They are extremely annoying - peoples who won't accept random PVP encounters.

[Spudmuffin]

Didn't mean to trigger you.
If the option to have solo and private groups was never mentioned then there would be nothing to miss.
You and others may have bought the game anyway, learned how to not die and enjoyed a challenge for once.
Or.
Yes, you and others may not have bought the game but I do not care. And no one would have to listen to these PVE/PVP/Solo/Open whinefests.
Frontier tried this new concept but it is not working. So now because of this appeasing of the "challenges scare me" crowd, we have three modes with one shared galaxy which is stupid.
Since these modes are stuck now. Solo mode should just have it's own galaxy just affected by the one person in it. The same for groups as well.

If you're still in this...

You don't have to care. Youas an individual player don't matter. Frontier has to care. It's their game, their business, and they want as many people buying their game as possible. Once they have your money, whether you keep playing it or not is inconsequential to them. They are nice enough to re-balance things and add new content (or I guess really "finish" the game) as they see fit, or as the community demands. They want you to play it, but really, they want more people to play it, and while yes, PvP may have been mentioned in some regard, it was a marketing gimmick to get you pubelords to buy it and boy o boy did you subscribe.

There is a much larger portion of Elite players that play Solo.
Actually, this is pure conjecture. I would like for Frontier to release the numbers on this. Prove me right or wrong, ultimately doesn't matter. New players still join open as it is the first option after selecting Start. You have to go out of your way (marginally) to select Group or Solo.

Also, PvP as is described by you and other gank-types, isn't a challenge. Being outnumbered isn't a challenge. Being fondled by a player with a significantly better ship, isn't a challenge. I suppose you would place an infant and a warrior elite grown adult in the same arena and tell the infant to accept the 'challenge'. Are you really so delusional?

A challenge would be 2 players in marginally equal craft, and/or more-or-less equal supporting NPC's or Player Teammates, fighting it out. Thats why in Multiplayer game modes, its always 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, 6v6, 8v8, 12v12, etc etc so on and so forth. The game doesn't stack the teams unfairly to one teams advantage (even auto sorting takes player life-time performance and sorts teams in as close an even match as possible, with some exceptions, being grouped players, odd number of players, players that leave in the lobby before match start, etc etc et al visa vi).

What you're talking about isn't challenge. It's layered griefing, justified by the sole fact that there aren't sufficient systems in place to discern this game as a being classified as a "multiplayer" game.

Dark Souls, is challenging. But when you die, you can always get your souls back when you make it back to where you died.

MineCraft is an open sandbox, but with a few exceptions, you can get your inventory back after you die.

Elite Dangerous offers none of this because it is a Grind Game for the sake of the Grind. Players being pubelords stacks the odds against the legitimate players that want to experience the core game as it was clearly intended to be played. That is why most of these people find group-play or solo play more appealing.

Gaud forbid the devs put totally immersive systems in place (It is the job of the Government to ensure the safety of its people, and its guests) to make it more challenging for these PvPers to actually kill a player. You know, actual consequence. I guess you also would prefer your neighbor beat his wife to death, and lul at her funeral because she was a dumb noob that couldn't take the challenge. What kind of sick psycho farquards are you people? Accept personal responsibility, accept consequence to criminally insane psychopathy behavior, and for the love of all the barbecue sauce, grow a pair and realize that not every person in this world lacks the mental and emotional acuity to suppress lesser, baser urges.

Just Sayin'.

 

[Tarman]

If you're still in this...

You don't have to care. Youas an individual player don't matter. Frontier has to care. It's their game, their business, and they want as many people buying their game as possible. Once they have your money, whether you keep playing it or not is inconsequential to them. They are nice enough to re-balance things and add new content (or I guess really "finish" the game) as they see fit, or as the community demands. They want you to play it, but really, they want more people to play it, and while yes, PvP may have been mentioned in some regard, it was a marketing gimmick to get you pubelords to buy it and boy o boy did you subscribe.

There is a much larger portion of Elite players that play Solo.
Actually, this is pure conjecture. I would like for Frontier to release the numbers on this. Prove me right or wrong, ultimately doesn't matter. New players still join open as it is the first option after selecting Start. You have to go out of your way (marginally) to select Group or Solo.

