Ice/Water Mining: Why is this not a HUGE Part of the Elite Universe

[Blackcompany]

Think about it: Millions of people, living on stations. In space. O2, and H2O, both extremely valuable commodities in such circumstances. I mean, sure, some stations could sustain sufficient green areas to supply their own renewable air. Some. But none of them could provide limitless, renewable water resources, and smaller hub stations would struggle with green areas and renewable O2 to boot.

So why is Ice/Water mining and transportation not a HUGE, lucrative part of this universe? It would almost NEED to be. We should be able to find jobs offering extra pay for the delivery of Ice or transport of Water to almost any station, any time. Ice and Water should be a huge deal in this galaxy.

And while we are on the topic of huge parts of the economy: Metals. ALL ships, all stations, need upkeep and maintenance. And given the prevalence of artificial dwellings in space, these should be in demand jobs - the obtaining of metals and refined metal based products, as well as passenger missions carrying repair workers and maintenance personnel to and from major and more remote stations.

I would suggest using the mission system to implement this. Then we can tack on Player Contracts. Miners could contract Haulers to deliver stuff to stations for a Cut. Either of them could contract Escorts to guard the mining ops, either for a set duration or a run, and share a cut of profits.

Just a suggestion, but I think that the Ice and Water thing, at least, ought to be a really big deal in universe.

Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Absolutely right.

There are missions for many of the minable minerals and metals, but for the most part the boards are taken over by meth-mono missions. I would like to see a greater variety of mining missions made available.

 

[Ben Ryder]

Agreed. I see methno mono request lots. Not sure why and I think it comes down to they added ice mining and a new material and moved on.

 

[knowles2]

Think about it: Millions of people, living on stations. In space. O2, and H2O, both extremely valuable commodities in such circumstances. I mean, sure, some stations could sustain sufficient green areas to supply their own renewable air. Some. But none of them could provide limitless, renewable water resources, and smaller hub stations would struggle with green areas and renewable O2 to boot.

So why is Ice/Water mining and transportation not a HUGE, lucrative part of this universe? It would almost NEED to be. We should be able to find jobs offering extra pay for the delivery of Ice or transport of Water to almost any station, any time. Ice and Water should be a huge deal in this galaxy.

And while we are on the topic of huge parts of the economy: Metals. ALL ships, all stations, need upkeep and maintenance. And given the prevalence of artificial dwellings in space, these should be in demand jobs - the obtaining of metals and refined metal based products, as well as passenger missions carrying repair workers and maintenance personnel to and from major and more remote stations.

I would suggest using the mission system to implement this. Then we can tack on Player Contracts. Miners could contract Haulers to deliver stuff to stations for a Cut. Either of them could contract Escorts to guard the mining ops, either for a set duration or a run, and share a cut of profits.

Just a suggestion, but I think that the Ice and Water thing, at least, ought to be a really big deal in universe.

Thoughts?

Absolutely right.

There are missions for many of the minable minerals and metals, but for the most part the boards are taken over by meth-mono missions. I would like to see a greater variety of mining missions made available.

Sorry to be the arsehole that says it but he is 100% wrong.

This is what we can achieve with technology use on the ISS, https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2000/ast02nov_1, I'm sure with 1300 years worth of development our water systems would be capable of conserving 95% or higher amount of water in a self enclose environmental systems, which means water could be replace by just food shipments alone.

Real life does make the universe a boring place.

Through ice mining or more likely comet mining, where crews divert comets to crash into planets as part of terraforming them is a possible career path frontier could add to the game.

Of cause stations during construction would need a delivery of water for life support systems to get them going, so perhaps they can add that as one of the criterias that a fraction has to meet to get a station online.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

I think it comes down to they added ice mining and a new material and moved on.

That's what it looks like to me too. The ore percentage in pristine icy rings is pathetic, barely a third of metallic. Most of the ores are nearly worthless. The one ore that is worth something is so rare as to be nearly a legend. And even materials are barely present in ice roids.

 

[RamirezKurita]

It's not lucrative because ice asteroids aren't made of water ice. Or liquid oxygen, or methanol crystals or any indeed other volatiles known to man. It makes me wonder what a depleted ice asteroid is actually made of considering how the stuff you mine in ice rings is the stuff that would be considered the worthless filler from any other type of asteroid.

 

[Armia]

Interplanetary/intersystem travel costs peanuts in Elite Universe. Seeing that most of the larger freighters can carry hundreds of tons of cargo at a time, I doubt water would be treated as specifically precious over other commodities. FYR, an average American consumes ~300 liters of water daily. That means if a single Cutter is hauling water to a station 3 times a day, it can support 7,500 people living on that station with enough water for them to drink, shower, water their gardens and probably also fill their zero-g swimming pools with.

