General / Off-Topic Globalization Vs. Nationalism

[Arry]

They are both political buzz words of the current times. Both used to inspire the masses to take part and support such ideals, or ideologies.

30 to 40 years ago Nationalism was a dirty word, because it was equated with the fascists etc.. At the same time most humans needed 'safety in numbers', with such things as NATO and the Soviet Pact. Along with the boom of travel with the coming of the jet age, they could put themselves anywhere on the planet, with ease. So the world slipped into globalisation.

However: Both these rallying calls and that is all they are, these are just buzz words to collect votes.

The Nationalists will claim that they are there for THEIR OWN people and will place the blame the nations problems and woes, on Jonny foreigner. It could be that they are coming and taking all the jobs or undermining our products by making cheaper and of course, inferior goods. They use words and phrases like patriotism and looking after our own, but in truth, like most politicians; they just seek power over others.

The Globalists have the same agenda, power, money and control. The problem is in reality, no one can stop globalisation, it is already here, ingrained and a part of the system we all live in. Corporations and big business have been doing things this way for decades and national governments have no choice, but to stay on-board or become isolated. Again, in reality; no government is going to say no to cheap labour, or basic resources and even manufactured goods. Globalism is here to stay and those selling it will offer, cheaper living standards and goods and the world being your oyster, an unlimited market place. Which of course, just like those impressed by the Nationalists; to the common people, the cleaners, the drivers, the labours and the millions of normal, just about managing people from which ever nation, this all sounds good, but at the end of the day, worth nothing to them.

Being a nationalist these days is a sensible policy if you want to win elections, because there are a lot of those common people, feeling left out, cast aside and dispossessed. There are millions of them in most nations today, because in spite of all the promises, globalisation does leave people behind and dose kill jobs on a national scale, but at the same time nationalists, cannot keep their promises. It is impossible for them to do so, because financial status quo is too well established and the general day to day running of the planet and most nations are dependent on this global market place and resources.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Nationalism is not a bad thing, I always like it instead of globalisme. Many people think of fascism when Nationalism is mentioned, but that is really not the case.

Basically it's about taking care of your own first before anyone else. If a member of your household need help you would also help them first instead of the neighbor I guess.

Nationalism is not right nor is it left on the political spectrum, it's about your nation first and foremost.

The sad thing is that if people would band together globally, we'd all benefit. But we know thats not going to happen, and we dont want to be the one left with the short-straw. As an expat it would be silly for me to support pure nationalism: many of my friends and family are Dutch, but many other friends and some family (either direct and via my Belgian girlfriend) are from Belgium. A good friend lives in Canada, and there is an excellent chance he'll bring me over for a job in the near future. Maybe its different if you're from the States for example, where most of your friends and family would be easily categorized as being from the same nation, but for me thats not really true. So its not 'my household versus the neighbours', because my household and neighbours kinda intermingle.

 

[Minonian]

Anyone who left out globalisation, and global trading becoming a loser is that simple. National interests, national pride, national traits not necessary to give in, but globalistaion is cannot be swiped aside, if you are in your right mind. To trade, and move is our interests. The funny thing is? As america head and governing policy changes so as a lot of other things around the world. Under obama the mainstream was environmentalism, and LMBTQ, what he did and the rest of the world tired to resist. And also globalistaion. So nancyes grew stronger. Now we have a republican, the whole thing turns upside down. LMBTQ globalistaion, and environmentalism will be gaining power and support to nationalism anti global movements tin foil hatters going down.

And this was Putin's final miscalculation. he did not taken account what does really means to oppose America. that's means to ALWAYS oppose america, whatever he does. What means whomever thinks he can follow the direction before Tumph elections and can gain from it, going to be disappointed.

The thing is? It's time to turn coat, but keep doing the same. means? Oppose / support America. Because right now, either the sides going to change, or the parties mentality.

Tick - tock the pendulum moved to the other side.

 

[Spook]

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

Charles de Gaulle

 

[beelbeebub]

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

Charles de Gaulle

good quote, but it does beg the question who are "my people"?

I may have more in common in terms of outlook and interests with someone from Germany, Kenya or Iran than someone from the UK

do I support someone who i have little in common with other than we were born in the same country over someone who may have been born in the other side of the world but who I have much in common with?

