After looking at the new beta, I have a few comments. It is time for serious discussion AND the DEVS to listen to us.

[iFred]

The main Problem is pretty simple: Players cant make a real difference in this game. We can hit the BGS a little bit, but without having to fear consequences. We don´t have a real economy, just a credit-generator, no production chains which have to be built, maintained or destroyed/interrupted. We all care about ourselves. Even in coop-missions like the ruin-storyline.

MEH WANTZ PLAYERZ TO BECOME IMPORTANTZ FOR THE GAMEZ!

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

I think I saw your post on PC Gamer Malakie, and I agreed then and I agree now. I stopped commenting on these forums a while back as the blindly devoted just make it hard to have a discussion.

Elite Dangerous is a game I love, but have no further inclination to play. At the moment the only real things of interest are killing enemies, slogging through Power Play, or slogging through the opaque BGS with my player group. Don't get me wrong, I've more than got my monies worth out of the game, but a lot of things that I thought were placeholders (missions being ropey, uninspired cookie cutter CG's, and a background story thats progress is glacial) haven't been improved.

I'd like to see Frontier slow down with adding new features and give a bit more time to the core of the game: more interesting missions, improved economy, better crime and punishment, etc etc.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

I will summarize my opinion about this in 4 simple sentences:

1) When a game has a gameplayability value over 150h, it is a game worth its price.
2) It is normal to eventually grow bored of any game, no matter how good it is.
3) I have played more than 6 weeks to the game. Which in hours is over 1000h.
4) Elite: Dangerous IS a good game.

Still worth improving? Certainly. But to say "I want Elite to succeed" is an understatement: Elite: Dangerous has already succeeded.

What you say is true, but Elite is a living breathing MMO according to its advertising etc,

Instead what Elite is turning out to be is and barebones game, that is becoming more fully furnished release title with each update.

Elite is indeed a fantastic game, If you buy it today, and play it for 150 hrs you will be well served and satisfied, but Elite cant be measured with with that yardstick.

Backers that bought the game "way back when" play for 150 hours and must be satisfied? whereas the person that buys today plays for 150 hours and gets a much better experience.

Elite isnt a single player game, it doesnt have a, "after 150 hours you must be satisfied you got your money's worth and move on" vibe, its an ongoing MMO/Multiplayer online game,

it needs to cater to old, current and new players on an ongoing basis...


Lets take Witcher 3, that also has 100ish hours in the base game.... Imagine they brought out the Expansion Hearts and stone... and all they added was some more swords and a new monster or 2.... People would revolt, the expansion must come with new missions, more story, more stuff to do, expand on your current savegame.... not expect you to wipe your save.


Elite is currently putting things into the game that look good on the feature list when selling the game to new Consumers... but leaving their old consumers to... well complain on the forum.

When updating the game, they need to think.... Right... I've been playing the game for ~1000 hours (avg for a seasoned player).... what can we put in the game that will add value to Johnny thousand hours that has done x y and z 100 times over.

What we get now is a turret mode where Johnny thousand hours can sit in a friends ship and do the same thing he has done to death, but now from a different view..

See what I'm getting at?

 

[M. Volgrand]

What you say is true, but Elite is a living breathing MMO according to its advertising etc,

Instead what Elite is turning out to be is and barebones game, that is becoming more fully furnished release title with each update.

Elite is indeed a fantastic game, If you buy it today, and play it for 150 hrs you will be well served and satisfied, but Elite cant be measured with with that yardstick.

Backers that bought the game "way back when" play for 150 hours and must be satisfied? whereas the person that buys today plays for 150 hours and gets a much better experience.

Elite isnt a single player game, it doesnt have a, "after 150 hours you must be satisfied you got your money's worth and move on" vibe, its an ongoing MMO/Multiplayer online game,

it needs to cater to old, current and new players on an ongoing basis...


Lets take Witcher 3, that also has 100ish hours in the base game.... Imagine they brought out the Expansion Hearts and stone... and all they added was some more swords and a new monster or 2.... People would revolt, the expansion must come with new missions, more story, more stuff to do, expand on your current savegame.... not expect you to wipe your save.


Elite is currently putting things into the game that look good on the feature list when selling the game to new Consumers... but leaving their old consumers to... well complain on the forum.

When updating the game, they need to think.... Right... I've been playing the game for ~1000 hours (avg for a seasoned player).... what can we put in the game that will add value to Johnny thousand hours that has done x y and z 100 times over.

