Release on Console Root of Much of ED's Criticism?

[[VR] Merkir]

I think FD have answered that for one you, as none of the marketing I've seen boasts that this is a simulator. The only time I recall FD staff using the word simulation has been in relation to the Stella Forge or BGS.

Just pointing out from the ED homepage: "400 billion star systems at an incredible 1:1 scale, with a full galactic and technological simulation based on real scientific principles."

 

[verminstar]

Just pointing out from the ED homepage: "400 billion star systems at an incredible 1:1 scale, with a full galactic and technological simulation based on real scientific principles."

A simulation of the galaxy not the game itself which is merely simlike at best.

Ah, ninjad ^

We did this whole sim/simlike discussion about 2 weeks ago...just sayin ^

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Which only talks about the galactic and technological simulation, not the actual game.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Infiltrator_2K]

I think FD have answered that for one you, as none of the marketing I've seen boasts that this is a simulator. The only time I recall FD staff using the word simulation has been in relation to the Stella Forge or BGS.

Yeah, fair play to them too. I'd never say they've mis-sold Elite Dangerous. But they will not be able to deny that Elite Dangerous will inevitably be held back by the cross-platforming.

 

[Challenger R A]

So in the eyes of the OP, it's players like me who are killing the game and dumbing it down because of the platform I play it on, even though im fully in favour of simulation gameplay? Even if I say this, I've been told I don't care enough for sim gameplay otherwise I would have invested in a PC instead.

Glad to see im so welcome on this game. And for the record, Elite is the game I play the absolute most on xbox because of the immersive feeling of piloting my own ship where there is no narrative to follow and I live and die by my own actions and situations. But I guess this is not good enough of an opinion in the eyes of other gamers... :/

Im sorry if that helps?

 

[Father Giliam]

Elite Dangerous will never be able to reach its full potential if cross-platformed because PCs aren't static. That is a simple undeniable fact. So please tell me about being the best for both. The PC is going to lose out to the console and that's just tragic given ED's was originally created for the PC.

And yes, I am bias, I've got a gaming rig that costs a lot of money so I want to use it to it full potential as I'm a immersive simulation fan. Am I being unreasonable? I think not, and yes, sadly it may be a case that I along with other PC gamers do jump ship, but if we do it would have been inevitable and Frontier's making the day they decided to cross-platform and dumb the game down.

I'll just cut out the part about SC for various reasons, main one being this is the ED forums.

Elite Dangerous will never be able to reach its full potential because they decided to release it to console? Did you ever consider that maybe it was a decision made before they even released the game to PC, that maybe, they had planned to release on consoles beforehand? And that your vision for the game is wildly different than FDs?

Regardless, it is out on console(s), and that is clearly FDs intention. FDs thoughts on the potential are clearly different from yours and guess what? Their opinion on the matter is all that actually matters. They are not here to cater to a subset of their community. They are here to create the game based on their vision. Clearly, their vision is different than yours. Maybe its time you hop ship, because the community would get that tiny bit better having one less vitriolic person spouting their elitist bias, and you would be able to stop whining about how the game is lesser because its on console. A win win situation. Maybe, just maybe, you will get it through your head that the game wasn't "dumbed down," it just wasn't as "smart" as you thought it was.

 

[stormyuk]

So in the eyes of the OP, it's players like me who are killing the game and dumbing it down because of the platform I play it on, even though im fully in favour of simulation gameplay? Even if I say this, I've been told I don't care enough for sim gameplay otherwise I would have invested in a PC instead.

I am on a PS4 and I don't want it arcadey either, but its my fault also. We all want it dumbing down apparently even when we don't. I wont even probably use MC, not really interested in that at the moment either.

 

[CMDR MRMAURICE]

I own ED on pc and Xbox. Started on pc nearly 2 years ago, had it for 5 months on Xbox. I'm sorry OP that fdev released it on consoles and i purchased it. We the players aren't to blame FULL STOP. I think elite is great ( i have a thread of a similar name). So no not ALL console owners are moaning whiners. The only time i hear the whole #pcmasterrace bull is on kiddie YouTube videos and social media. I thought the elite community where more mature. Constructive criticism, not blaming who plays it on what platform

 

[Infiltrator_2K]

Maybe its time you hop ship, because the community would get that tiny bit better having one less vitriolic person spouting their elitist bias,

No need to be nasty. I thought we were going to be civil and act like grown ups. Besides, you should be happy if you're a console player, as the future of Elite Dangerous is clearly targeted more towards the console market share given its technology is static. In fact, I now rather see Elite Dangerous as more of a console game that's also available on the PC. Now there's an irony. Especially when it also seems it's us PC players who are more likely moan and whinge - albeit about the dumbing down.