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

I'm a lefty liberal star trek fan, i wish we could all unite in a United federation where money does not need to exist and food and energy and religious concerns are no more, ethnicity never enters my mind, we are all human, however since the human race is not in that position yet, and may never be, i am a proud Welsh and British unionist, allthough i wish we could all be proud British unionists (those of us who are Brits) within a reformed EU. So i guess i'm against what is a negative nationalism and against what is currently a careless globalization. Edit: so i'm a patriot, but not a nationalist, i don't like nationalism at all, as for globalization, it's the necessary progress, but far from perfect with things the way they are.

 

[FuzzySpider]

good quote, but it does beg the question who are "my people"?

I may have more in common in terms of outlook and interests with someone from Germany, Kenya or Iran than someone from the UK

do I support someone who i have little in common with other than we were born in the same country over someone who may have been born in the other side of the world but who I have much in common with?

Who should I support? Someone who I agree with, someone who shares my geographical point of origin, or someone who actually needs my support?

 

[hobblygobbly]

Nationalism is rooted in ethnic hostilities and racism. Nationalism is not loving your country, that is patriotism.

Nationalism is linking ETHNIC IDENTITY TO NATIONAL IDENTITY, meaning that x country is ONLY for y ethnicity, and that any other ethnicity THREATENS the culture and integrity of the deemed y ethnicity for the country.

In other words, nationalism is about saying England for the English, Scotland for the Scots, Germans for the Germans, and so on. Nationalism says, you are not English if you are a Muslim or black etc, which is .

Nationalism is to socialism as fascism is to communism. Meaning, socialism is the stepping stone to achieving communism just like nationalism is the stepping stone to achieving fascism. Fascism doesn't exist without nationalism. Don't come with "Fascism and nationalism are different", it's not, nationalism is a prerequisite for fascism, it's a prelude to something worse, but it's just as bad. An infection is bad, left untreated, it gets much worse.

And just for those who say globalism is bad, you do realise all luxuries you enjoy are due to globalism? Globalism is a natural result from technological advancement. You think the world will progress in science and technology if all countries once agained turned to nationalism and inward?

All those that complain about globalism, you do know it helps your economy more than hurts it? Jobs falling away due to globalism is because of change in the world, just like how jobs changed when the world became more industralised, the public and private sector need solutions for disappearing jobs, because these jobs aren't needed any more, it's not the fault of progress that certain jobs fall away.

Also in certain jobs, they are kept alive due to globalism, classical instrument business in France is kept alive due to globalism and trade with China, because local french market no longer buys things like locally made accordions... but they sell very well overseas like China, keeping that industry alive.

Again, jobs falling away due to globalism is not the fault of globalism, just like jobs falling away due to industralisation. You cannot fault progress for that, fault public sector (government) and private sector for failing with solutions.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

Nationalism is rooted in ethnic hostilities and racism. Nationalism is not loving your country, that is patriotism.

Nationalism is linking ETHNIC IDENTITY TO NATIONAL IDENTITY, meaning that x country is ONLY for y ethnicity, and that any other ethnicity THREATENS the culture and integrity of the deemed y ethnicity for the country.

In other words, nationalism is about saying England for the English, Scotland for the Scots, Germans for the Germans, and so on. Nationalism says, you are not English if you are a Muslim or black etc, which is .

Nationalism is to socialism as fascism is to communism. Meaning, socialism is the stepping stone to achieving communism just like nationalism is the stepping stone to achieving fascism. Fascism doesn't exist without nationalism.

And just for those who say globalism is bad, you do realise all luxuries you enjoy are due to globalism? Globalism is a natural result from technological advancement. You think the world will progress in science and technology if all countries once agained turned to nationalism and inward?

All those that complain about globalism, you do know it helps your economy more than hurts it? Jobs falling away due to globalism is because of change in the world, just like how jobs changed when the world became more industralised, the public and private sector need solutions for disappearing jobs, because these jobs aren't needed any more, it's not the fault of progress that certain jobs fall away.

Also in certain jobs, they are kept alive due to globalism, classical instrument business in France is kept alive due to globalism and trade with China, because local french market no longer buys things like locally made accordions... but they sell very well overseas like China, keeping that industry alive.