Also, PvP as is described by you and other gank-types, isn't a challenge. Being outnumbered isn't a challenge. Being fondled by a player with a significantly better ship, isn't a challenge. I suppose you would place an infant and a warrior elite grown adult in the same arena and tell the infant to accept the 'challenge'. Are you really so delusional?

A challenge would be 2 players in marginally equal craft, and/or more-or-less equal supporting NPC's or Player Teammates, fighting it out. Thats why in Multiplayer game modes, its always 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, 6v6, 8v8, 12v12, etc etc so on and so forth. The game doesn't stack the teams unfairly to one teams advantage (even auto sorting takes player life-time performance and sorts teams in as close an even match as possible, with some exceptions, being grouped players, odd number of players, players that leave in the lobby before match start, etc etc et al visa vi).

What you're talking about isn't challenge. It's layered griefing, justified by the sole fact that there aren't sufficient systems in place to discern this game as a being classified as a "multiplayer" game.

Dark Souls, is challenging. But when you die, you can always get your souls back when you make it back to where you died.

MineCraft is an open sandbox, but with a few exceptions, you can get your inventory back after you die.

Elite Dangerous offers none of this because it is a Grind Game for the sake of the Grind. Players being pubelords stacks the odds against the legitimate players that want to experience the core game as it was clearly intended to be played. That is why most of these people find group-play or solo play more appealing.

Gaud forbid the devs put totally immersive systems in place (It is the job of the Government to ensure the safety of its people, and its guests) to make it more challenging for these PvPers to actually kill a player. You know, actual consequence. I guess you also would prefer your neighbor beat his wife to death, and lul at her funeral because she was a dumb noob that couldn't take the challenge. What kind of sick psycho farquards are you people? Accept personal responsibility, accept consequence to criminally insane psychopathy behavior, and for the love of all the barbecue sauce, grow a pair and realize that not every person in this world lacks the mental and emotional acuity to suppress lesser, baser urges.

Just Sayin'.

What happened to you in your last MP game to traumatize you so badly?

 

[Arindor]

Or draw the equivalent as PvPers calling for removing Solo and Group.

This. Very. Much. This.

 

[Spudmuffin]

What happened to you in your last MP game to traumatize you so badly?

Last multiplayer game?

Hm, For Honor. 1v1 duel. I won. I'm decent at the game, even better at 1v1 and 2v2. Where gear doesn't matter, only how well you fight with your chosen hero. Should try it some time.

Last MMO PvP? Well, I don't really MMO PvP for the same reason. It's depenent upon level and gear, nothing else.

 

[Arindor]

BTW folks, what round IS this of the open v solo sluggfest? I'm sure all this has been said before ...

 

[Spudmuffin]

BTW folks, what round IS this of the open v solo sluggfest? I'm sure all this has been said before ...

Every game that has a single player component, and a multiplayer component is going to have endless rounds of this-- why keep track? With new players joining regularly enough, its bound to happen.

So long as PvPers are going to defecate all over 'bad' players, this is going to be an issue to the PvE'ers.

So long as PvE'ers are going to have their opinions on why PvP is bad constantly validated by the vitriol spewed from the diseased oily fingertips of sheit players that want nothing more than to ruin someone elses day... its going to continue to be an issue.

And so long as PvE'ers constantly try to find ways to rectify the problem, the PvPers will fervently defend their sheitty behavior tooth and nail with some arbitrary excuse "it's the internet" "git gud" "you're not really dying" "its just a video game" "hur dur carebear hur dur" "whine some more" "your saltiness pleases me" etc etc etc.... which further validates why PvP needs to be regulated. So long as people will be so elitist, look down on others for playing against their playstyle, this conversation will never end.

 

[Tarman]

Last multiplayer game?

Hm, For Honor. 1v1 duel. I won. I'm decent at the game, even better at 1v1 and 2v2. Where gear doesn't matter, only how well you fight with your chosen hero. Should try it some time.

Last MMO PvP? Well, I don't really MMO PvP for the same reason. It's depenent upon level and gear, nothing else.