What we get now is a turret mode where Johnny thousand hours can sit in a friends ship and do the same thing he has done to death, but now from a different view..

See what I'm getting at?

I can quite agree with the points that I would love to see a major update. Multicrew is certainly game changing, and having tried it, it is fun as hell.
I would actually love to see a major update focused on piracy or exploration. That would be a game changer that would give many new ways to play.

Actually Frontier is more focused on the galactic mysteires (aliens, ruins, etc), and I understand that: A great deal of the player based have been wandering around the canonn and the formidine threads, so they have focused on that. However they should give some weight to other aspects of gameplay.

So yeah, we can find some common grounds in our views of the game

 

[Alec Turner]

I normally read these kind of threads with trepidation but actually that's a nicely written post OP - repped!

I don't know that I have much to add to this discussion really. I've been playing since beta and thought I'd happily keep playing this game throughout it's 10yr development program and beyond (sorry, can't back that up with any specific FD citation but hopefully you know what I mean). However, I'm starting to suspect this might not be true. As with a lot of things in life (e.g. haven't picked up my guitar in many many months - thought that would be a lifetime hobby [perhaps ED partly to blame?]; A brilliant "Gig Club" that I started about 6yrs ago? fizzled out.) I think we (as humans) naturally get tired of doing the same thing (even if it's great) for years on end (months or even a couple of years? no problem ... but many many years? that's a different proposition). I used to bemoan FD's development plan and their ongoing introduction of brand new big features (Powerplay, CGs, Engineers, Multi-crew - many of which I wasn't that interested in) wishing instead that they would focus on making lots of QoL improvements and fixes for the game we already had. But now I'm starting to see that they were probably right. If they don't look to the future and try to add big new features, then I will get bored of the base game (it's starting to happen, I can feel it). They have a tough job. I think they're trying HARD to 2nd guess what will keep us playing. Powerplay is a terrific example of this. I can see how on paper that should have worked. They'd given us a physical galaxy, now they wanted to introduce us to it's politics. It just didn't work, and I'm not sure why. Similarly the idea of Galnet news and the ongoing back story of its leading characters and factions should have been engaging. But somewhow it wasn't and, in recent weeks and months, Galnet has really fizzled out (as evidenced by Pete Wotherspoon's Galnet News roundups which have been forced to break the 4th wall and start talking about stuff outside the game - slow news week? - more like no news week(s)).

I'm rambling.

Would developing the things we already have (like the mission system or the exploration mechanics) help? It might. But then again it might not. Tragic tho' it is to say, perhaps it's not possible to create a game that can truly engage the average human for more than a few years.

I don't have any answers I'm afraid but I haven't given up ... yet.

 

[Ddraig]

Boring is a subjective appreciation.

 

[Jason S]

FD cannot afford to make it the game the OP wants, so the only way they could do it is to franchise the Elite Galaxy. I mean still have one Elite Galaxy but allow third party developers to create and craft interesting and unique PROPER MISSIONS. If they did that it could be DLC and both FD and the third party developers would get a share.

Other than that I do not believe FD will ever have the man power to create the type of game I am thinking the OP wants.

Also FD have their eyes on other pies and if this game ever became thought of as a money pit...

 

[Jason S]

We wants... OP is no lonely.

Well yes it would be nice to have interesting and unique content that is not obviously procedural generated, right now it would require hundreds of people to create it over years. The only way we could be swamped with content would be mods or what I already suggested. Mods however are probably not going to happen as the game is multiplayer only. Perhaps volunteer mods to FD to vet and for them to plug in, but FD would need to create a lot of tools for that.

 

[iFred]

go to eve online... I am very critic with elite dangerous and FD... but the solution is not to made elite like eve online... NO THANKS BUT NO THANKS! I want contents made for players by the FD... no contents made by some group of players or sandbox emergent contents bla bla. NO EVE ONLINE HERE... put that in your and all minds.

So let me get that right - you are AGAINST content in Elite Dangerous? Actually it´s done by FD, and despite some CG´s we don´t see any "living" content in the game at the moment. Even the CG´s are at least 50 % player driven.

I think we all agree that "content" in ED needs to emerge over the next months. And we should also agree that we (the playerbase) will consume any content done by FD faster than they will ever be able to implement, even if 1000 devs are working on it.