Again, jobs falling away due to globalism is not the fault of globalism, just like jobs falling away due to industralisation. You cannot fault progress for that, fault public sector (government) and private sector for failing with solutions.

By the way, democratic socialism is not a stepping stone to communism, i know of many democratic socialists who would never wish for communism (myself included).

 

[beelbeebub]

By the way, democratic socialism is not a stepping stone to communism, i know of many democratic socialists who would never wish for communism (myself included).

yeah, a lot of Americans seem to conflate socialism and communism. there are many socialist countries in Europe that are pretty far from communist (and also beat the US in quality of life measures)

 

[Lianachan]

Nationalism is rooted in ethnic hostilities and racism. Nationalism is not loving your country, that is patriotism.

Nationalism is linking ETHNIC IDENTITY TO NATIONAL IDENTITY, meaning that x country is ONLY for y ethnicity, and that any other ethnicity THREATENS the culture and integrity of the deemed y ethnicity for the country.

In other words, nationalism is about saying England for the English, Scotland for the Scots, Germans for the Germans, and so on. Nationalism says, you are not English if you are a Muslim or black etc, which is .

Once again - there's more than one kind of nationalism! "Scotland for the Scots" is offensive drivel, and shows you don't actually know anything at all about Scottish nationalism.

 

[hobblygobbly]

By the way, democratic socialism is not a stepping stone to communism, i know of many democratic socialists who would never wish for communism (myself included).

I know difference between socialism, social-democracy and democratic socialism, but the latter ones were not the socialism I was referring to. I vote for a social-democracy party myself. I was just using the example that you cannot achieve communism without socialism just like you cannot achieve fascism without nationalism (I'm not equating them as ideology, but in how further ideology is achieved with prerequisites. I also know communism is not inherently bad, Marx's manifesto was not anti-democratic, communism that arised in the Eastern Bloc was not what was outlined in the communist manifesto).

yeah, a lot of Americans seem to conflate socialism and communism. there are many socialist countries in Europe that are pretty far from communist (and also beat the US in quality of life measures)

I'm not American and know the differences, my family used to live under it the Eastern Bloc during the Cold War. Some parts of my family members still vote for a communist platform party in Germany, while others don't and vehemently hate it.

Once again - there's more than one kind of nationalism! "Scotland for the Scots" is offensive drivel, and shows you don't actually know anything at all about Scottish nationalism.

I understand the current form of nationalism in Scotland isn't ethnic-nationalism, but my reference to that was was just using Scotland as one of the examples if ever there was ethnic nationalism, like saying Germans for Germans. I know nationalism in Scotland right now is not driven by religion or race, I should've used a different example to avoid confusion.

In general, nationalism defaults to ethnic-nationalism, which results in fascism, most of the world with nationalism rising right now is ethnic-nationalism but I agree that Scotland is not one of them. When one talks about other forms of nationalism one tends to be explicit because nationalism defaults to ethnic-nationalism when talking about nationalism. Again, I know Scotland for Scots is not ethnic nationalism, it was my fault adding it that way which resulted in confusion.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

Just making sure there was no confusion between democratic socialism and "democratic peoples republic of North Korea" type socialism.

 

[lysan]

Nationalism is rooted in ethnic hostilities and racism. Nationalism is not loving your country, that is patriotism.

Nationalism is linking ETHNIC IDENTITY TO NATIONAL IDENTITY, meaning that x country is ONLY for y ethnicity, and that any other ethnicity THREATENS the culture and integrity of the deemed y ethnicity for the country.

In other words, nationalism is about saying England for the English, Scotland for the Scots, Germans for the Germans, and so on. Nationalism says, you are not English if you are a Muslim or black etc, which is .

Nationalism is to socialism as fascism is to communism. Meaning, socialism is the stepping stone to achieving communism just like nationalism is the stepping stone to achieving fascism. Fascism doesn't exist without nationalism. Don't come with "Fascism and nationalism are different", it's not, nationalism is a prerequisite for fascism, it's a prelude to something worse, but it's just as bad. An infection is bad, left untreated, it gets much worse.

And just for those who say globalism is bad, you do realise all luxuries you enjoy are due to globalism? Globalism is a natural result from technological advancement. You think the world will progress in science and technology if all countries once agained turned to nationalism and inward?