Bleah, arena combat; not my thing, it's waaaay too formalized so to me a modern version is just a really really detailed version of Street Fighter. The last time I really enjoyed any of that was in MW3 and that's because it was giant robots. Warzone over coliseum for me thanks. I prefer games that can test my survival skills against various environments that don't care how fair they are to me, but can also provide me tools and methods to live and thrive if I make an effort. I don't want fair and honourable as the default, because if I find it in the wild, it's more meaningful and not merely forced by hyperlimited engagement terms, and if I don't I'm not mysteriously surprised at its absence.

I don't get this whole static you keep spinning about people being actually murderous IRL if they derezz someone in a game. That is just simply not a reflection of the truth. It badly destabilizes any other point you're trying to make about game mechanics when you're demonizing fellow video game players by accusing them of actually condoning real murder, as if that's equivalent to them playing an online game within its expected and advertised ruleset. That's just not going to help anything you say to have this huuuuuge chip on your shoulder about open-world player interaction dynamics.

To draw an analogy of what I see of your misplaced anger; you are yelling ooc at the actors who play the villains as if they were actual villains, while you yourself are playing a non-villainous character on that same stage. Even boxers and other bloodsport combatants don't hate on each other this much, and they actually physically injure each other on purpose as part of their careers.

 

[Shar]

Someone had a thought bubble.............Pop.

Idea rejected.... next.

When will the pvp pew pew brigade come to terms with the fact their the minority and just be happy you have a mode to be stupid in. unfortunatly most of us are not interested in playing with you your not the game we bought.

ED is a great single player PVE game, open is just a side show to raise a bit of extra cash....know your place.

 

[anikaiful]

Elite is sold as sandbox game, there is no info about that you are safe, no one can harm etc. So why that many peoples trying to ban random PVP? 0_0. Maybe they should go play Space Engine?
I agree that proper C&P system will be great, but totally banning PVP by adding Open PVP or some stupid flags, restrictive matchmaking etc... It is really annoying.

It is exactly the same as PVPers calling for removing Solo and Group...

Accept the game design and deal with it.

Some people play to socialize, with random folks - and random folks does not happen in PGs or Solo. Some of those socializers don't want to even hear of PvP, but they do want to meet new people. So yea, think about that.

 

[Spudmuffin]

Bleah, arena combat; not my thing, it's waaaay too formalized so to me a modern version is just a really really detailed version of Street Fighter. The last time I really enjoyed any of that was in MW3 and that's because it was giant robots. Warzone over coliseum for me thanks. I prefer games that can test my survival skills against various environments that don't care how fair they are to me, but can also provide me tools and methods to live and thrive if I make an effort. I don't want fair and honourable as the default, because if I find it in the wild, it's more meaningful and not merely forced by hyperlimited engagement terms, and if I don't I'm not mysteriously surprised at its absence.

I don't get this whole static you keep spinning about people being actually murderous IRL if they derezz someone in a game. That is just simply not a reflection of the truth. It badly destabilizes any other point you're trying to make about game mechanics when you're demonizing fellow video game players by accusing them of actually condoning real murder, as if that's equivalent to them playing an online game within its expected and advertised ruleset. That's just not going to help anything you say to have this huuuuuge chip on your shoulder about open-world player interaction dynamics.

To draw an analogy of what I see of your misplaced anger; you are yelling ooc at the actors who play the villains as if they were actual villains, while you yourself are playing a non-villainous character on that same stage. Even boxers and other bloodsport combatants don't hate on each other this much, and they actually physically injure each other on purpose as part of their careers.

I get the draw to PvP. There is a level of satisfaction in killing others. But I am equally as accomplished by not dying in RES.

My overall message is that people seem to think that PvP is the end-all be-all of a video game and people shouldn't get their knickers twisted when they die in the game. But it happens, for one reason or another. In my case, its not the actual death that I care about. It's the loss of progress, in a grind game. The rebuilding is ultimately an unnecessary time-sink at the end of the day. If I am ganked in a game by multiple people or if I am outleveled or outgeared, yeah I should be mad, I had no control over that, nothing I could do but die. However, it sounds like you're confusing this action with 'challenge'. When its not. And considering that is the buzzword; "Challenge" it is as if people don't understand what challenge implies. That you can overcome it with your own effort. A HazRES can be a challenge for me at the moment because I have died in HiRES. Combat Zones I never really make it out of alive because my ships can't take much in the way of damage. My Viper MK 4 is my highest survival armor-tank meaning my shields pop and I have enough hull to wait out the FSD charge and make it out with at least 50% hull integrity.

