Resolving the Griefer Issues

[Franc Kaos]

Written in Reddit but appropriate here I think:
A question.
If E is supposed to be a simulator of space travel and living in that world, why do you think that pirates / griefers (whatever) should have a consequence free life for their actions? Why does suicide thru Sidewinder absolve the pilot of all their crimes? Wouldn't it make the game better if they had to hide out in Anarchy systems, having a whole economy built around that life, making forays into Medium-Sec systems looking for low hanging fruit, CGs to attack other CGs delivering goods, watching out for bounty hunters (both player and NPC), basically having gameplay that reflect that lifestyle?

The problem I think is:
I hate to say this but I think someone fairly high up in Fdev is a filthy griefer because otherwise the sensible solutions posted here and elsewhere would've been implemented years ago.

The only difference between HiSec and Anarchy in this game is you can pew pew with impunity in Anarchy systems and in HiSec you might get a System Authority ship turn up five minutes after being interdicted (usually just in time to fly across your lasers and turn on you even tho' you're fully allied with the system).

And random thought:
Also, selling itself as an Multiplayer Online game, give us at least one alt allowance. Since we can't just save a game and try doing something radically different / stupid, and CQC is dead (or at best dying), without having alternative avatars we're pretty much locked into one boring play style (unless you're a dev, I'm guessing, and can have multiple free accounts).

 

[Lateralus]

The only difference between HiSec and Anarchy in this game is you can pew pew with impunity in Anarchy systems and in HiSec you might get a System Authority ship turn up five minutes after being interdicted (usually just in time to fly across your lasers and turn on you even tho' you're fully allied with the system)

Police response time in high-security systems is in seconds, low-sec is about 5 minutes.

 

[Arindor]

Sounds like a right faff OP. I'll stick to solo. Just NPC griefers there!

 

[Red Dirt Nurse]

With thousands of posts over a number of years about dealing with griefers with no real solutions why don't we take it to the next level?

There's no solution, because there's no problem.

The term 'griefer' is so subjective - it's one of those "eye of the beholder" things. IMHO there are no griefers in ED. There are, however, an abundance of people who get butt-hurt because they have a perception that they've somehow been affronted.

Feel like you've been hard-done-by? Report the offending player. Otherwise, get over it.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Just the solution everyone needs. An overpowered skilless cheating morel busybody going judge dredd on anyone accused of being a greifer. Remember to punch anyone you're told is a (member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party), friends!

Hey! I resemble that remark....

 

[StiTch]

It seems to me that Frontier's enduring vision is of a fragmented, cold, lonely Galaxy in which the only defender you can truly rely upon is yourself.

I don't believe that Frontier will ever pollute that core vision by providing us with magic guardian angels. Not because they can't but because they don't want to.

Now that might be a little dramatic. Remember ED is "in development" and FD have shown eagerness towards the Karma system/updated CP in general.

But for everyone that wants CP fixed there's another two that want missions fixed, or this or that bug, or want the station hologram to align in SC (congrats folks, seriously) - and it's not been detailed as being on the agenda thus far.

Looks like it falls on me to have positivity that FD will pull it out the proverbial hat, and silence an otherwise rowdy crowd of armchair developers. That said, you're 100% spot on about not needing "guardian angels". That would be the tipping point for ED becoming a total joke.

 

[Hooplah]

Great posts so far and seriously talking about the topic. Let's keep this up. This is what the Forum should be versus emotional responses. I'm for invincible Moderator ships mostly because no other solution has been implemented. The only edition the Devs ever did was to have a 15 second delay in combat before one can logout of the instance if ones desires to do that. Otherwise every thing goes. But being a Trader in Open where the latest greatest engineered weapons can take out a ship in 10 seconds does not promote a popularity with meeting and greeting players. Maybe a few Moderators taking out these gieifers would be a temporary solution. While the griefers attack ships per a popular system at the moment they will also have to deal with losing their ship when a Moderator shows up. I am not talking about general game play. I am talking about moments where we all come together and the griefers take advantage of it.

