Resolving the Griefer Issues

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

I see just as many salty threads about combat loggers as I do 'griefers.'

Both sides have plenty of people that cry when they don't get their way. I think it evens out and is amusing, especially when you couldn't give a sh__ about either sides case and you just carry on playing

This post is falsely assuming that only victims combat log and only when they're being griefed. Completly wrong. Combat logging is, first of all, a bane of bounty hunting, piracy and powerplay, even though attacking people because of those reasons is completly legit. Getting rid of combat logging is in the interest of anybody who does PVP, not just the "greefurz".

 

[NeilF]

BRAVO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Terrific Idea Good Man !!!

**CLICK FOR TEXT WALL!**

Spoiler

Also give these moderators the ability to stun the offenders ship with UBER EMP-Pulse weapons, knocking them out... Then in Real time on screen for all to see in the same system as the griefer, the authority ship will have all ships the griefer owns flown into the system (immediately so they arrive in 10 seconds) First #1. All of the Griefers other ships will be held in position in front of the griefer. any local players will be invited to destroy the ships owned by the griefer, as the griefer sits and watches helplessly, secondly #2. the entire balance of the griefers account will be drained and transferred into the account of the people they have attacked evenly. The Griefer will no longer be able to purchase weapons of any type for one month, and will be given a Hauler, a type 3, or a type 6 for 2 months. This will train them to practice Service to other, and nothing else until it maybe just occurs to them that they can do some other things with their time than wrecking the efforts of others. Frankly Entire civilizations have repeatedly been destroyed with horrific and utterly pathetic losses of life. In the real world, these griefers amount to Mass murderers, Pedophiles, and human trafficker. Their genetic disposition serves no purpose to any type of civilization. Why on any level of sentient thought, would Frontier want any person to develop their potential to emulate such a degenerate path of actualization of a persons life. At all time any individuals or groups choice to follow such a path is wholly unconscionable. Furthermore FRONTIER has a true and direct responsibility to reprogram all of the ARCHON's facilities and station to be fully destructible. Also any facilities that support the process of human trafficking should be made to those destructible design spec too. Train this generation and the next to nip EVIL in it's True Forms IN THE BUD. The reality of real Pirating is horrific, and any human being who think killing/enslaving makes for a validatable way of life, in reality needs to be clearly informed, that such actions directly mark them as a good choice for Genetic identification and elimination. Similarly, those who help eliminate such horrors should be invited to receive regular invitation to Gene-Pool Contribution Activities, and special weaponry access like ion polarized Plasma canons which fire powerful shots that auto track via polar opposition charging, and these will feature tracking ability once fired that no amount of maneuvering can evade... Miss use will cause immediate deactivation of weapon which will self eject off ship and then an NPC will swing by and collect it... Indeed Elite Dangerous can help effectively teach a long over due set of ETHICS RULES ! Rules which have for far too long been verbally masturbated out of our schools by the most filthy maggot infested pedophile of any society. How they lecherous predators ever get into our public service position's & committee's in the first place is in need it's self for a long overdue full scale revue, and with a very serious set of conditions for those who are identified as child predators, and especial as those who intentionally try to implant their mental illnesses into our children's minds. Satanist's for one come to mind. Those people practice Deceit as a virtue, and have been caught practicing real human trafficking and even sacrifice of living children. That Good People Do Nothing ! That is all that is required for the complete domination of all humankind by Evil... Unfortunately, we do have many among us who factually are foolish enough to believe that full-scale Satanic Ritual is Harmless. Which I ask you is worse ? The Fool, or the Heard of Fools Following the Fool wholeheartedly... Which I ask You ? In addition to all this Give special Rank markings and really excellent paint jobs for the Griefer Removal Squads, and allow Players to earn the right to join the Frontier Employee's and fly with them, using the UBER weapons and Paint jobs as well as cool markings... Also Pirate Hunters should be Earning this right... Finally Allow Pirate Hunters and Griefer Hunters to buy all Engineering supplies and upgrades at any space station that repairs and outfits ships... ANY Station, not just Engineers. Do this, and Griefers will become Extinct, and Those they once laughed at while causing so much harm, will now laugh Hardily Back At Them, and Truly Have, "The Last Laugh !"

Anyone got a sledge hammer?

Sorry I just can't deal with that in one huge lump?

 

[mp4x]

No, it doesn't.

This post is falsely assuming that only victims combat log and only when they're being griefed. Completly wrong. Combat logging is, first of all, a bane of bounty hunting, piracy and powerplay, even though attacking people because of those reasons is completly legit.