As far as your own analogy, it makes sense if I the players willingly subscribed/enlisted into the PvP. Boxers and Bloodsport combatants train up for years before they enter the competitive arena, and they're fights are scheduled, and (surprise) regulated by rules.

I often draw extreme hyperbole for analogies to illustrate the concept of the mentality. Bullying is bullying no matter the medium. And that is precisely what a ganker is. A bully. They pick on the lesser and cower at straight fights. The number one counter to a bully, more often than not, is to stand up for yourself, and not let yourself be pushed around. In some MMO's, you can call upon friends or a guild for aide. In this game, you have only yourself most of the time and if you are still a 90lb scrawny nerd, that bully will still pick on you until you've bloodied their nose, somehow.

But if you're cargo ship doesn't have weapons.... can't really do that, can you? Just have to accept the defeat and go out of your way to find something else to do to regrind the loss.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Elite is sold as sandbox game, there is no info about that you are safe, no one can harm etc. So why that many peoples trying to ban random PVP? 0_0. Maybe they should go play Space Engine?
I agree that proper C&P system will be great, but totally banning PVP by adding Open PVP or some stupid flags, restrictive matchmaking etc... It is really annoying.

It is exactly the same as PVPers calling for removing Solo and Group...

Accept the game design and deal with it.

Perhaps because OPEN goes a lot against the very lore and mechanics IN the game?

- All systems have a security rating
- All systems have law enforcement (or at least a ruling faction in the case of anarchy)

While the security is lackluster one SHOULD be safe from hostile attacks in high security areas like SOL and ACHENAR simply because it's THE most secure systems in existence due to being a seat of government.

- Open ignores all that even MORE since it's anarchy EVERYWHERE with CMDR's

I mean, we have commanders with 50+ MILLION in bounties and no faction or law enforcement CARE about it.

What's the point of having law enforcement in the game IF THE LAW IS NOT ENFORCED?

So yea, I have no problem with PVP in open, I have a problem that the game completely falls flat on it's face in making system security actually MATTER and create CONSEQUENCES outside of Anarchy systems.

Elite DANGEROUS should be dangerous for ALL involved.

- One player suffers a rebuy
- The other player is WANTED, and WANTED should mean that the LAW is after them like flies on dung - not ignoring them.

And do not get me started on the scapegoat technique of suicidewinder...

 

[Minonian]

So long as PvPers are going to defecate all over 'bad' players, this is going to be an issue to the PvE'ers..

Well... I have the tendency to kick the butt of defecating players, and also think this kind of "persons" to say it nicely, must be removed. Peace with them is just not possible.

which further validates why PvP needs to be regulated.

Yes.

- - - Updated - - -

When will the pvp pew pew brigade come to terms with the fact their the minority and just be happy you have a mode to be stupid in. unfortunatly most of us are not interested in playing with you your not the game we bought.

This was a question? Because the answer is never! But ourselves, and the devs can argue about the problems and find a working resolution, understand the problem.

 

[Shar]

Well... I have the tendency to kick the butt of defecating players, and also think this kind of "persons" to say it nicely, must be removed. Peace with them is just not possible.


Yes.

- - - Updated - - -



This was a question? Because the answer is never! But ourselves, and the devs can argue about the problems and find a working resolution, understand the problem.

Well i'm sorry maybe it's me but i dont see the OP as a question seems more of a statement and an inacurate one at that, he begins explaining its sold as a sandbox so we should deal with that, which is a half truth as the reason i bought elite was online solo play otherwise i would not be here at all. So it was sold to me as a solo game and thats what i want and expect.

This is what i see in my imagination when i read this kind of thread - Little 12 year old billy walks into the kitchen carrying a nail spiked baseball bat and states "momey why want the other kids play with me" If open had a hardcore C+P system it might be different but the way it is it's a joke, then we all wonder why mobius is so popular it probably has more followers than open because it is realistic you murder your finnished.

