Step up from Viper Mk4?

Gavin Burke · Mar 10, 2017

I've just reached Expert rank and done my first PvE Bounty Hunting in an Eagle then upgraded to Viper Mk4 and engineered it somewhat

I'm looking at my next "bigger" ship and feel torn between the Vulture, which is still a small size, has super agility and decent shield stats (I can engineer to 1,000MJ with bi-weave and 4 boosters with random engineer spins on Corioils) or go for an actual bigger ship and take a Fer-De-Lance which is bigger, less manvourable, same speed as my Vulture build but not so much in the boost, but has almost double the DPS, more armour and around 1450MJ with bi-weave and 6 engineered boosters (will this get nerfed in 2.3???)

So, question is should I work my way up in small steps and go with the Vulture, or step up now and get more confortable sooner with a bigger, slower turning ship with bigger firepower for when I eventually arrive into a "big 3" ship??

Costs for the builds are 12mil vs 73mil... I've got 150mil so clearly got no other use for them credits

EDIT: I've used gimballed bursts and MC's on both the builds, so one of each for the Vulture and 2 medium bursts, 2 medium MC and 1 huge MC on the FDL

Conch · Mar 10, 2017

first rule about the Vulture... NEVER skip the vulture!

shadragon · Mar 10, 2017

Conch said:
first rule about the Vulture... NEVER skip the vulture!

second rule about the Vulture, NEVER sell it.

who? · Mar 10, 2017

Gavin Burke said:
I've just reached Expert rank and done my first PvE Bounty Hunting in an Eagle then upgraded to Viper Mk4 and engineered it somewhat

I'm looking at my next "bigger" ship and feel torn between the Vulture, which is still a small size, has super agility and decent shield stats (I can engineer to 1,000MJ with bi-weave and 4 boosters with random engineer spins on Corioils) or go for an actual bigger ship and take a Fer-De-Lance which is bigger, less manvourable, same speed as my Vulture build but not so much in the boost, but has almost double the DPS, more armour and around 1450MJ with bi-weave and 6 engineered boosters (will this get nerfed in 2.3???)

So, question is should I work my way up in small steps and go with the Vulture, or step up now and get more confortable sooner with a bigger, slower turning ship with bigger firepower for when I eventually arrive into a "big 3" ship??

Costs for the builds are 12mil vs 73mil... I've got 150mil so clearly got no other use for them credits

EDIT: I've used gimballed bursts and MC's on both the builds, so one of each for the Vulture and 2 medium bursts, 2 medium MC and 1 huge MC on the FDL

Personally I'd go for the Vulture. It's small, agile, and packs a great punch for its size; plus it's a lot cheaper to buy & outfit. You'll want to engineer its jump range at least, and probably its powerplant. The only real criticism I have is that it's a little dull. You only have two hardpoints and they're not really suited to turrets so you don't have a lot of outfitting / gameplay options other than spin & hold the trigger down.

If you go the other direction (FdL) you might not be tempted ever to go back down to cheaper/smaller craft, so you'll have missed out. It's good to try everything for a while, and see how they compare.

Marshall... · Mar 10, 2017

You may also want to try a FAS. Heavy Duty Boosters will be getting a nerf, so you may want to get a few Resistance Boosters instead.

When I eventually arrived at the big 3, i quickly went back to flying my Python for pew pew (I don't enjoy flying the larger ships at all).

cmdr_Havalok · Mar 10, 2017

The Vulchy definitely deserves a try. It's a solid, relatively low rebuy, combat ship. That's a very important point so I'll repeat it: COMBAT SHIP. Don't expect to do much else with it. Might not even have a cargo bay on it. You will also need a crash course in Power Management. The Power Plant simply can't power everything so you will have to learn to prioritize systems, which is a good thing. I'm not trying to make her sound like a bad ship, she's a great ship, but I've known other Cmdrs that have gotten frustrated because they had unrealistic expectations of her. Most of the early ships can do a little bit of everything, the Vulture is a truly dedicated fighter.

Conch · Mar 10, 2017

shadragon said:
second rule about the Vulture, NEVER sell it.

Amen!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Arc said:
You may also want to try a FAS. Heavy Duty Boosters will be getting a nerf, so you may want to get a few Resistance Boosters instead.

