General / Off-Topic Globalization Vs. Nationalism

[lysan]

Sometimes things not meant literally.

And my point is, for the UK the only resolution to avoid a catastrophe, to cease the brexit. nothing else can help.

that ship has already left the port, it's only a matter of time before the snowball effect ocure.

The Dutch are soon going to vote, it's going to be very interesting to watch, then the French and the Germans, I predict shockwaves in the EU foundation.

 

[Minonian]

And i predict nothing, like this. Just watching, and only opening my mouth when i know what i'm talking about? Anything else only good to make a fool out of myself.

 

[lysan]

And i predict nothing, like this. Just watching, and only opening my mouth when i know what i'm talking about? Anything else only good to make a fool out of myself.

Well, we are all fools in this game, the real players are playing everyone like a game of chess.

 

[Minonian]

You are only a fool if you let yourself fooled.

You know what's the difference between these two card?

The difference between the fool and magician is less than you can imagine. they are doing the same thing, only the magician aware of himself, knowing himself, and what he doing doing it consciously.

 

[Aereon Theed]

This is also because you don't have visibility on the posts that were deleted or changed by moderation because, well, they are deleted or changed

I was speaking about the times I have seen others get attacked or have been attacked myself and no moderator comes around to deal with it. But yes, open this up again...

 

[Aereon Theed]

Globalism when actually practiced would be the ultimate manner of capitalism - that men everywhere are able to trade and act among themselves without any involuntary, monopolistic interference - while nationalism is nothing more than another attempt to control what people do (which in this case is based on their geographical location and only a few things are more absurd than the belief that people should follow a series of rules just because they want to live in one geographic location).

I happen to agree with you. Not a lot of people seem to believe this is true though, and there are of course issues with this, like pollution, etc. Legislation would be required to make everything perfectly level and proper.

 

[Ian Phillips]

I was speaking about the times I have seen others get attacked or have been attacked myself and no moderator comes around to deal with it. But yes, open this up again...

The forums have currently 5.25 million posts. We are volunteers, doing this in our own time, so whilst we are not working, sleeping, eating, spending some time with loved ones, playing the game or other things that need to be done on a daily basis.

Simply put - it is not feasable to expect that every post is going to be read by the moderation team to assess whether it conforms to all the forums rules.

So - if you feel that a post does break a rule, please report it, then you can be sure that the team will see it.

 

[Aereon Theed]

The forums have currently 5.25 million posts. We are volunteers, doing this in our own time, so whilst we are not working, sleeping, eating, spending some time with loved ones, playing the game or other things that need to be done on a daily basis.

Simply put - it is not feasable to expect that every post is going to be read by the moderation team to assess whether it conforms to all the forums rules.

So - if you feel that a post does break a rule, please report it, then you can be sure that the team will see it.

I realize. Thanks.

 

[Minonian]

The fool/jester is, Hermetically speaking, oft the wisest person.

The little foolish man whom you are in the start? Or the mask of fool, what you wear, to hide your indentity, from the world? The stupid idiot, whom have a lot of learn, or the jester, who after learned everything, and as such became a master. Took the next step, and knows everything by heart, returned to the beginning, but not as the fool, but as the jester? Do you see? There can be a lot of difference between fool and fool!

Spoiler

[video=youtube;V8oRR90BFdo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8oRR90BFdo[/video]

 

[Aereon Theed]

Stopping brexit (I voted to stay) will not stop any economic crash that is coming. China is slowing down and so will the rest of the world, because of that and also no one has noticed, that the US stocks being at a record high, is a sure sign of an impending crash there. Plus all of the regulations that were imposed, due to the 2008 fiasco, are slowly being eroded, by the right wing governments slowly taking over, across the planet.

For those who are experiencing Brexit first hand, is this seen by those around you as a nationalism vs globalism debate or just a departure from a broken league of nations?

 

[Cydramech]

I happen to agree with you. Not a lot of people seem to believe this is true though, and there are of course issues with this, like pollution, etc. Legislation would be required to make everything perfectly level and proper.

Legislation is the cause in the first place, not the solution.

 

[Aereon Theed]

Legislation is the cause in the first place, not the solution.

Please explain. Maybe I didn't understand your initial post then. I was meaning towards all those in such a world following the same laws and practices.

 

[Aereon Theed]

Edited.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Lao Tsu said, and I'm paraphrasing here - The more laws, the less free the person. The rub with universal legislation is not everyone agrees with the same laws worldwide. Subsidiarity works better it would seem.

Everyone agrees with laws that (they think) benefit them, everyone disagrees with laws (they think) hinder them.
Subsidiarity works in some regards and not in others.
Things like environmental protection. If Switzerland just pours all it's chemical waste into the Rhine because of lack of regulation, who's gonna suffer?

So we all can just hold those world meetings on basic human rights and environmental protection and economic cooperation and try to set a framework and hope the last person on this planet sees that it's in their interest.

It might mean chaos/rebooting for a short period but not anarchy. Anarchy is uncommon today. Few nations are Anarchic truly.

Anarchy requires way too much energy to work. It's easier to elect representatives and have them discuss things over a green table rather than fighting over every scrap of anything.
Fracturing of nations is not too uncommon, though. Even the UK is heading in that direction. Why? Because even nations are in the end just superstructures and that conjured "national unity" is a silly concept.
So instead of widespread subsidiarity or complete unifying dictatorship, a more granular approach might be required.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Too many confuse Globalisation (expansion of world trade routes post Belle Epoque) with Global-ISM (advocacy of centralisation/concentration of Governmental power).