 

[NeilF]

Shooting spaceships in a sandbox spaceship shooting game is now bullying and online harassment? Huh, I guess I didn't get that memo.

The rest of your post perfectly describes the type of player that you are:

• You got interdicted by a larger ship. Happens all the time.

• You felt it necessary to mention what you're armed with, when it's completely irrelevant if you actually intend to escape from someone. Being less-armed doesn't earn you any sympathy points.

• You lost the interdiction instead of submitting straight away, which gives your FSD an insanely long cooldown that prevents you from escaping. Gankers love it when people fail their interdictions for this reason.

• You didn't fly evasively at all. If you'd repeatedly boosted at the cutter and passed over it, deploying chaff whenever you were both at the apex of your turns, you likely would have survived the long FSD cooldown. Cutters turn like pigs and are forced to use gimbals due to their bad hardpoint convergence.

• You didn't even consider highwaking as an option, but rather opted to sit still and give your interdictor a free kill. Likely also to give yourself another sob story to write on the forums.

• You then felt it necessary to call the other player's actions "bullying and online harassment" when he played 100% by the rules of the game.

• You then decided to write up your story of voluntary failure through a series of newbie mistakes on the forums with the intent of getting sympathy points.

Basically you just need to learn how to play the game properly (understanding how to submit/fly evasive/highwake), know your enemy and exploit their weaknesses (horrible pitch + gimbals in this case), grow some situational awareness (resolve targets and don't get interdicted in the first place), stop taking someone's actions in a sandbox video game so seriously (bullying and harassment, seriously?), stop blaming other people for your own shortcomings, stop crying, and git gud.

That's all very good advice...

But it's a shame just a modicum of that attention isn't levelled at the ethos of how beneficial it is to the game for individuals (alone or in dedicated wings) in dedicated combat ships to habitually interdict other CMDRs, not in anyway interested at the time in a fight, let along capable of putting up a fight, simply to instantly open fire and destroy them most likely for no ingame purpose or reason

ie: We know that with a couple of techniques you can evade mindless interdiction, but it is not 100% effective, and to simply keep quoting the mantra of "evading mindless destruction" is somehow best place the game can end up seems odd to me.

So I'll repeat my opinion of where I believe the better place the game can end up:-
- Mindless "illegal" destruction is penalised if you do it too much. You habitually act like a psycho? You get treated like a psycho!
- Piracy is given some attention and depth.
- The game actually offers some logical, interesting legal PvP for CMDRs to engage in.

I'll take that "go to position" over, put up with the fact the game's PvP hasn't progressed in 2+ years, and just "get good" at running away from toxic behaviour in it.

It just seems sad the community has seemingly got so use to what OPEN is after two years of little or no progress, that now it's just the done thing to accept that's all it can/should be

 

[Jore'el]

PVP-On
PVP-Off

Simple option, I would like to play in Open but don't have the time or credit's to outfit a combat ship. A lot of Online game's have this feature, surely FD can implement it.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I'll take that "go to position" over, put up with the fact the game's PvP hasn't progressed in 2+ years, and just "get good" at running away from toxic behaviour in it.
It just seems sad the community has seemingly got so use to what OPEN is after two years of little or no progress, that now it's just the done thing to accept that's all it can/should be

Then instead of finding over how we can "punish" the other side, we should focus on "how to make PvP gameplay interesting and viable for all playstyles". The so called "Crime and Punishment System" which is lauded on this forums falls short on anything but the "punishment" part. And I want crime to be PROFITABLE. I want to be able to build grim reputation throughout the galaxy AND playerbase. So if you see StarLightPL^* on the scanner you will reconsider highwaking before interdiction, or, if you happen to be in a PvP equipped ship YOU WILL INTERDICT ME hoping for a really juicy bounty. AND at the same time, I want all possible benefits for lawful commanders. So in general, I want consequences for action and stable roleplaying.

* - I'm not really like that, I always end up with "Jesus" karma status in fallout 3 ;-)

 

[Aldric]

PVP-On
PVP-Off

Simple option, I would like to play in Open but don't have the time or credit's to outfit a combat ship. A lot of Online game's have this feature, surely FD can implement it.

I suggested this a very long time ago, no response from FD at all. I always fly in open, if pvp comes i deal with it, i like the tension of possible pvp myself but completely understand that most people dont want the bother of pvp, thats why this pvp flag on/off would have been such a great idea as long as when the pvp flag is switched on then switched off there is a timer of 30 minutes where the flag turns off after that time, if not some people would switch the flag off
if they are about to lose.