So why should we not "help" FD with bringing some content towards the playerbase? the only argument I see is that FD will give away some control over the game, but when this is done properly it should work. The only thing we dont need is playergroups determing the outcome of the storyline.

Did anyone of you guys play WWIIonline back a couple of thousand years ago? The game was crap, but the "Command Chain" was implemented very well. It could be an idea to use this to bring some more gameplay into the game.

Or production chains: Wouldnt it be cool to see production chains ingame? Starting with mining from manufacturing to selling? It´s a complex thing, but hey - it keeps people playing.

Just ideas though.

 

[Astirian]

So, you will finish this "goal" and "storyline" in 20-30 hours. And wat's next?

Made me think of this lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM_NBneiogo

But seriously, when my warlock hit level 60 back in the day and I earned my fiery death horse, it was amazing. I had done a lot of repetitive stuff along the way sure (just as in ED), but the game took me to weird and wonderful places and I really enjoyed the storylines getting there. It sure as $h|t didn't take me 20-30 hours either!

I guess what I'm saying is, I didn't really feel the grind & fetch quests & kill # missions (mostly) because the setting and lore were rich and lively. If I got bored with the day-to-day, I'd spice it up with a dungeon run. I guess CZs are the sort of placeholder for those. I wanna see a team of players having to escort bomber wings as they make runs on one of the CQC assets. I want to help capital ships neutralise military convoys, I want to rush to the defence of a megaship etc...

In fact, scrap the USS system altogether and make them all mission types.

ED is a fantastic multi-player sequel to Elite. It will be a fantastic sequel to Frontier once atmospheres are in (and military recon photo missions, oh God, the dream). It will be an amazing sequel to First Encounters with more unique (less grindy!) missions offered to us. And it will be one of the best games in the history of games once we get more in-depth mechanics and tools across the various professions.

I guess/hope it's just taking a while because of the roadmap.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

So let me get that right - you are AGAINST content in Elite Dangerous? Actually it´s done by FD, and despite some CG´s we don´t see any "living" content in the game at the moment. Even the CG´s are at least 50 % player driven.

I think we all agree that "content" in ED needs to emerge over the next months. And we should also agree that we (the playerbase) will consume any content done by FD faster than they will ever be able to implement, even if 1000 devs are working on it.

So why should we not "help" FD with bringing some content towards the playerbase? the only argument I see is that FD will give away some control over the game, but when this is done properly it should work. The only thing we dont need is playergroups determing the outcome of the storyline.

Did anyone of you guys play WWIIonline back a couple of thousand years ago? The game was crap, but the "Command Chain" was implemented very well. It could be an idea to use this to bring some more gameplay into the game.

Or production chains: Wouldnt it be cool to see production chains ingame? Starting with mining from manufacturing to selling? It´s a complex thing, but hey - it keeps people playing.

Just ideas though.

To be clear. In my opinion player generated content is having a lot of Problems. Starting with definition on Design rules that are maintained AND followed but I aggree that
any created contend will be consumed above Lightspeed and you will find someone telling you that it is boring like hell.

Nevertheless I love the idea of Production chains, but for this you need to start earlier. You need a market where everything can be traded. Today there are minable metals and minerals,but can sell to the station but you can't buy. That will hinder production chains. Same is for mission related commodities or data items. There is a market for it but
the market isn't maintained today. Start here to run Production chains and trading will change a lot.

Command Chains are imagniable to me if done correctly and evolving military duty contracts you can pledge for. Then there can be a command chain otherwise I do not see it really.


Regards,
Miklos

 

[Pocketstealer]

Don't know what game you are playing but I find Elite Dangerous fun and immersive.

After all OP that is your own point of view, it doesn't include my own about the game.

When you break down any game it is all the same set of instructions, even games like Mass Effect or GTA V. Go to X location to pick up Y object to deliver it to person A. Along the way get attacked by faction C and try to escape. Deliver goods, get reward and move on to do it all over again just with new wording.

How many fetch and kill quests are in games like World of Warcraft and Everquest? Yet people still play these games and level up new characters each and every month or year. It is all the same though when looked at in black and white. Just that Elite Dangerous is a far bigger game world than any of those I have mentioned.