I've invested a lot of time in Elite Dangerous and a bit of money too, but, I've had an absolute blast on the game and it's been worth every penny. But sadly, being a realism and immersion fan I need a game that will push the boundaries of the latest technology and if a game is cross-platformed I know it will be the console's hardware that will hold the game back. But, for PC gamers who have a low-end build, I'm sure they won't be too bothered about the cross-platforming.

Personally though I think it was a mistake for David Brabun to cross-platform Elite Dangerous, as the single hardware configuration console will I believe rear its ugly head later down the line and come back to haunt him by limiting his dream's true potential. Elite Dangerous will IMO find it hard to evolve when a console's hardware isn't evolving but just stored away there in a sealed box being forever superseded by faster processing power.

 

[Cwini]

Personally though I think it was a mistake for David Brabun to cross-platform Elite Dangerous, as the single hardware configuration console will I believe rear its ugly head later down the line and come back to haunt him by limiting his dream's true potential. Elite Dangerous will IMO find it hard to evolve when a console's hardware isn't evolving but just stored away there in a sealed box being forever superseded by faster processing power.

Hasn't FD (Brett IIRC) already stated that the minimum PC spec for ED is lower than the consoles ?

If anything it's this "cater to the potato" mentality you should address first ...

 

[Ian Phillips]

Thats true - ED runs on PC machines that are far below Xbox specs.

Also, platform restrictions have not stopped the development of ED in any way - just look at how Horizons was developed using the latest tech, even if it meant leaving the Mac platform behind.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Amazing. And ultimately disappointing but not surprising as everyone pushes their agenda and g-d you to hell if you disagree with them.

Obviously some feature, play, performance, will "suffer" (or not be implemented) as you try to fit one game onto multiple and different platforms. How can this even be denied?

 

[verminstar]

Very easy to deny because the code fer consoles and pc are completely different...it's not the same game, it's a clone of what pc gamers get...that's the difference and the one detail that blows holes in about half the current theories doing the rounds.

There's also the little fact that console technology is not actually static at all...new consoles with significantly more power are already in the pipeline to be released later this year. This hot on the heels of the new xb1 s which is specifically designed to work best with 4K screens. Hardly static at all.

And then there's this alleged moaning and whining from console players...not one single example of which can be found...not one. That's even after dating the op to find it after his claim on the thread title. It's just an opinion with no basis in fact made by someone not very knowledgable...he even admitted as much several times. Even after a mod has stated as such, and still it's the fault of consoles.

Gameplay will suffer obviously you say? Can ye provide an example, or is this just another assumption? Currently, the bone runs ED with ease even in the core which makes most machines work harder. It actually runs better than lower end pc with the new Xbox reportedly running at 60fps which is double what it's currently running at, so that brings it level to mid range pc while actually outclassing lower end pc entirely...so what gameplay has to be simplified fer consoles? None...unless ye can supply a source fer this claim? No didn't think so. If anything, it needs dumbed down to ensure lower end pc can still run it...hardly the fault of consoles after all then.

You lot don't half make me laugh sometimes...crying about moaning that ye can't back up about consoles that ye know nothing about. Absolutely priceless ^

 

[Aidan Brooder]

There are so many myths - and also so many truths - around the console vs PC topic.

On the PC players side there is the fear of the game being dumbed down. That is not because most PC players - unless trolling - think all console players are dumb.
It is because the main input - the controller - is much more limited than a keyboard/mouse.

So if we assume that most players on PC use Keyboard/Mouse & most console players are using a controller then at the end of the day the game will be held in check by the limitations of the controller.

I think the market blurs though, atm. Many PC gamers own a controller in addition to keyboard and mouse. This is partly because of badly ported games but also because for some games controller is just more convenient.

I play Elite with a HOTAS joystick with mouse and keyboard as support (galaxy map selections eg.). (And a voice pack... or two...)