Some players just want to turn every game in the world into a ist person shootering arena. For those that want to run around shooting everything that moves i can surgest dozens of titles. You have your open enjoy it but dont be complaining that you dont get enough cannon fodder. It's as simple as you made your bed now sleep in it.

 

[Minonian]

Well i'm sorry maybe it's me but i dont see the OP as a question seems more of a statement and an inacurate one at that, he begins explaining its sold as a sandbox so we should deal with that, which is a half truth as the reason i bought elite was online solo play otherwise i would not be here at all. So it was sold to me as a solo game and thats what i want and expect.

This is what i see in my imagination when i read this kind of thread - Little 12 year old billy walks into the kitchen carrying a nail spiked baseball bat and states "momey why want the other kids play with me" If open had a hardcore C+P system it might be different but the way it is it's a joke, then we all wonder why mobius is so popular it probably has more followers than open because it is realistic you murder your finnished.

I saying the same. Peace with them is just not possible, they are trolling and whining in the forum about no one wants to play with them! You can burn em to crisps refute all of their "reason", but always coming back. One griefer or another? they will just keep doing it, without the slightest regards with the others needs and the problems they are causing. They don't care! Because it's fun to them and we must accept this even if it's means suffering to us.
Right... Excuse me to be rude, but you know what? They can accept my boot in their butt, and whenever they are like it or not? I either wake out or log out, or just blow up my ship so they can't tally a kill. these are the only thing they will ever going to see happen. And sure as hell i don't give a damn about their whining. No meal to monsters!

Btw, Shar as (A)D&D forgotten realms godess?

 

[Shar]

I saying the same. Peace with them is just not possible, they are trolling and whining in the forum about no one wants to play with them! You can burn em to crisps refute all of their "reason", but always coming back. One griefer or another? they will just keep doing it, without the slightest regards with the others needs and the problems they are causing. They don't care! Because it's fun to them and we must accept this even if it's means suffering to us.
Right... Excuse me to be rude, but you know what? They can accept my boot in their butt, and whenever they are like it or not? I either wake out or log out, or just blow up my ship so they can't tally a kill. these are the only thing they will ever going to see happen. No meal for monsters!

Btw, Shar as (A)D&D forgotten realms godess?

Well said. Frontier created the problem with no hardcore C+P and then a certain imature group of players turned open into a toxic wasteland it took the brilliant mobius to design a stopgap version of open and its a massive success. Anyone who really gives a dam about open would be campaining for a C+P. That is your only hope in the longrun personnaly i would not care if they closed open tommorrow the way it is its a waste of good development time.

Yes big (A)D&D fan Ive put 3000 hours into DDO funny turbine never had the sort of problems they have here. They enforce.

 

[Minonian]

i would not care if they closed open tommorrow the way it is its a waste of good development time.

And that's the problem. because otherwise open can be the bond of the community, but for that? This kind of immature devilish idiots must be heavily regulated.

 

[Nutter]

Not as annoying as people who typify arguing for an Open PvE mode as banning PvP.

Or draw the equivalent as PvPers calling for removing Solo and Group.

edit: By the way: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-system-ever?p=5205707&viewfull=1#post5205707

Is that how you accept the game design and deal with it?

Rep + That is game over right there! Why is the thread still open though?

 

[Shar]

And that's the problem. because otherwise open can be the bond of the community, but for that? This kind of immature devilish idiots must be heavily regulated.

Yes, The route cause of opens problem is Frontier are too soft. You could say it lacks adult supervision. then unfortunatly for open the vast vast majority of elite players are thinking intelligent mature people who play solo or pg because there more realistic, I mean who wants to talk to commander Imabiginpantsdeathkillerfromhell it sort of puts you off.

 

[Minonian]

Yes, The route cause of opens problem is Frontier are too soft. You could say it lacks adult supervision.

Agreed. And for their part this is a mistake, because it's costs us the will to pay, and play, and costs them loss of income. And to change the way how FD get revenue can't change this because for that? ganking still remains a problem.

 

[verminstar]

Rep + That is game over right there! Why is the thread still open though?

Stress relief? Never underestimate the healing power of comedy ^