For me Elite Dangerous is a means to escape into a different lifestyle, something I will never have the chance at doing ever; in fact none of us will. The more realistic the galaxy is the better for me and the more I want to be a part of the game and play it. I am never forced to do the missions to gain money within the game either. There is no exp just my own ability to pilot my ship. Elite Dangerous was never about a heroic protagonist like you have in Mass Effect or the Witcher games, it is not about the massive corporations or alliances like we see in Eve Online either. It is about you as a person and whether you have what it takes to survive in the galaxy on your own.

I know some players though have abused the smuggling and rares in the game and so have vast quantities of money and now finding the game boring and dull, that is their own fault though and not the game. Some even say if you can't make XXX amount of millions per hour then its not worth doing. I say rubbish, if you find it fun then it is always worth doing.

The best escape I get in the game from the norm is to just get a ship with a SRV some cargo room and head out into the unknown and land on planets just to salvage POI that I find and then return to civilized space to sell it. Sometimes I make a huge profit with the exploration data and salvage sometimes I don't.

I think the player made bases are still in the pipeline for development but they are a long way off, same with walking around.
There is still a lot more to add to the game such as atmospheric flight, gas giant cloud cities, dark solar systems that have no sun etc, etc.

The game is a living breathing thing and it does have to grow, but this can't be done over night because you demand it. Also why should Frontier Development listen to just you and your cronies on other forums? Personally I like the direction the game is going in right now and having a whale of a time when I play the game.

I never asked for multicrew or Engineers but I accept them all the same and can see how they can add to the game experience. I probably won't use multi crew at all though, but doesn't mean to say I can't see the benefit to it or say it should be removed because I don't like it.

See here? See it? Thats why i cannot take people seriously....

It compares Sandbox game that you need your own immersion with a full blown story, with choices, romance, choices, biome changes, A G STORY people cried,raged because of the ending....(Mass Effect for example or GTA)...

She/HE compares this basic game to a AAA that made millions and will have 4 games out on the franchise +
"Roleplaying Game of the Year at the 2008 D.I.C.E. Awards,[82] and Best RPG at the IGN Best of 2007 Awards.[83] In addition, The New York Times selected Mass Effect as its Game of the Year.[84] In 2008, IGN editors ranked the game number 1 on their list of Top 25 Xbox 360 games".

How can you even compare??? Whats next, ELiteangerous is more immersive and RPG than Witcher 3? More famous than Skyrim?

He/She even goes on about comparing World of Warcraft a 13 year MMORPG that is based on BOOKS.... a story, with a villain as Arthas where people enjoy talking... i can't even ... just ... what is this? How can you compare? World of Warcraft is the biggest MMORPG in terms of Content.... (search it it's there).

I am just done with this forum fanboyism it just reaks of ..

God this fanboyism will be the death of this game... At least there are games now and i can leave this game aside for a loooooong time.

OP i guess you didn't come to the right place to say bad things about this game.

 

[Kizbot]

I read your post OP and couldn't just brush over the part where you say 2300 hours and counting. I mean, you must recognise that is a lot. Right?

I really enjoyed Skyrim and Fallout4 but after about 1000 hours in each I couldn't do much more. I have experienced many times in life that there is such a thing as 'too much of a good thing'. I enjoyed going on holiday to the carribean, I spent 2 weeks there and it was absolutely lovely. Would I want to live there? permenantly? No, I'd get sick of it. I love making chicken burgers for dinner, Yum yum yum! Spicy southern fried chicken with onions, lettuce, cheese and Raggae Reggae Sauce mmmmmmm.... Every day though? Forever? nooo noooo nooooooo
I am a firm believer that the key to life is learning moderation of the things you like and forcing variety in at the same time.

I always like the saying, you can't appreciate the sugar without having tasted the salt. There is so much more to the games industry than just Elite and this is coming from a VR user where IMO Elite is still the best VR game on the market.

The suggestion that Elite is not the game for you is ubsurd, considering you have put in that many hours, but seriously, you need to switch it up a bit and play something else.

 

[Blackcompany]

Yep forge your own path where nothing ever changes. I'm hostile is literally hundreds of systems= nothing happens, I'm wanted in dozens more= nothing happens, I have murdered and pillaged in countless systems that my name is dreaded and whispered in bars all over ,... no actually I just dock ,pay off my fines and I'm clean.... I have a ship that is capable of traversing the known galaxy but I can't target or scan multiple things at the same time (we can do that now), I can't even tell siri to put a bookmark on a planet surface anymore (must have been apple OS 3020 that took out that functionality out) believe me back in the 80's I was just happy I could fly around in space but it's 30 years later everything has changed apart from this game.