I'm also using EDDiscovery. Now, voice packs & third party programs definitely are things we'll not see on console. So for me this would be a showstopper.
Just like I wouldn't play Skyrim on a console. The base game is not what I buy an Elder Scrolls title for. I buy it for the huge number of player made mods that will keep the game alive after the base content is done.

Still, I would never say that console players are dumb and want arcadey games.
I'm pretty sure the same idea of a grand universe with lots of different things to do and experience are what drew the majority of both console and PC players to this game.

I'm personally quite disappointed with recent developments like the insta-telehopping, the cheap hologram explanations,...
I never made a big secret out of that, but I don't blame console players for these immersion breakers. (And, yes, I consider immersion an important factor in a SciFi space sim. It's not Kerbal. It's not trying to simulate reality. It is trying to put you into a SciFi setting with some SciFi lore.)

But these are gameplay decisions the developer made. I didn't hear a loud crowd of console players shout for implementation of multi-crew in what I - my opinion, not the one universal truth - consider a lazy approach. There were many much more elegant solutions available. (Star Citizen: If you want to play yourself, you need to get there. If you want to be on your friend's ship quickly, you play as one of his crewmen. Voila. No breaking the fourth wall. No insta-hopping.)

For those who argue that 'it's just a game'... Yes, and a movie is just a movie, a book just a book. They are still following their inner logic. Even fantasy movies do, even SciFi movies. Ripley couldn't just say: "Damn, lucky it's just a movie..." open the door and stand in her living room. That's why you fevered with her.

When the fourth wall hits you in the face too often, you lose that feeling.

Anyway: I wouldn't blame console players for all this. It was Frontier's decision.

I think multicrew will be something people will try out and it will stick with relatively few people.

Just like CQB wasn't/isn't very popular. They tried to get more PVP players into a game that is so huge that you just don't meet other players that often unless you agree on a meeting point or have to go through a bottleneck (and then catch the 'correct' instance). Or it's a community goal.

So, I still have the option to just ignore multicrew unless they make it so over-powered that I have no choice but to play multicrew.

Now that they have done something for the part of the community that wanted ultra-fast action and dungeon finder-style game elements, I hope they do something for another sub-group of the playerbase.

Piracy, Exploration, Trade, Warfare - they all need a lot of love. There was another thread somewhere where I explained what I'd like to see for those elements of the game.

So, in any case: Fly Safe, Commanders. PC or Console. I don't care!

 

[Father Giliam]

No need to be nasty. I thought we were going to be civil and act like grown ups.

That went out the window the moment you stereotyoed an entire consumer base, meaning before even the first reply. Sure its fair to criticize a game, and should be done when its constructive criticism. But when your entire argument is based on your belief that the game should be made to cater to you while blocking out others, you've lost any credibility.

Also, again, the game is not being or was ever "dumbed down" after release. The game likely was designed to be cross platform from the start, meaning the supposed potential lost was never there.

As for consoles being static, an individual one is. But they can go through multiple iterations (PS4 Pro and Scorpio), then they can move onto a new generation. And after the hop from PS3 and 360, the architecture for the consoles was switched to the same as a PC. For all intents and purposes, consoles are nothing more than low-ish end PCs now. This means with later iterations/generations, which would essentially be like upgrading a PC, the game can continue to develop.

Elite Dangerous (nor any game for that matter) should be aiming to cater to the highest end PC user which will be the smallest group in potential consumers, and can vary wildly as technology advances (which there hasn't been any big advancement in quite some time). To do so would kill the game before it can even get its foot in the door.

 

[Stamford Rider]

Very easy to deny because the code fer consoles and pc are completely different...

I work in game development, and frankly this is total nonsense. The vast majority of the code is common between platforms; it is developed on PC, because in the early development phase we can be sloppy about optimisation because good PCs are so much faster than consoles, towards release we start fully optimising the code to run well, rather than at all, on consoles, most of the code remains common, because a win, speed wise, on consoles is also going to be a win on PC .

 

[Infiltrator_2K]

That went out the window the moment you stereotyoed an entire consumer base, meaning before even the first reply. Sure its fair to criticize a game, and should be done when its constructive criticism. But when your entire argument is based on your belief that the game should be made to cater to you while blocking out others, you've lost any credibility.

Also, again, the game is not being or was ever "dumbed down" after release. The game likely was designed to be cross platform from the start, meaning the supposed potential lost was never there.

