Anyone posted the changes for Exploration in 2.3?

[Straha Yeagar]

Also, the credit values for star scans were the same I think. I'll try test these some more. I'd also test whether exploration rank progression was changed, but unfortunately, I can't do that.

Oh, and about megaships and exploration: I don't know about the other megaships, but Fisher's Rest at Aldebaran has all sizes of landing pads, and it has all facilities except a shipyard. So there's at least one kind of megaships which you can sell exploration data at.

The same as in the same as they are right now pre beta, or the same as in 10x what they currently are?

What I really wish they could do is have a dynamic scale for payouts based on current total discovery types by all players...so the more one type, such as M type stars gets reported, the lower the value relative to other, less reported types. I know that is unlikely, so I think the next best thing they could do is have the payouts at least in part relative to the actual commonness of the body. It is reasonable that Earth Like bodies, and terraforming candidates are worth more than others, but why is the relatively common Class II gas giant worth more than comparatively rare Water Giant, or exceedingly rare Helium Rich gas giant?

 

[Allitnil]

I can confirm that ELWs now have a massively increased payout. EOL PROU LW-L C8-83 7 at just over 20 LY from Colonia is giving me 725,907 credits so likely at least 10x current levels. Stars seem to have a much smaller increase, maybe 10%. Other bodies look to be double or more (very tentative conclusion based on values just from the discovery scanner). More testing is obviously required.

Hate to say it, but I don't for a moment think that the rank credit requirements will have been changed. They weren't for the passenger missions. They weren't for the last 10% or so boost to credits. The only time I can recall that they were adjusted was when in early 2015 the credits were doubled across the board and even then the intended implementation was grossly unfair to anyone who was reasonably close to getting Elite (no taking into account that past discoveries were made at the lower rate). If there was any such intention now then the patch notes would state it. All the evidence is that this sort of issue is either not considered or ignored.

More worryingly still the entire Core seems to have disappeared, at least visually. If any of you are near the Core in beta please take a look and see if it seems to be remotely similar to 2.2 & earlier. For me it seems to have lost all of its magnificence

 

[marx]

The same as in the same as they are right now pre beta, or the same as in 10x what they currently are?

Oh, sorry, the same as they are in 2.2. Still looking at payouts for various body types, but it's clear they weren't all multiplied by ten.

@ Allitnil: Since you're in the core, how are the payouts for neutron stars, white dwarfs and black holes? Also, any screenies about this bug? It sounds worrying.

 

[Allitnil]

I got 54,815 for the neutron star at Eol Prou BA-Q d5-246 but I'm not sure what the current payouts are. It does seem high but obviously not in the 10x range.

I've not got a good screenshot of the core, sorry. I started at a place about 10k north of it and 2k above and it looked very wrong (or at least different). My intention was to self destruct back to Colonia and then neutron boost the 3K to a system that is 3,200 below the plane where I could do a direct comparison with shots I took a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately I seem to be getting connection errors every time I try and neutron boost. I'll try again tomorrow when maybe the servers are less stressed.

 

[Qohen Leth]

No love for the Wolf-Rayets? :'(

Also: *sigh*.

 

[marx]

Seems like it's the terraforming candidate bonus that got the largest boost. Some examples:
HIP 24180 AB 2: HMC, 36,199 Cr
HIP 116559 B 2: HMC+TC, 393,868 Cr
HIP 116559 B 1 (binary with the above): ELW, 663,915 Cr
Yum Kamcabi A 5: WW being terraformed (so TC?), 606,519 Cr

I think this could have been handled better. Terraforming candidates are considerably more frequent than Earth-like worlds, yet are again worth nearly the same amount of credits. It would have been better to have ELW-s at this rate and have the terraforming candidates at, say, double the pre-beta amount.

 

[MattG]

Very cool.

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

Yeah this is all excellent news. DL'ing beta as I type this.

 

[Redfox]

I hope the factor to increase the ELW and TC payouts is just a typo (+1000% instead of +10%). As much as I like a good payout for rarer bodies, this ~10-fold increase just seems way over the top.

 

[osser]

When will 2.3 drop?

Edit to add what does this mean?

•Stop awarding First Discovery bonuses of zero credits.

you mean after 18 months of 1st discovery's there's 0 credit bonus!!!!

say it isn't so...
please

 

[Qohen Leth]

•Stop awarding First Discovery bonuses of zero credits.

I read: Fixed the issue when someone receives a bonus of 0 Cr.

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I hope the factor to increase the ELW and TC payouts is just a typo (+1000% instead of +10%). As much as I like a good payout for rarer bodies, this ~10-fold increase just seems way over the top.

Talking about rare shinies, I'd suggest a much higher payout for Wolf-Rayets, supergiants, etc. then. ELW are rare, but not *that* much. I'm sure less than 3,000 supergiants have been found so far... On the other hand, if we were to base value on some sort of utility criterium that would push ELWs way above the rest (for say, colonization), well, then why high payouts for NS, and seeing as humanity is apparently not in a process of colonization and certainly not farther than a few ly away from the bubble, not sure a very high payout for ELWs would then be justified.

It all seems so arbitrary. *rolls eyes*

 

[marx]

Yeah, the exploration payouts have always been quite inconsistent and with no clear principle apparent behind them. This hasn't changed yet. While this change would be a step in the right direction, the way things have been changed looks like as if it were a five-minute job by an intern. Thankfully, since this isn't live yet, it can be changed: I'd recommend to everyone concerned about this to write in the 2.3 beta subforum, along with suggestions on how to do it better. I'll be doing so later too.

In other news, more things which might be of interest to explorers: apparently, asteroid bases can be found well outside the bubble, as several Commanders have posted various ones, like in the Crab Nebula, Thor's Helmet, Eagle Nebula and such. The patch notes said "Added 32 asteroid bases in various deep space locations", so it looks like they really meant deep space.