 

[AutoMechancal]

Is this another one of those my solution is the best because no one's else has been picked threads?

Pretty sure the devs just point and laugh at all the tantrum throwing that happens when someone sees a rebuy screen for the first time in over a year because of a miss click.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

But being a Trader in Open where the latest greatest engineered weapons can take out a ship in 10 seconds

If I may direct you to that instructional video called "The Git Gud Guide To Trading In Open" if you haven't already seen it:
[video=youtube;Uh9AWV_BWo0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9AWV_BWo0[/video]

 

[StiTch]

I'm for invincible Moderator ships mostly because no other solution has been implemented. The only edition the Devs ever did was to have a 15 second delay in combat before one can logout of the instance if ones desires to do that. ...... But being a Trader in Open where the latest greatest engineered weapons can take out a ship in 10 seconds does not promote a popularity with meeting and greeting players.

Oh chill your beans.

The only reason Open is perceived as a gankfest is because of threads like this.

It's 100% possible to escape from an engineered attacker and it's ridiculous to panic as though FD have thrown in the towel on being reasonable. They do however have a forum's worth of armchair developers telling them to work on different things. If you look at previous discussion on the topic they're eager to get it done right, and while I have zero intention to rush them I'd be glad to see it happen so we can hack down a few high horses and with any luck stop suggestions such as flying moderators banning random combatants.

It's worth noting the last time we had some thoughts from FD on the matter they proposed a karma-style system, and for months ever since that every other CP suggestion has been a rehash of the karma concept with varying choices of punishments for gankers. It's almost like FD actually know what they're doing

 

[Bortas]

If I may direct you to that instructional video if you haven't already seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9AWV_BWo0

Watching, understanding and implementing this is indeed more helpful for resolving the "griefer issues" as any suggestion about how to punish "griefers" I've seen in this forum so far. Grief the "griefers" by legitly denying them their kill.

 

[AutoMechancal]

Watching, understanding and implementing this is indeed more helpful for resolving the "griefer issues" as any suggestion about how to punish "griefers" I've seen in this forum so far. Grief the "griefers" by legitly denying them their kill.

It's almost as if getting better at the game will help resolve the issue.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Just the solution everyone needs. An overpowered skilless cheating morel busybody going judge dredd on anyone accused of being a greifer.

Oh stop it! I'm getting excited here!

 

[Hooplah]

Is this another one of those my solution is the best because no one's else has been picked threads?

Pretty sure the devs just point and laugh at all the tantrum throwing that happens when someone sees a rebuy screen for the first time in over a year because of a miss click.

It is not a solution. It is a suggestion. The Devs are not going to do anything about the issues. You know that as well as I do because they cannot fix the issues for every player. But maybe if we give them a player solution they don't have to program into the game they will go for it. Who knows...They can always say NO.

 

[DaveB]

I honestly don't see the "griefer problem" as quite as severe as it is often portrayed. I've had folks coming after my ship for no reason that I can discern but that doesn't mean the cmdr behind that hollow blip doesn't have one that's perfectly valid in game terms. I'm sure one or two of 'em might have been thinking along the lines of "I'm going to blow you up because you don't stand a chance and I can make you all salty about your rebuy screen" but I'm perfectly willing to give the majority of 'em the benefit of the doubt. For the most part they all discovered that they couldn't blow me up anyway. A few got an unpleasant surprise in the process but mostly they got to sit there and grind their teeth watching me scarper, mostly unscathed.

I do see a definite value in some sort of karma system, where your actions in the ED universe do indeed carry long-term consequences that can come back to bite you in the future. However, I view that as a necessary element of depth that needs to be added to the game universe rather than an "anti-griefing" thing. It may well be that "manned" ships with greater capabilities than the rest of us can fly could be a part of that and - provided their "rules" are well defined and they never break them - it would be interesting to see if FD could work an element like that into the larger scheme of things. What I very much don't think would work is for them to be some kind of anti griefer patrol. If antisocial actions within the game carry the right kind of consequences anyway then the already small "griefer problem" will go away on its own. The lulzbunnies do what they do because the consequences to their victims are way out of proportion to any kind of repercussion. Change that state and it won't stop them killing folks, nothing will, but it will require more thought about whether or not it's worth it.