 

[NeilF]

Then instead of finding over how we can "punish" the other side, we should focus on "how to make PvP gameplay interesting and viable for all playstyles". The so called "Crime and Punishment System" which is lauded on this forums falls short on anything but the "punishment" part. And I want crime to be PROFITABLE. I want to be able to build grim reputation throughout the galaxy AND playerbase. So if you see StarLightPL^* on the scanner you will reconsider highwaking before interdiction, or, if you happen to be in a PvP equipped ship YOU WILL INTERDICT ME hoping for a really juicy bounty. AND at the same time, I want all possible benefits for lawful commanders. So in general, I want consequences for action and stable roleplaying.

* - I'm not really like that, I always end up with "Jesus" karma status in fallout 3 ;-)

You mean something like this? - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Reputation-quot-and-quot-Risk-Hot-Spots-quot (Very much another cry for some sort of Karma come Criminal Reputation mechanic + some hopefully small improvements to try and create hot spots for PvP).

The suggestion is to allow some "mindless destruction", but if you carry on you'll then get penalised by what are hopefully a series of logical/sensible methods to diswade you from your psychotic behaviour.

ie: It does NOT intend to mean as a pirate you cannot destroy a victim. What it does do is to mean if you make a habit out of it, you'll get noticed, and logically shunned/penalised.

But IMHO what is even more important (and I believe like you are suggesting) is "legal" PvP actually being offered and orchestrated by the game say via specific CGs or PP tasks. I do find it odd that over two years into the game, in 2017, the game does so very very little to orchestrate meaningful PvP.


As for crime being profitable, I'm all up for that, and indeed the thread above is even suggesting piracy is given some TLC to try and promote that! But I don't see mindless destruction in anyway associated with "profit". It's either just mindless destruction or bad piracy.

PVP-On
PVP-Off

Simple option, I would like to play in Open but don't have the time or credit's to outfit a combat ship. A lot of Online game's have this feature, surely FD can implement it.

Because it splits a mode basically into two modes, and doesn't really address the core issue? ie: OPEN-PvP-ON remains in the current questionable state?

Surely better for OPEN to be given more sensible mechanics which diswade habitual mindless illegal destruction to reduce/rein it in, while also offering some actual interesting orchestrated legal PvP for those interested in it to utilise?

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I've read that before - it's good but its still one sided. This - in your opinion - psychotic behaviour which needs reigning in is a still a perfectly viable gameplay, whether someone considers it psychotic or not. A mafia boss doesn't earn respect by giving money to animal shelters, you know. It only needs to be countered by perks on the lawful side. Insurance bonuses, special offers, allies, this sort of thing.

If what you propose flies, then (by contrast and only for the sake of argument) I would like to have in game "Internal Revenue Service" which will start to sniff around in-game account balances and check if all profit they made is legal, and if their Cr/hr goes above preset limit, send authority ships to scan them if they are not carrying some illegal goods perhaps. If they dare to stay above set Cr limit, make some secret agent NPCs follow them in hunt for illegal income sources. Also, a combat logging police, as proposed in this very thread, making it harsh for people who combat log. Etc... Although I am not sure if I want to play Second Life in space.

 

[NeilF]

I've read that before - it's good but its still one sided. This - in your opinion - psychotic behaviour which needs reigning in is a still a perfectly viable gameplay, whether someone considers it psychotic or not. A mafia boss doesn't earn respect by giving money to animal shelters, you know. It only needs to be countered by perks on the lawful side. Insurance bonuses, special offers, allies, this sort of thing.

Yes... But isn't it illogical to assume that if an individual is habitually illegally destroying individuals CMDR after CMDR, that he may get noticed rather more than someone who does it less often? Is it illogical to assume that given such a situation, that they may not be welcome in some places and/or may encounter "special attention"?

And if the overall outcome is better for OPEN as a whole? Some folk may of course possibly argue someone should be free to seal club as many other CMDRs as regularly as they like. I'd argue while this may be great for the individual in question, it's not so great for the CMDRs at the club end... Far better IMHO the game gives the individual some fair and logical brackets to "play within" - ie: A tolerated amount of illegal destruction and plenty of orchestrated (interesting) legal PvP <--- Clearly something the game doesn't do at the moment!