 

[Zeeman]

It might be nothing for you, but for people who are not used to travelling even 200 ly, it's a lot and also a huge waste of time. Plus it's not even exploration, just long distance travel. Meanwhile, a combat-focused pilot might likely say that reaching Dangerous is a rather trivial matter too.
...

You can do 5kLY in a basic sidey with a fuel scoop and a rated fsd in way less time then it takes to get dangerous with an engineered FDL.

Z...

 

[marx]

You can do 5kLY in a basic sidey with a fuel scoop in less time then it takes to get dangerous with an engineered FDL.

Z...

As I wrote in the next sentence after the one you quoted from me, "We could go over about the specifics more, but it's the basic principle that's wrong here. Explorer mods shouldn't require combat unlocks, combat mods shouldn't require explorer outlocks, and so on. But, unfortunately, right now they do."
Reaching Dangerous rank in an FdL (even stock, let alone an engineered one) is easy and just a matter of time, but that still shouldn't be the requirement, as it rewards combat ranking with explorer mods. That's just bad game design. So what you quoted really wasn't my main point.

 

[Zeeman]

Seems like it's the terraforming candidate bonus that got the largest boost. Some examples:
HIP 24180 AB 2: HMC, 36,199 Cr
HIP 116559 B 2: HMC+TC, 393,868 Cr
HIP 116559 B 1 (binary with the above): ELW, 663,915 Cr
Yum Kamcabi A 5: WW being terraformed (so TC?), 606,519 Cr

I think this could have been handled better. Terraforming candidates are considerably more frequent than Earth-like worlds, yet are again worth nearly the same amount of credits. It would have been better to have ELW-s at this rate and have the terraforming candidates at, say, double the pre-beta amount.

Yeah, ELW's should be in the 1m cr region, TFC in the 100k-200k range, I'd think...

Z...

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As I wrote in the next sentence after the one you quoted from me, "We could go over about the specifics more, but it's the basic principle that's wrong here. Explorer mods shouldn't require combat unlocks, combat mods shouldn't require explorer outlocks, and so on. But, unfortunately, right now they do."
Reaching Dangerous rank in an FdL (even stock, let alone an engineered one) is easy and just a matter of time, but that still shouldn't be the requirement, as it rewards combat ranking with explorer mods. That's just bad game design. So what you quoted really wasn't my main point.

My bad for skimming (having dinner, drinking beer and reading forums... probably should remove one of those from the equation), and yes, totally agree there.

Z...

 

[Allitnil]

Reaching Dangerous rank in an FdL (even stock, let alone an engineered one) is easy and just a matter of time

Can you give a realistic indication of just how much time it should take? Because even with a reasonably engineered Python it seems to take me hours of mind-numbingly boring shooting NPCs just to progress by a percent or two through Expert. I did try a FDL but it wasn't any better. I know I'm not doing it anything like optimally (and I refuse to put myself in a position where I might expect to lose a ship), but even so it feels like it would take me weeks of doing nothing else to get through Master.

 

[Qohen Leth]

Not mentionning the time it takes to get to the FDL and outfit it!

 

[Jackie Silver]

Can you give a realistic indication of just how much time it should take? Because even with a reasonably engineered Python it seems to take me hours of mind-numbingly boring shooting NPCs just to progress by a percent or two through Expert. I did try a FDL but it wasn't any better. I know I'm not doing it anything like optimally (and I refuse to put myself in a position where I might expect to lose a ship), but even so it feels like it would take me weeks of doing nothing else to get through Master.

I forget about Dangerous, but from Deadly to Elite I was progressing - I wasn't pushing for it - a few % points each day from an hour or two blatting away in High-Intensity CZ, so I would expect maybe a week's worth of the same would get you to Dangerous.

Choosing your targets may help as you need to be in a place where your opponents are at or above your own ranking to really progress. If you're ranked Expert and you're regularly defeating Elite NPCs, you'll gain much more rank than by destroying Harmless ones, and so on.

(edited to add)

I don't have much of an opinion on the gating of Engineers and so on, although requiring specific Power allegiances is a little problematic; the thing that caused me most bother initially was the requirement to mine a bazillion tons of rocks for Selene Jean, because before that point I'd barely touched mining - that said, I ended up enjoying it. But like with most things in Elite, there are few evident checks for allegiance; you can always do some pretend make-work for the Feds or whoever while really being an ardent supporter of their enemies, and no-one will check or care. *shrugs*

WRT other changes, the Dolphin seems like a very respectable middle-range exploration ship - I love fast and stylish ships. Really needs some paint jobs though! Damage from flying through volcanic vents is a good thing. Looking forward to visiting far-flung asteroid spots and mega ships too. Scanners good, all seems generally positive.

 

[Jackie Silver]

One thing - I find my choice of exploration ship now slightly restricted by the desire for one with a cabin that can seat at least two CMDRs side by side, so that I'll be able to take pictures with a co-pilot. That is, unlike the Asp where the co-pilot is sat underneath.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Has anyone with beta access checked out ice planets? According to the changelog there is an improvement, and I hope the fix addresses the excessive tiling.

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I don't have much of an opinion on the gating of Engineers and so on, although requiring specific Power allegiances is a little problematic; the thing that caused me most bother initially was the requirement to mine a bazillion tons of rocks for Selene Jean, because before that point I'd barely touched mining - that said, I ended up enjoying it. But like with most things in Elite, there are few evident checks for allegiance; you can always do some pretend make-work for the Feds or whoever while really being an ardent supporter of their enemies, and no-one will check or care. *shrugs*.

The way I see it, the Engineers is the Elite playthrough/story mode.
I for one enjoy that I have to try all aspects of the game.