just opted for a whole new PC with such high specs that you wouldn't know if it was the cpu at fault after all

In summary;
@vic has a good point - you probably aren't getting the most out of your 980Ti - it ain't no slouch and will perform significantly better given the new cpu and motherboard/ram. I would upgrade the base components but keep the 980Ti for now... that way you will see a noticeable improvement but can always upgrade to 1080/ 1080Ti if you want to shortly thereafter.

The only thing the 1080/Ti will do for you is enable 1.25x or (for the Ti) 1.5x HMD quality supersdampling. Which does make a nice difference with the current-gen headsets like the Rift.

Would strongly advise the largest SSD you can use for the system disk. 240GB would be a minimum. If you don't buy the 1080/Ti straight up, opt for a bigger 500GB EVO8 or similar SSD. That way all your games and VR apps can be in Steam and Oculus libraries on the fast disk. Leave the spinner disks for movies.

 

[X-Terminator]

Are you sure ASW gets switched off? Do you notice an obvious change? Tell me the keys you use but I also wonder if you have another bind contradicting them as can happen lots. I often still get the known Alt&TAB occurring somehow. Must be stuck keys! Anyway do tell me plus what is the method you use to determine fps on Rift? I tried Virtual Desktop but I'm not convinced it track it. Of course your Monitor with CONTROL&F shows your Monitor fps and NOT your Rift. Oculus Debug Tool perhaps? (which is now not needed since 2.2 for SS yet SS creates stutters)

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

Are you sure ASW gets switched off? Do you notice an obvious change? Tell me the keys you use but I also wonder if you have another bind contradicting them as can happen lots. I often still get the known Alt&TAB occurring somehow. Must be stuck keys! Anyway do tell me plus what is the method you use to determine fps on Rift? I tried Virtual Desktop but I'm not convinced it track it. Of course your Monitor with CONTROL&F shows your Monitor fps and NOT your Rift. Oculus Debug Tool perhaps? (which is now not needed since 2.2 for SS yet SS creates stutters)

The ED in-game Ctrl-F frame rate counter visible in the monitor window shows the correct application frame rate. Depending on your monitor, it won't physically show more than 60fps, but the frame counter number is correct.

If you force ASW on, it will drop to 45fps, turn it off and it will return to the previous frame rate.

This can be also be confirmed using the App Render Timings HUD in the Oculus Debug Tool. Note that you don't need the Oculus Debug Tool running to have the different ASW modes... they're built in to the Oculus driver/SDK since v1.9. 980Ti will do ASW as well.

[NumLock On]
Control-Numpad1: Disables ASW and returns to the standard rendering mode. (ATW only)
Control-Numpad2: Forces apps to 45Hz with ASW disabled. Depending on the application, you are likely to experience judder.
Control-Numpad3: Forces apps to 45Hz with ASW enabled. Enabling and disabling ASW will help you see the effects of ASW.
Control-Numpad4: Enables ASW. ASW automatically turns on and off, depending on whether the app maintains a 90Hz frame rate. This is the default runtime rendering mode.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Are you sure ASW gets switched off? Do you notice an obvious change? Tell me the keys you use but I also wonder if you have another bind contradicting them as can happen lots. I often still get the known Alt&TAB occurring somehow. Must be stuck keys! Anyway do tell me plus what is the method you use to determine fps on Rift? I tried Virtual Desktop but I'm not convinced it track it. Of course your Monitor with CONTROL&F shows your Monitor fps and NOT your Rift. Oculus Debug Tool perhaps? (which is now not needed since 2.2 for SS yet SS creates stutters)

Yes it's quite obvious, both on the frame counter (that does display correctly).
The problem isn't ASW per say, it's when the pc fails to even keep up with the 45 fps render target for ASW that is terrible.
And disabling ASW doesn't do anything in these cases, when I dip to 30fps I dip to 30fps regardless, but again these are rare cases.

After reading some of the new benches I have canceled my ryzen build, I was somewhat considering a new build when the next series of nvidia cards get releases.
But that is just a point release and the 1080ti is looking quite sweet.
I am currently looking at a new build with mostly same parts.
Apart from:


Intel Core i7-7700K
Corsair Hydro Series H75 (I have one on my i5 already, I like it)
ASUS ROG Maximus IX Hero, Socket-1151
Corsair Force MP500 240GB M.2 PCIe SSD (up to 3000/2400MB/s read/write)

I have dropped the spinny disk, and one of the 250gb SSD's, and looking at a system disk on the PCIe variety,
I am currently on an 128GB ssd for system, and I have barely used half of it.
I would probably at least for the start keep one or two of my old spinny disks for downloads folder\pic's\videos etc.

But I really should wait another few months.....

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

Nyummy - those M2 drives are just blisteringly fast.

Just be aware if you do have a little water leak from the cpu, the M2 drives are in a vulnerable spot. They screw into the motherboard below the video card.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes it's quite obvious, both on the frame counter (that does display correctly).
The problem isn't ASW per say, it's when the pc fails to even keep up with the 45 fps render target for ASW that is terrible.
And disabling ASW doesn't do anything in these cases, when I dip to 30fps I dip to 30fps regardless, but again these are rare cases.

Yep, agree.

 

[B1rdy]

Obviously in VR, the cpu load is double for the rendering portion of the steroe viewpoints, so cannot be compared to 2D loads.

This is just wrong. If that were the case, 4 core CPUs couldn't handle VR at all. Physics, audio, AI, the main game loop for example are calculated once.

Nyummy - those M2 drives are just blisteringly fast.

Yes, but they don't increase FPS in games and only maybe cut a few seconds off (if at all) while loading a game. Not worth the price for a gaming rig.

Btw. the task manager is good for having a history of the CPU load.

Intel Core i7-7700K
Corsair Hydro Series H75 (I have one on my i5 already, I like it)
ASUS ROG Maximus IX Hero, Socket-1151
Corsair Force MP500 240GB M.2 PCIe SSD (up to 3000/2400MB/s read/write)

Do you have some specials needs or why are planning on buying such an expensive motherboard? It's not faster than one for half the price.