I mean I can run literally every mission available become king of the empire and it means nothing, I get to buy a ship that I can then fly around empire space and kill lots of people and then just pay off the cops and I'm clean... just weird.

You nailed it.

This isn't a game. It's a tech demo. The flight model is the only polished, complete mechanic in the game, and even the boost portion of that still sucks.

 

[Rodafowa]

You know, people might not like my lack of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.. Too bad.

I said I wanted discussion and I CLEARLY articulated the type of posts I did not want to see. EVERY thread that someone tries to state an OPINION they have in their own words, is either 1) Hi-jacked by a few loud over the top fanboys leading to the thread dying, OR 2) you get people telling the poster he said what he said wrong.. for his OWN opinion.

I mean... when the sort of people who put POLITICAL CORRECTNESS in capital letters complain about POLITICAL CORRECTNESS, isn't "someone trying to police the tone of a discussion to suit themselves and characterising anyone who disagrees with them in even the mildest, politest terms as "over-the-top fanboys" or children who can't have an adult discussion" the sort of thing they're on about?

Dude. You're not being a bold truth-teller standing against people trying to bully you out of your opinion. You're just being a bit overbearing and overreaching and extrapolating your experience to the player-base as a whole and getting a bit precious and whiny when people some point out that no, actually, what you're saying is a subjective opinion not an objective fact.

 

[Enderby]

You nailed it.

This isn't a game. It's a tech demo. The flight model is the only polished, complete mechanic in the game, and even the boost portion of that still sucks.

YOU nailed it there! So true. Such a shame

 

[Whitehair]

YOU nailed it there! So true. Such a shame

Guys - get a room, this is embarrassing in public!

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

I can quite agree with the points that I would love to see a major update. Multicrew is certainly game changing, and having tried it, it is fun as hell.
I would actually love to see a major update focused on piracy or exploration. That would be a game changer that would give many new ways to play.

Actually Frontier is more focused on the galactic mysteires (aliens, ruins, etc), and I understand that: A great deal of the player based have been wandering around the canonn and the formidine threads, so they have focused on that. However they should give some weight to other aspects of gameplay.

So yeah, we can find some common grounds in our views of the game

I'm glad and appreciate that we have have the same good wishes for Elite, I only want it to get better and I want Frontier to make the game that they want to make with the depth and fidelity that was spoken about in the kickstarter,

It almost feels like they are backed into a corner and are fighting to just give us the basics of what was promised (basically just ticking the boxes),

I would rather they give us a theme of the coming expansion, Like World of Warcraft does... and surprise us with each patch closer to the time... that way they can develop with much more fluidity.

Regarding Multicrew... it is tonnes of fun indeed, but I would love if they added the following to enhance the usability of the group finder

at the moment you can just pick an activity and get put in a random ship.... choose bounty hunting and you may be put in an Adder with no turrets,

as a "Seeking crew" player with a multicrew ship, you should be able to tick the box for the activity you want to do, then give a short description,

"ASP X Exploring neutron stars near SAG A"

then as a "Ship seeker" you can choose where to go.. and not just have to play hop in/hop out till you find a ship and environment that suites you.

this is my wishlist when comparing Elites group finder to other group finders I have come across in the past,

 

[Jason S]

I realized a long time ago that FD could not do on their own what a GOD could do.

After that I just see and enjoy the game for what it is and manage my expectations accordingly.

I am a software developer and really I am guessing their code base is now absolutely horrendously complex.

 

[shadragon]

I have been part of a number of discussions lately, many outside these official forums. And I have found those discussions are all regarding one thing.. Elite and how many players have either given up and no longer play or those rarely doing so and thinking about it.

If people leave, then the game isn't for them. We don't change things to be popular or to satisfy those with limited attention spans (Which does nothing regardless in their case.)

or it is time for me to move on and leave it all behind for good.

With zero specific criticisms in your post, this is just a bash thread disguised as a discussion. You don't like things, fine. Make specific posts with what you find lacking and discussion will follow. "Boring" isn't a valid comment. That just means this game isn't for you. You're bored, say there's nothing to the game but 'pretty graphics, basic flight mechanics and a whole buttload of canned scripted missions' then say your post is because you love the game(?) Wee bit contradictory there.

Ultimatums only work if you are willing to see them through.