Does silent running actually work against NPC's?

[Deleted member 110222]

I do use it when taking illicit goods into a station. Haven't been scanned once.

But admittedly, I neglect to try it in combat against NPC's. Does it work against them in that regard?

 

[babelfisch]

Yes, but it's not very effective once they used Eyeball Mk 1.

 

[goemon]

yes, if you know how it works (auto-resolve distance, distance breaking lock etc)

Yes, but it's not very effective once they used Eyeball Mk 1.

that was patched out some time ago.

 

[Ceekay]

Tried combat a few times in a shieldless DBS (well under 20% heat) but once you start using weapons and maneuvering you need to be quick with heatsinks before the temperature starts climbing and once you're detected it's time to leg it if the targets bigger than a Cobra.

As to station entries apply speed!

 

[777Driver]

that was patched out some time ago.

It wasn't completely patched out, just toned down a bit in the last big update. NPC's should defintely be using the MK I eyeball, would be strange if the devs completely removed visual tracking.

 

[Achilles7]

yes, if you know how it works (auto-resolve distance, distance breaking lock etc)

Yes, but it's not very effective once they used Eyeball Mk 1.

No it doesn't work...advocates always cite circumstantial anecdotal evidence! ie I hit SR & the AI didn't notice me! That's not proof! Additionally, the 'eyeballing' explanation is expediency by those seeking to back up their argument that the AI don't cheat in relation to SR.

I came up with a test scenario some time ago - I'll try to find it & upload it to YT.

 

[Lightspeed]

Tracking NPCs at RES sites, waiting for law enforcement to open up on them so I can "assist" with the bounty, I have noticed this (more than a couple of time):

An enforcement NPC faces a wanted NPC in order to start a scan.

Presumably before the NPC starts a scan (I don't know, but I assume it hasn't), the wanted NPC becomes invisible to my scanner. I am guessing he goes "silent running" and drops a heatsink. He then reappears behind the enforcement NPC and continues on his merry way. So somehow he has moved from in front of the enforcement NPC to the back without it being detected.

The question is, how does he do it, and what triggers the action? If a "scan detected" triggers it, then it must be with lightning reaction to go silent. But also, this means it is not being tracked visually.

 

[babelfisch]

No it doesn't work...advocates always cite circumstantial anecdotal evidence! ie I hit SR & the AI didn't notice me! That's not proof! Additionally, the 'eyeballing' explanation is expediency by those seeking to back up their argument that the AI don't cheat in relation to SR.

I came up with a test scenario some time ago - I'll try to find it & upload it to YT.

The thing is, I think you are wrong. Based on my own tests and developer feedback.

 

[777Driver]

No it doesn't work...advocates always cite circumstantial anecdotal evidence! ie I hit SR & the AI didn't notice me! That's not proof! Additionally, the 'eyeballing' explanation is expediency by those seeking to back up their argument that the AI don't cheat in relation to SR.

I came up with a test scenario some time ago - I'll try to find it & upload it to YT.

Dev quote that also seems to match the considerable amount of experience I have using stealth as a smuggling method.

Silent running is the best way to ensure that your signature is minimised as it actively reduces your emissions to a minimum.

Turning off lots of modules will reduce your signature - doing it enough can more or less match silent running with some ship/module configurations, but mileage may vary.

There is an additional aspect to emissions and AI. To simulate AI "eyeballing" you after you shut off emissions, just as a human can continue to follow and shoot at you, once an AI ship has detected you through sensor contact rules (emissions versus sensor strength) it retains knowledge of you as long as you remain reasonably close (a number of kilometres).

 

[Achilles7]

The thing is, I think you are wrong. Based on my own tests and developer feedback.

I would be happy to be proved wrong given that I think this is potentially a great feature of general gameplay..but my tests have indicated otherwise.

Also, the devs stated in patch notes that rails no longer hit with unerring accuracy...well my tests prove this to be incorrect! Hence some degree of scepticism is healthy when Frontier announce anything (obviously, one can avoid rails all day long, but that requires a manoeuvrable ship & skill/timing as I have posted previously with a vid - & all <10 viewers probably enjoyed the fruits of my labour there )

 

[babelfisch]

I would be happy to be proved wrong given that I think this is potentially a great feature of general gameplay..but my tests have indicated otherwise.

Also, the devs stated in patch notes that rails no longer hit with unerring accuracy...well my tests prove this to be incorrect! Hence some degree of scepticism is healthy when Frontier announce anything (obviously, one can avoid rails all day long, but that requires a manoeuvrable ship & skill/timing as I have posted previously with a vid - & all <10 viewers probably enjoyed the fruits of my labour there )

Maybe you just expect too much? It won't work when they are sitting 200m away from you.

 

[GraXXoR]

Dev quote that also seems to match the considerable amount of experience I have using stealth as a smuggling method.

Silent running is the best way to ensure that your signature is minimised as it actively reduces your emissions to a minimum.

Turning off lots of modules will reduce your signature - doing it enough can more or less match silent running with some ship/module configurations, but mileage may vary.