I would love for Piracy to get some TLC such that it is more of a profession with its own reputation and scaled rewards. Indeed! In the thread I linked to, I even suggested a Pirate, once at a suitable level, could even get missions to "illegally" destroy Pilot Federation members (at specific locations) with no penalty as it would be "hushed up" by the mission giver, therefore given FD even some controls over the amount & location of chaos (illegal destruction) taking place in the game.

 

[Vorxian]

OP OP OP OP OP...

If what you're asking is if we'd like to see Robert Maynard turn up in a Farragut and slap the bejjezuz out of known griefers.. then..

 

[rennarda]

Um, thanks for the advice on evading interdictions but I know what I'm doing. There's no way a stock Dolphin is evading or out running an engineered cutter. My shields were down instantly.

Destroying a much less capable ship for no reason is bullying. The in-game punishment for this should be enough to deter the offender from repeat re-offending (as it would in real-life). I know for a fact that FD are investigating in-game crime and punishment to tackle this.

Suggestions on how to fix this:

* Make High Security systems very dangerous places for Wanted pirates to visit. This would create safe zones for those not wanting the PvP style of play, without explicitly preventing PvP. It would also make low security systems feel genuinely dangerous.

* Invalidate insurance for Wanted CMDRs. What insurance company insures illegal activity? Alternatively, make the insurance rebuy cost a lot higher, as the CMDR has to use less reputable insurance providers.

This would actually enhance the galaxy map, as you'd have to really take notice of the security level of systems, whether you're a PvP pirate or a PvE player. Powerplay could be more meaningful then, there's a real incentive to increase or decrease the security level in systems.

 

[Minonian]

Back to the op? Simple!

Kill em all. (devilishsmile)

 

[Kaybe]

I'm a firm advocate of fixing the crime and punishment system. But regarding the OP's suggestion ... HEEEEELL NO!

It's not Frontier's responsibility to go around policing players in game because they are taking advantage of the framework they themselves created. They need to change the framework so that the game and game universe punishes those types of players for repeat behaviour, not drain their coffers hiring people to fly around and discipline players.

 

[sewerratuk]

OP OP OP OP OP...

If what you're asking is if we'd like to see Robert Maynard turn up in a Farragut and slap the bejjezuz out of known griefers.. then..

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...umbs_up.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080823233621

Oh god no, it's bad enough on the forum, couldn't bear the self-righteousness in-game too

 

[DaveB]

Let's lose the "git gud" rubbish, shall we?

Because, wait for it... GRIEFERS AINT GUD!

Put your average "griefer" up against a decent PvP pilot (say, for example, let them try to sneak past somebody like Truesilver with a nice tempting bounty on their hide) and they'll be cacking their flightsuit about three milliseconds before they watch their ship turn into an expanding cloud of vapor and do not pass "Go", do not collect 200 credits, go straight to the rebuy screen (that is, of course, if they don't clog)

They grief because they cant hack it against pilots that DO "git gud" so they farm salt from easy kills instead and delude themselves that they are apex PvPers because of it while plenty of the traders or other PvE players they loudly deride as "carebears" just can't be bothered putting up with their nonsense and go elsewhere. The "griefers" should be grateful, because a lot of those "carebears" are likely good enough pilots it wouldn't turn out very well if their target equipped a multirole or combat ship and could be bothered to take 'em on.

The "real" apex PvPers aint griefers. They are likely to chat politely with a trader passing through rather than open fire. The trade ship isn't what they are looking for, it won't give them a decent challenge no matter how good its pilot may be. I've met a few of 'em in open and we talked, then said a courteous goodbye. At least two of you are regulars on these forums so you know whereof I speak.

 

[besieger]

Let's lose the "git gud" rubbish, shall we?

Because, wait for it... GRIEFERS AINT GUD!

Put your average "griefer" up against a decent PvP pilot (say, for example, let them try to sneak past somebody like Truesilver with a nice tempting bounty on their hide) and they'll be cacking their flightsuit about three milliseconds before they watch their ship turn into an expanding cloud of vapor and do not pass "Go", do not collect 200 credits, go straight to the rebuy screen (that is, of course, if they don't clog)

They grief because they cant hack it against pilots that DO "git gud" so they farm salt from easy kills instead and delude themselves that they are apex PvPers because of it while plenty of the traders or other PvE players they loudly deride as "carebears" just can't be bothered putting up with their nonsense and go elsewhere. The "griefers" should be grateful, because a lot of those "carebears" are likely good enough pilots it wouldn't turn out very well if their target equipped a multirole or combat ship and could be bothered to take 'em on.