Plus, there are freighter mega-ships present in Elite lore that carry humongous amount of cargo around the bubble, they're just not depicted in the current version of the game client yet.

 

[Blackcompany]

Fair points all. Sometimes realism sucks, don't it?

Seriously, though, I would like to see missions reflect the needs of a system to a greater degree than they do now, with current state changing things up more.

Also: would love too see freighters and other huge ships regularly. Flew through a fleet and alongside my freighter last night in NMS, and the sense of scale that created...Wow. Imagine that, with Elite graphics and sound.

 

[Hfarl]

an average American consumes ~300 liters of water daily.

I'm not sure that's an accurate figure. If so, I'm WAAAY below average (and probably rather dehydrated). Unless that refers to overall per-person water usage (showers, etc), and not just the actual consumption/drinking.

Interesting discussion though!

 

[RamirezKurita]

I'm not sure that's an accurate figure. If so, I'm WAAAY below average (and probably rather dehydrated). Unless that refers to overall per-person water usage (showers, etc), and not just the actual consumption/drinking.

Interesting discussion though!

As far as I know that figure includes literally everything the population uses water for, not just domestic uses. Once you factor in things like farming, manufacturing, electricity generation and swimming pools, the number adds up pretty quickly.

 

[Kubicide]

Think about it: Millions of people, living on stations. In space. O2, and H2O, both extremely valuable commodities in such circumstances. I mean, sure, some stations could sustain sufficient green areas to supply their own renewable air. Some. But none of them could provide limitless, renewable water resources, and smaller hub stations would struggle with green areas and renewable O2 to boot.

So why is Ice/Water mining and transportation not a HUGE, lucrative part of this universe? It would almost NEED to be. We should be able to find jobs offering extra pay for the delivery of Ice or transport of Water to almost any station, any time. Ice and Water should be a huge deal in this galaxy.

And while we are on the topic of huge parts of the economy: Metals. ALL ships, all stations, need upkeep and maintenance. And given the prevalence of artificial dwellings in space, these should be in demand jobs - the obtaining of metals and refined metal based products, as well as passenger missions carrying repair workers and maintenance personnel to and from major and more remote stations.

I would suggest using the mission system to implement this. Then we can tack on Player Contracts. Miners could contract Haulers to deliver stuff to stations for a Cut. Either of them could contract Escorts to guard the mining ops, either for a set duration or a run, and share a cut of profits.

Just a suggestion, but I think that the Ice and Water thing, at least, ought to be a really big deal in universe.

Thoughts?

All good points OP. And another thing that simply takes away the sense of any realism in the game and takes it more towards the arcade nature. Things that make sense and would be expected are simply ignored or not supported. Water is a great example as it's usually one of the most prominent and important 'things' in other space games. In Elite it's something that's pretty much ignored. But hey, we have holo-me now - woot!!!

 

[Armia]

I'm not sure that's an accurate figure. If so, I'm WAAAY below average (and probably rather dehydrated). Unless that refers to overall per-person water usage (showers, etc), and not just the actual consumption/drinking.

Interesting discussion though!

Here's the source.

http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=757

It turns out I was a bit off about American water consumption - an average American consumed a whopping 575 liters of water per day in 2002 - followed by 493 liters Australians consumed and 386 liters for Italians.

But citizens of other - more sensible - nations consumed much less than that, and I believe the medium is around 200 or 250 liters per day (not counting water-deprived, poorer countries). That includes all household water usage, including showers, baths, lawns, dishwashers, laundry etc.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

It turns out I was a bit off about American water consumption - an average American consumed a whopping 575 liters of water per month in 2002

Still out. I think you mean per day.

 

[Whitehair]

Space stations are not like planets.

When you shower or flush the toilet on a planet the used water just vanishes effectively from your point of view. Actually it gets taken to sewerage farms for cleaning and recycling.

This is the point. When you flush the toilet on a space station, the water (and other contaminents ) aren't ejected from the station to float around outside as lumps of ice. They have to be cleaned and recycled. Which in turn means that the requirement for new clean water is fulfilled by the stations in a closed system via recycling. So - there is no need for a vast traffic in ice and water. Once per station to fill up the reservoirs, then the station is practically self sufficient.

 

[Huros]

I whinged about increasing the value of mined commodities years ago. The whole trade price system needs to be free market much more. Shortages should REALLY increase costs and vice versa. I would have had a multiple of x 5 for all mined materials. Increase mining profit. And then piracy, bounty hunting and PVP follows. But it also needs a more developed PVP/crime and punishment system which I have also whinged about years ago.

 

[Armia]

Still out. I think you mean per day.

Lol, yes, I meant day, not month.