 

[Kyokushin]

There are 400 bln of systems, around 80 griefers, located on both hemispheres in different timezones, and everyday at evening hours few of them are active in two systems, like CG or Founder.

Inf fact, there is no griefers so there is no issue.

There is community who is terrified by a monster in a shadow. Turn of the light.

 

[StiTch]

I honestly don't see the "griefer problem" as quite as severe as it is often portrayed. I've had folks coming after my ship for no reason that I can discern but that doesn't mean the cmdr behind that hollow blip doesn't have one that's perfectly valid in game terms. I'm sure one or two of 'em might have been thinking along the lines of "I'm going to blow you up because you don't stand a chance and I can make you all salty about your rebuy screen" but I'm perfectly willing to give the majority of 'em the benefit of the doubt. For the most part they all discovered that they couldn't blow me up anyway. A few got an unpleasant surprise in the process but mostly they got to sit there and grind their teeth watching me scarper, mostly unscathed.

I do see a definite value in some sort of karma system, where your actions in the ED universe do indeed carry long-term consequences that can come back to bite you in the future. However, I view that as a necessary element of depth that needs to be added to the game universe rather than an "anti-griefing" thing. It may well be that "manned" ships with greater capabilities than the rest of us can fly could be a part of that and - provided their "rules" are well defined and they never break them - it would be interesting to see if FD could work an element like that into the larger scheme of things. What I very much don't think would work is for them to be some kind of anti griefer patrol. If antisocial actions within the game carry the right kind of consequences anyway then the already small "griefer problem" will go away on its own. The lulzbunnies do what they do because the consequences to their victims are way out of proportion to any kind of repercussion. Change that state and it won't stop them killing folks, nothing will, but it will require more thought about whether or not it's worth it.

Spoiler

 

[grumpsalot]

A PvP/PvE flag would resolve all griefing issues. Works *just fine* in other more fully developed MMO's.

Griefers still get to grief leaving the adults to do their thing.

 

[StarfireIX]

Greetings,

With thousands of posts over a number of years about dealing with griefers with no real solutions why don't we take it to the next level?

We are on a Forum. We have Moderators. From what I have seen they cannot remove a post (or maybe they can but choose not to) but can move posts to the appropriate sub forum and close them when appropriate.

Maybe we should have Moderators in the game as well. They cannot change the status of a player's account but will be flying around in Imperial Couriers with unlimited shielding and massive weapons only the top three ships have access to. In FE2 I had an Eagle with a Plasma Accelerator and a 3000LY jump range. Easy to do in ED. Thus when griefers are identified in a system they are going to have serious issues when the Moderators show up. Community Goals are different but new players getting killed just starting the game or those moments as in the current Beta 2.3 testing when many greifers take advantage of live players they will meet the Moderators.

There is no solution between PvE and PvP. Frontier maybe missed this point. There are different approaches to the game and will always be in conflict. So if we nerf the balance towards PvP maybe Moderators with serious ships could make a difference. Nothing else has worked so far.

Just an idea. Discuss/debate it but if it turns into a yelling fest like so many posts do then I'll ask a Moderator to close it. I do wish when a few people arguing back and forth add so many posts one has to wade through versus intelligent discussion the Moderators could help. But I figure that they are limited. I feel your frustration!

Regards

Here's an idea!

Click self-destuct.

 

[Kyokushin]

A PvP/PvE flag would resolve all griefing issues. Works *just fine* in other more fully developed MMO's.

Griefers still get to grief leaving the adults to do their thing.

No.
Its the worst idea ever.
Let imagine a folks who will be able to taunt other who will have pvp flag off.
Welcome to ultimate troll world