The "real" apex PvPers aint griefers. They are likely to chat politely with a trader passing through rather than open fire. The trade ship isn't what they are looking for, it won't give them a decent challenge no matter how good its pilot may be. I've met a few of 'em in open and we talked, then said a courteous goodbye. At least two of you are regulars on these forums so you know whereof I speak.

Oh wow.... some of us "griefers" are very good at combat... even in trade ships.

 

[Wildthing]

Greetings,

With thousands of posts over a number of years about dealing with griefers with no real solutions why don't we take it to the next level?

We are on a Forum. We have Moderators. From what I have seen they cannot remove a post (or maybe they can but choose not to) but can move posts to the appropriate sub forum and close them when appropriate.

Maybe we should have Moderators in the game as well. They cannot change the status of a player's account but will be flying around in Imperial Couriers with unlimited shielding and massive weapons only the top three ships have access to. In FE2 I had an Eagle with a Plasma Accelerator and a 3000LY jump range. Easy to do in ED. Thus when griefers are identified in a system they are going to have serious issues when the Moderators show up. Community Goals are different but new players getting killed just starting the game or those moments as in the current Beta 2.3 testing when many greifers take advantage of live players they will meet the Moderators.

There is no solution between PvE and PvP. Frontier maybe missed this point. There are different approaches to the game and will always be in conflict. So if we nerf the balance towards PvP maybe Moderators with serious ships could make a difference. Nothing else has worked so far.

Just an idea. Discuss/debate it but if it turns into a yelling fest like so many posts do then I'll ask a Moderator to close it. I do wish when a few people arguing back and forth add so many posts one has to wade through versus intelligent discussion the Moderators could help. But I figure that they are limited. I feel your frustration!

Regards

Here are my 5cent.

I would be against Mods in Game but think FD would not want to stick the Money in to it for positions like that.

In the past i could chose a server suiting my playstyle in that Game.
If i wanted to PvP i would join that type of Server or chose a PvE Server.

If you want to play in Open here you only have one choice and thats to be forced to look over your shoulder all the time.
Due to that your forced to play PG or Solo if your not the pvp type of Player.
PG or Solo of course crunch you interaction possibility a lot.

So why not create a pvp and pve Server option.
In PvP you can attack anybody and about anything.
And in PvE of course you cant attack a player and if you shoot at a Player no damage is Dealt then.

Or.....

Make open have PvP Areas and the rest is PvE only.
Or the option that you can turn on PvP and if you dont you cant be harmed.

Then the "Griefer" problem would be solved in my eyes.


Fly safe all and have a nice Weekend o7

 

[Mattaka]

No.
Its the worst idea ever.
Let imagine a folks who will be able to taunt other who will have pvp flag off.
Welcome to ultimate troll world

No offence dude, but you need to go play some GTA 5 online. you'll soon change your tune about having a PVP off switch. GTA is the very definition of ganking/griefing.

Seriously though, to the OP and others, Open in ED is a sweet smelling bed of roses. All the people saying 'git gud' (even though I hate the term) are kinda right. In an open world where pre-pubescent zit popping teenagers jerk off at their glee of shamelessly murdering other players, you have to be prepared, aware and skilled in the game mechanics enough to get away. Its a hard thing to accept, especially after seeing a rebuy multiple times. But at the end of the day its not like you lost your account access or anything serious like you got hacked, you just got shot down in an open universe.
Don't complain if you can't hold your own or run. Get better. Learn the game, forget about the supposed threat.

Do all your trade runs and upgrades in private and when you're a big enough threat, come to open and the gankers will leave you alone because they'll see all that 6A rated gear you have and see that you're not an easy kill. No need to change anything.

 

[DaveB]

Oh wow.... some of us "griefers" are very good at combat... even in trade ships.

Yes, while most of the "cheap shot artists" are really not that good at all, some of you are. However, as an old martial artist I perhaps have a somewhat biased view of those that have taken the trouble to acquire real skill and then waste it by picking fights with opponents who are not anywhere close to their class. The ones who don't have the skill can perhaps be excused their behavior because they really don't have any other option. Why would somebody who is actually any good lower themselves to the level of vermin? To me, at least, that approach ranks way lower than those who can't do better. The kind of fighter I'd beat the heck out of and then kick out of my dojo if they didn't learn a better attitude.

It is important to have respect for your opponent. If you can't do that, all you will ever have is mere enemies, and no honor or respect in your "victories".