When I eventually arrived at the big 3, i quickly went back to flying my Python for pew pew (I don't enjoy flying the larger ships at all).

well... ive got an optimal multiplier of 38.7% on DDT5 for my vette, it turns like an unmodded vulture.

goemon · Mar 10, 2017

the vulture is boring to me, but you'll learn a lot by outfitting one (i highly doubt that you can get that shield value in practice with its power restrictions, or overheating as an alternaive) - fitting and flying one will teach you a lot.

there is a reason why so many cmdrs these days are flying a FDL.

neither the vulture or the FDL will prepare you to fly the big three .... a dropship, gunship or python would be a better prep. as it looks as if you like your viper, look into that - the viper mkIV is called "mini-python" by some cmdrs.

smiths121 · Mar 10, 2017

cmdr_Havalok said:
The Vulchy definitely deserves a try. It's a solid, relatively low rebuy, combat ship. That's a very important point so I'll repeat it: COMBAT SHIP. Don't expect to do much else with it. Might not even have a cargo bay on it. You will also need a crash course in Power Management. The Power Plant simply can't power everything so you will have to learn to prioritize systems, which is a good thing. I'm not trying to make her sound like a bad ship, she's a great ship, but I've known other Cmdrs that have gotten frustrated because they had unrealistic expectations of her. Most of the early ships can do a little bit of everything, the Vulture is a truly dedicated fighter.

As a quick note - I would use the 2 x class 1 slots for cargo to give 4 tons. Soms of the massacre missions give commodities as part of their reward.

Simon

street · Mar 10, 2017

I talk from my 2000 hrs of game time. I agree with two statements that have been sent, that are the following ones:

Conch said:
first rule about the Vulture... NEVER skip the vulture!

^ I agree with this statement, mainly because the Vulture has been the ship that made me afford the Python and, when I lost it, due to my irresponsability, has been my wormhole to the Anaconda.

shadragon said:
second rule about the Vulture, NEVER sell it.

^ An engineered Vulture can make a lot of heavy damage thanks to both its maneuverability and to the fact that it has both decent shields and a discrete hull. Its limited dimensions allow for many escapist tactics.

My suggestion is: even if it might seem boring, and in some sense it is, the Vulture is one of the best money making ships, if put in a Haz RES. An Engineered Beam laser plus an engineered MC can be deadly, in my opinion.

Gavin Burke · Mar 10, 2017

Conch said:
first rule about the Vulture... NEVER skip the vulture!

Seems to be the motto for many around these neck of the woods so guess Vulture is will be!

who? said:
You'll want to engineer its jump range at least, and probably its powerplant. The only real criticism I have is that it's a little dull.

you don't have a lot of gameplay options other than spin & hold the trigger down.

I will be engineering it's PP, thrusters, FSD, power dist, shield, MC, burst and shield boosters - and my gameplay is "spin and shoot" hence the mega agility appealed to me as I love my Eagle (even if it did take an age to kill anything!!)

Arc said:
You may also want to try a FAS. Heavy Duty Boosters will be getting a nerf, so you may want to get a few Resistance Boosters instead.

Maybe I won't engineer the boosters quick yet then ... or suppose could easily re-roll. I'm only Midshipman so far so can only get the FDS right now - and that looks very very light on shields (400MJ with 6A and 4 x 0A boosters!!) as I prefer to be shielded than super hull tanked (as I don't use the AFMU's)

cmdr_Havalok said:
The Vulchy definitely deserves a try. It's a solid, relatively low rebuy, combat ship. That's a very important point so I'll repeat it: COMBAT SHIP. Don't expect to do much else with it. Might not even have a cargo bay on it. You will also need a crash course in Power Management. The Power Plant simply can't power everything so you will have to learn to prioritize systems, which is a good thing. I'm not trying to make her sound like a bad ship, she's a great ship, but I've known other Cmdrs that have gotten frustrated because they had unrealistic expectations of her. Most of the early ships can do a little bit of everything, the Vulture is a truly dedicated fighter.

I do not multi-role anything, I have only two ships with cargo holds (T7 and Sidewinder, which is 4TN for on planets), so my ship would be pure combat only, no scanners or any junk not needed. I'm used to power managing on my Viper as I engineered stuff too much towards dist draw so have to juggle alot during fights.

goemon said:
the vulture is boring to me, but you'll learn a lot by outfitting one (i highly doubt that you can get that shield value in practice with its power restrictions, or overheating as an alternaive) - fitting and flying one will teach you a lot.

neither the vulture or the FDL will prepare you to fly the big three .... a dropship, gunship or python would be a better prep. as it looks as if you like your viper, look into that - the viper mkIV is called "mini-python" by some cmdrs.