And too many confuse government (the allocation of resources fairly so that people don't suffer and the administration of laws so that people can live their lives without fearing the powerful) with despotisim (where a single entity rules with absolute power and zero checks and balances).

No.

For example, international efforts to get human beings to recycle, lower their carbon footprint, and reduce their negative impact upon the planet are not part of a massive New World Order conspiracy by aliens from the Bilderberg Group, but they are a real effort to actually help future generations have a world in which to live.

Humanity has always faced enormous problems, but the problems are now worse than ever because humanity is more powerful than ever and the ultimate root of all these problems is humanity itself. Proper global governance is absolutely vital at this time. The delay in bringing it about is putting future generations in great peril.

 

[Boomer Kay]

For example, international efforts to get human beings to recycle, lower their carbon footprint, and reduce their negative impact upon the planet are not part of a massive New World Order conspiracy by aliens from the Bilderberg Group, but they are a real effort to actually help future generations have a world in which to live.

You can't even convince people that it's in their own best interest that an international supply chain is held to the highest standard of food safety by international regulations.
If I'd pour rat poison over someone's tea leafs, they'd probably sue me for murder. If I'd butcher an old horse and sold that meat as "prime beef", they'd feel cheated and might chase me out of town.

That some raw material supplying countries have no food safety regulations or don't enforce them and can do whatever they deem useful to increase their profits, which in the end results in actually harmful food right now on your table is maybe really too hard to grasp.
The industry always goes "yea, but if we have to follow regulations, stuff will get more expensive" - which is does anyway due to things like exchange rate changes, but with no added benefit.

Same goes for political stability. I had a discussion with some nationalist, who went "yea, but why should I care about wars fought somewhere in africa".
I guess it's still not actually clear. Your IPhone, fuel, cotton and other raw material is produced there. Unrest is not good for business. It always costs more to protect something (EU patrols in mediterranean and around the horn of africa? few million $ a day?) than to attack it. And if the situation gets too dire locally, we have something like the refugee crisis and turkey has the ransom of 3 million refugees they can "unleash" onto the EU.
So nothing to be gained from better international cooperation, basic human rights, common environmental protection, global financial stability?

 

[Javert]

For those who are experiencing Brexit first hand, is this seen by those around you as a nationalism vs globalism debate or just a departure from a broken league of nations?

From what I've seen, Brexit is seen in a hundred different ways depending who you talk to.

However, if you try to distill what people are telling you down to the basis behind it, it can often be broadly categorized into nationalism versus globalism if you define that pretty widely. For many it is about bringing back the good old days in some way or another, which you can translate to anti globalism since you often find that what they don't like about the current times is the globalized nature of it, and the lack of control by individual nations of their own destiny.

(The idea that individual nations controlled their own destiny in the past is probably an illusion, but in any case this is what a lot of people seem to think).

On the other side you have a lot of people who think that globalization is an unstoppable force, somewhat like the sun coming up each morning - it has its drawbacks, but you cannot stop it unless you want to become a nation like North Korea where large % of the population don't even have enough food to eat. Trying to withdraw from the international community in order to stop it is only going to lead to your country being poorer (or having to go to war to get what you want).

Edit: I do sometimes wonder if this is what a lot of people are very angry about - being told by politicians that the global rate of change and globalisation is a fact of life and we just have to suck it up and embrace it.

Immigration was a big reason for people voting Brexit - this also can be categorized somewhat into the same debate since presumably massive increase in immigration is driven by globalization.

However even this becomes generalized and complex, because some people voted brexit in order to stop globalization, whilst others voted brexit because they think the EU is anti globalization. You've got one large group thinking that leaving the EU will mean that we re-open all the old coal mines and steel foundries, whilst another thinks that this will mean we can outsource all that stuff to even cheaper countries without all those pesky EU employment laws.

 

[Javert]

For example, international efforts to get human beings to recycle, lower their carbon footprint, and reduce their negative impact upon the planet are not part of a massive New World Order conspiracy by aliens from the Bilderberg Group, but they are a real effort to actually help future generations have a world in which to live.

It's odd because when I was growing up, and in the times before that, many people wanted to make the most of what they had - re-using things, reparing them, recycling them, was seen as a unquestioned virtue.

These days, it almost seems like you are an enemy of the state and preventing the onward march of global growth if you suggest that if things that can be re-used several times, we should do that instead of burrying them in a big hole in the ground and making another one :S

 

[Boomer Kay]

(The idea that individual nations controlled their own destiny in the past is probably an illusion, but in any case this is what a lot of people seem to think).

Looks more like "family business".

 

[lysan]

Is that so? Than why you are so busy with destroying the EU and trying to make a money out of it? just like when you bet on stock exchange around the brexit referendum? If it's really necessary we can dug out that posts. You don't care about anything except your own skin, you don't think about anything except your own ideas and ideology.

By taking a part an referendum supporter helping to cripple a nation and make personal gain out of it you helping people? Do you mind to tell me how?

I'm not destroying the EU the EU is destroying it's self, and I make money on anything I can, as long it's legal. It's called surviving, and I'm pretty good at it.

I don't see anything good in the EU construction, well you can of course disagree, and that is just fine, we are allowed to disagree.
My wife is a 100% communist, and me in the opposite direction, however we don't let our view of life destroy our life together.

During the years, the edges is grinded down a bit, I see her point of view and she see mine.

However we do have some "interresting" discussions sometimes Mostly ending with me taking the dog out for a walk [haha]