As for consoles being static, an individual one is. But they can go through multiple iterations (PS4 Pro and Scorpio), then they can move onto a new generation. And after the hop from PS3 and 360, the architecture for the consoles was switched to the same as a PC. For all intents and purposes, consoles are nothing more than low-ish end PCs now. This means with later iterations/generations, which would essentially be like upgrading a PC, the game can continue to develop.

Elite Dangerous (nor any game for that matter) should be aiming to cater to the highest end PC user which will be the smallest group in potential consumers, and can vary wildly as technology advances (which there hasn't been any big advancement in quite some time). To do so would kill the game before it can even get its foot in the door.

So, Elite Dangerous is cross-platformed to work with the PS4, and later down the line a more powerful "iteration" will be released that can do a lot more and make games look and feel even more realistic, 'but', because Elite Dangerous is cross-platformed to work with its earlier model being the PS4, it won't be able to implement this new technology because of the compatibility issue. That's brilliant and proves my point exactly why Elite Dangerous will struggle to evolve. I mean, can you play PS4 games on a PS3? So, Elite Dangerous is locked to the PS4 with regards to performance and it'll never be able to build on anything that exceeds the PS4's hardware limitations.

 

[Father Giliam]

So, Elite Dangerous is cross-platformed to work with the PS4, and later down the line a more powerful "iteration" will be released that can do a lot more and make games look and feel even more realistic, 'but', because Elite Dangerous is cross-platformed to work with its earlier model being the PS4, it won't be able to implement this new technology because of the compatibility issue. That's brilliant and proves my point exactly why Elite Dangerous will struggle to evolve. I mean, can you play PS4 games on a PS3? So, Elite Dangerous is locked to the PS4 with regards to performance and it'll never be able to build on anything that exceeds the PS4's hardware limitations.

You do realise that support is dropped for the older systems a few years after a new one comes out right? This removes such a limitation. Then consider that the current generation of consoles are running at higher specs than the minimum requirement. By the time they hit that limit and cant do more with it, there will be more iterations or a new generation of the consoles out. They do not and will not stop the development of the game, period. If they somehow did, guess what? Support would be dropped. Just like they did with the Mac. Just like other games have done before.

 

[Martian Successor]

So Frontier must be rolling over to appease console gamers by dumbing down Elite Dangerous to make it more console friendly, and as a consequence, ironically it's actually the PC crowd who could be moaning 'more' because of the changes being implemented that simplifies the game and makes it too arcadey.

I can buy that. But I can also understand their grievances with myself being bias and apposed to the dumbing down of the game. It seems there may already be some animosity between the PC and console crowd that I was unaware of.

It seems you just hear what you want to hear. The guy you're quoting said nothing about any kind of animosity between console gamers and PC gamers and yet here you are trying yet again to shoehorn in some kind of animosity between the two platforms because you imagined there is such an animosity. You and you alone are the only person in the conversation that thinks consoles gamers are "arcadey" whilst PC gamers seek out "realism" whatever the heck those two very subjective terms are even supposed to mean.

Let it go man. We're all gamers here. It doesn't matter what platform we game on. It's not the 80s or the 90s or even the naughties no more, consoles and PC have both moved way beyond their initially very narrow target markets. Nowadays the platform(s) we game on do not dictate nor inform our preference towards a certain type of video game genre. The fact that a space sim such as Elite Dangerous is popular on both PC and console should tell you all you need to know about how truly insignificant it is to try and build an imaginary wall between "PC people" and "Console people". Those days are gone and buried, please bury your hatchet along with them.

As is your trend you may now go ahead and ignore everything I just wrote and continue to pretend like there is some kind of animosity between consoles and PCs.

 

[LeoBartlet]

So, Elite Dangerous is cross-platformed to work with the PS4, and later down the line a more powerful "iteration" will be released that can do a lot more and make games look and feel even more realistic, 'but', because Elite Dangerous is cross-platformed to work with its earlier model being the PS4, it won't be able to implement this new technology because of the compatibility issue. That's brilliant and proves my point exactly why Elite Dangerous will struggle to evolve. I mean, can you play PS4 games on a PS3? So, Elite Dangerous is locked to the PS4 with regards to performance and it'll never be able to build on anything that exceeds the PS4's hardware limitations.

If you're gonna talk about consoles you should really learn about how they work.

Might make you look a little less silly.

Btw I own and play elite on Xbox and PC and might even get it for the PS4.

You mad?