With the Vulture being quite cheap for my fitting (12mil without the 15% Li discount) I'll probably have a play with that. This is my build (all engineered rolls are "random" from Coriolis at grade levels I've got unlocked), so well within the power, well once cargo and FSD are number 2, but I have no idea how hot it'll run (guns are only 4 HPS): https://eddp.co/u/lxv7VlSq

Ceekay · Mar 10, 2017

Get a Vulture and keep it, engineered it's a joy to fly although as has been said weapon options are a bit limited but that's not that big an issue.

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vul...OISWIdQhkAuY/2U+mgcwBAAA=&bn=Vulture F (EDMC)

Another option is the iCourier (empire rank Master required), small with great shields speed and decent firepower

Heavy

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp...SaItvqWP9+gcRh2NGegEAAA==&bn=Courier H (EDMC)

Light

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp...uotqcwKi0MY7IL5+gjf6uAQAA&bn=Courier L (EDMC)

Gavin Burke · Mar 10, 2017

smiths121 said:
As a quick note - I would use the 2 x class 1 slots for cargo to give 4 tons. Soms of the massacre missions give commodities as part of their reward.

Simon

Ah yeh, super annoying stupid missions that still wanna give me utter balls as a reward even though they're now not needed for anything!!

- - - Updated - - -

street said:
My suggestion is: even if it might seem boring, and in some sense it is, the Vulture is one of the best money making ships, if put in a Haz RES. An Engineered Beam laser plus an engineered MC can be deadly, in my opinion.

I prefer the small, agile faster ships - prefered my Eagle much more than flying a Cobra or Viper, just the limitations to firepower put me off somewhat.

P.S. Which blueprint do you use for Beams? I'd have thought everyone would proper drain the weapons capacitor

Ceekay said:
Another option is the iCourier (empire rank Master required), small with great shields speed and decent firepower

I ranked to Master for the iCourier but just didn't like the look of just 3 medium hardpoints, seemed pointless swapping my 2 smalls and 2 mediums from my Viper so didn't look to be a "step up", more of a sideways step...

who? · Mar 10, 2017

Oh, and if you need any more reasons to go for the Vulture:

- the shipkits are very nice.
- it does this cool shuddering sound as it slows down from orbital glide and the thrusters kick in, sounds like its shaking itself to pieces.

Gavin Burke · Mar 10, 2017

who? said:
Oh, and if you need any more reasons to go for the Vulture:

- the shipkits are very nice.
- it does this cool shuddering sound as it slows down from orbital glide and the thrusters kick in, sounds like its shaking itself to pieces.

good reasons! Will it look good with the green ammunition I currently use with my Viper though??

cmdr_Havalok · Mar 10, 2017

Gavin Burke said:
good reasons! Will it look good with the green ammunition I currently use with my Viper though??

Well green everything is a must.....

Stealthie · Mar 10, 2017

Conch said:
first rule about the Vulture... NEVER skip the vulture!

shadragon said:
second rule about the Vulture, NEVER sell it.

Third rule about the Vulture: Don't form an opinion on the Vulture until you've had the power-plant engineered.

After that, just go and kill anything that gets in your way.

*EDIT*
Gratuitous pic of Fluffy in his natural habitat:

Conch · Mar 10, 2017

Stealthie said:
Third rule about the Vulture: Don't form an opinion on the Vulture until you've had the power-plant engineered.

After that, just go and kill anything that gets in your way.

*EDIT*
Gratuitous pic of Fluffy in his natural habitat:

http://i.imgur.com/O0usscn.png

or smack on a Bi-weave, so you can still run A-rated thrusters.

Gavin Burke · Mar 10, 2017

Stealthie said:
http://i.imgur.com/O0usscn.png

Now that just makes me wanna get one - OMG that looks g awesome, two large hardpoints on such a tiny frame .... and a spolier!!!

who? · Mar 10, 2017

I'm still confused about the Vulture's cabin though. It does seem.. 'bolted on' rather than an intrinsic part of the fuselage. And there are warning labels on what look like actuators on the sides warning of moving parts. I was convinced the cabin would be detachable at some stage. But I've tried banging it off most of the rocks in the galaxy at this stage and it still won't come off..