All those that complain about globalism, you do know it helps your economy more than hurts it? Jobs falling away due to globalism is because of change in the world, just like how jobs changed when the world became more industralised, the public and private sector need solutions for disappearing jobs, because these jobs aren't needed any more, it's not the fault of progress that certain jobs fall away.

Also in certain jobs, they are kept alive due to globalism, classical instrument business in France is kept alive due to globalism and trade with China, because local french market no longer buys things like locally made accordions... but they sell very well overseas like China, keeping that industry alive.

Again, jobs falling away due to globalism is not the fault of globalism, just like jobs falling away due to industralisation. You cannot fault progress for that, fault public sector (government) and private sector for failing with solutions.

That is plain rubbish, please don't project your twisted world view on other people, I'm NOT a Racist and my own married proves that by 1000%

Nationalism is together with patriotism a way of showing your love for the country, the traditions and ways of living, has NOTHING to do with race at all.

 

[Minonian]

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

Charles de Gaulle

That's right. Nationalism is hatred toward everyone else in the mask of love your own nation. That's what le pen doing, alongside with a lot of brexiters.

 

[verminstar]

I think theres some confusion as to what nationalism means to some...to me its the enemy. The IRA in northern ireland were staunchly nationalist as are all the republican parties...they are not what I support at all as they have little respect fer different cultures within their own borders.

Globalization...I view this as a buzzword used by the establishment to justify their financial decisions...Ill fight against that till my last breath because I hate the establishment with a passion. I ddnt see globalization as a good thing...why would I want to be united with a world full of people who I dont feel any connection with? Not to mention the part where this is not only a united ireland, which I have opposed my entire life and still strongly oppose, but a united planet?

Just no...I fear it would cause far more problems than it would solve...apart from the establishment who are in it to make profit...their ambitions are clear and they care little fer anyone else but themselves. The little people are nothing more than human resources to them...why would I want them in charge?

 

[Boomer Kay]

That is plain rubbish, please don't project your twisted world view on other people, I'm NOT a Racist and my own married proves that by 1000%

Nationalism is together with patriotism a way of showing your love for the country, the traditions and ways of living, has NOTHING to do with race at all.

Yea.
Except there's no such thing as country traditions, country landscape, country ways of living.
Nowhere.
Not a single of the 40+ countries I've visited so far had one of those things past certain stereotypes which are more prominent abroad than in the country itself.

Edit: Haven't been to Monaco yet, so it could be that all of them live the Arch Duke Lifestyle, but even something as tiny and conservative as Switzerland is basically an assembly of rather distinct valley dwelling populations who can't agree on one common language and one of who's most successfull 'cultural' exports (in addition to tax evasion) is the story of the mountain dwelling ways of living, which is a minority in the valley dominated majority (Heidi).

 

[m0rl0ck]

I dont understand the either/or mentality, both are fine in their sphere. For instance basic human rights, health and reasonable security are a global issue. How a nation chooses to use its natural resources, for the benefit of its citizens, or its form of government, is a national issue.

Everybody just seems mostly interested in setting up a field where opposition can be expressed.

 

[Minonian]

.why would I want to be united with a world full of people who I dont feel any connection with?

Such as our darkest part of nature... The rest of it? Just the ideology you created around it.

We are loners. And we like to be, want to be! But the truth is? Community is power, and not weakness. And the bigger are? The stronger it gets. You just unlike me, not admit this! Instead based on our somewhat socially screwed nature you only seeing the problems what can create to us.

 

[Adept]

Nationalism is rooted in ethnic hostilities and racism. Nationalism is not loving your country, that is patriotism.

This.

Fuzzy, I'd like to point out piece of the puzzle regarding Lysander which you seem to have forgotten. For all his zeal about nationalism and England, he lives abroad and doesn't intend to go back. To me that's hilariously hypocritical, and underscores your point of enjoying all the fruits of a global world and the right to live where he chooses.

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By the way, democratic socialism is not a stepping stone to communism, i know of many democratic socialists who would never wish for communism (myself included).

Yes, that was a hilarious claim.

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yeah, a lot of Americans seem to conflate socialism and communism. there are many socialist countries in Europe that are pretty far from communist (and also beat the US in quality of life measures)

Sweden beats the US by pretty much every metric, and they're ruled by social democrats most of the time.