There is an additional aspect to emissions and AI. To simulate AI "eyeballing" you after you shut off emissions, just as a human can continue to follow and shoot at you, once an AI ship has detected you through sensor contact rules (emissions versus sensor strength) it retains knowledge of you as long as you remain reasonably close (a number of kilometres).

They should also then, take into account cockpit visibility.

 

[Achilles7]

Dev quote that also seems to match the considerable amount of experience I have using stealth as a smuggling method.

Silent running is the best way to ensure that your signature is minimised as it actively reduces your emissions to a minimum.

Turning off lots of modules will reduce your signature - doing it enough can more or less match silent running with some ship/module configurations, but mileage may vary.

There is an additional aspect to emissions and AI. To simulate AI "eyeballing" you after you shut off emissions, just as a human can continue to follow and shoot at you, once an AI ship has detected you through sensor contact rules (emissions versus sensor strength) it retains knowledge of you as long as you remain reasonably close (a number of kilometres).

EDIT - took forever to upload 10 mins of footage edited to ~2 mins

Vid Scenario:

I fired on the AI then boosted out of sensor range..engaged SR then returned to where the AI was. I took care to stay behind the asteroids to avoid the possibility of eyeball mk1. The AI took no notice then suddenly turned to face me while I was hidden behind a roid..it then hovered obviously targeting my SR ship & when I 'put my head above the parapet' it fired instantaneously! QED

[video=youtube;fdyXZp5E5i0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdyXZp5E5i0[/video]

 

[babelfisch]

EDIT - took forever to upload 10 mins of footage edited to ~2 mins

Vid Scenario:

I fired on the AI then boosted out of sensor range..engaged SR then returned to where the AI was. I took care to stay behind the asteroids to avoid the possibility of eyeball mk1. The AI took no notice then suddenly turned to face me while I was hidden behind a roid..it then hovered obviously targeting my SR ship & when I 'put my head above the parapet' it fired instantaneously! QED

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdyXZp5E5i0

Can't check distances because it's too blurry on my mobile, but this just proofs that LOS doesn't exist (BTW, nobody said this is simulated in game), not that silent running doesn't work.

 

[askavir]

When you're pulling a sir robin and your shields have dropped, silent running is definitively your friend.

 

[777Driver]

EDIT - took forever to upload 10 mins of footage edited to ~2 mins

Vid Scenario:

I fired on the AI then boosted out of sensor range..engaged SR then returned to where the AI was. I took care to stay behind the asteroids to avoid the possibility of eyeball mk1. The AI took no notice then suddenly turned to face me while I was hidden behind a roid..it then hovered obviously targeting my SR ship & when I 'put my head above the parapet' it fired instantaneously! QED

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdyXZp5E5i0

Devs made some tweaks during the last few patches. If that was a PvP encounter I would have been tracking you visually throughout the entire video, exhaust trails are a big giveaway (hence why FA-OFF can give you an advantage in stealth during PvP) As babelfisch also points out, I doubt NPC's care if you are hiding behind objects.

- Tweaks to make NPCs less effective against silent running
- Fixes to AI scanning players with silent running enabled

 

[Achilles7]

Devs made some tweaks during the last few patches. If that was a PvP encounter I would have been tracking you visually throughout the entire video, exhaust trails are a big giveaway (hence why FA-OFF can give you an advantage in stealth during PvP) As babelfisch also points out, I doubt NPC's care if you are hiding behind objects.

- Tweaks to make NPCs less effective against silent running
- Fixes to AI scanning players with silent running enabled

The vid was recorded in early Feb '17. Wow it sure is hard work when people have their minds made up about something...now I know how Richard Dawkins feels! Anyway, that's my contribution to the debate - I always advocate testing for oneself rather than others' opinions, hence the more vids out there on these mechanics, the better.

As I said previously, any evidence to the contrary would be gratefully received as I'm an avid exponent of SR in both PvP & PvE...so in that respect, we share a common vision, Driver.

 

[babelfisch]

The vid was recorded in early Feb '17. Wow it sure is hard work when people have their minds made up about something...now I know how Richard Dawkins feels! Anyway, that's my contribution to the debate - I always advocate testing for oneself rather than others' opinions, hence the more vids out there on these mechanics, the better.

As I said previously, any evidence to the contrary would be gratefully received as I'm an avid exponent of SR in both PvP & PvE...so in that respect, we share a common vision, Driver.

As far as I can tell it still doesn't show anything other than LOS doesn't work (nobody claimed it does). I could be wrong because I can't check distance on my mobile.

 

[bubbabenali]

Keep in mind that NPCs very often use fixed weapons and wouldn't need automated targeting anyways. So even if the game NPCs simulate the lost of targeting they might also simulate visual targeting.

 

[Ignition]

EDIT - took forever to upload 10 mins of footage edited to ~2 mins

Vid Scenario:

I fired on the AI then boosted out of sensor range..engaged SR then returned to where the AI was. I took care to stay behind the asteroids to avoid the possibility of eyeball mk1. The AI took no notice then suddenly turned to face me while I was hidden behind a roid..it then hovered obviously targeting my SR ship & when I 'put my head above the parapet' it fired instantaneously! QED

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdyXZp5E5i0

Even a scan detected from ANOTHER ship hahahahahaha. SR is useless.