Community Goals open overload

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Y'see, this is the sort of "lowest common denominator" logic that can end up ruining an online game.

If a thing is possible in a game then some people will do it and the only way to counter that thing is to indulge in the same thing yourself, which means you can't do other things instead and it ends up with that thing being the only thing you can safely do in the game.

Which is why there's always a "best gun" to have in multiplayer FPSs and a "best car" to have in multiplayer acing games etc.

Trouble is, in an FPSs and racing games, there's only ONE objective and everybody's trying to achieve the same thing so it's not such a big deal.
In a game like ED, where some people might be traders, some people might be miners and some people might be explorers, if the only way to ensure your survival is to "git gud" at PvP then I'm afraid all those other facets of gameplay are going to have to go and we're all just going to have to buy tooled-up FdLs and shoot at each other for a few months, until we find a different game.

Rep!

Although, "Getting Good at PvP" doesn't mean you need to fly an FDL in PvP meta battles spec.
It just means not flying a min/max trader with paper (or no) shields, and paper hull.

I'm terrible at PvP, yet I've only succumb to an unexpected attack once. And i mostly blamed my old gamepad for cutting out for 2 seconds at a critical time (when i wanted to boost!), although, it was all over in 6 seconds anyway, so i doubt it would have made much difference. Lol
But being a sitting duck probably didn't help matters.

So I've "gotten good" by replacing my old gamepad with a new one. Lol

 

[withnail]

I really enjoyed the CG last night, what are you complaining about.

I got through in a weakly shielded anaconda and was interdicted twice. Wing mate helped out with the first instance until it borked, but was good fun.

The station was only 15 ls for goodness sake.

 

[Fire Dragon]

I really enjoyed the CG last night, what are you complaining about.

I got through in a weakly shielded anaconda and was interdicted twice. Wing mate helped out with the first instance until it borked, but was good fun.

The station was only 15 ls for goodness sake.

Nobody is complaining, it's a suggestion.
I fly a 3000mj cutter doing over 430, I don't have many issues. Sometimes I give cargo to pirate, sometimes I'll jump away, it's not a fighting ship but if I'm in one I'll fight. It's NOTabout me......is about to many in 1 CG making instancing bad, and making gameplay more possible by spreading it out a bit.
I'm not suggesting 50 Cgs at a time, but a few, like a motorway with 3 lanes easing the flow....You could even just a 2 or 3 different delivery systems.

 

[Stealthie]

Rep!

Although, "Getting Good at PvP" doesn't mean you need to fly an FDL in PvP meta battles spec.
It just means not flying a min/max trader with paper (or no) shields, and paper hull.

I'm terrible at PvP, yet I've only succumb to an unexpected attack once. And i mostly blamed my old gamepad for cutting out for 2 seconds at a critical time (when i wanted to boost!), although, it was all over in 6 seconds anyway, so i doubt it would have made much difference. Lol
But being a sitting duck probably didn't help matters.

So I've "gotten good" by replacing my old gamepad with a new one. Lol

To be clear, I'm not totally against PvP or anything.

It's just that if you have a game which offers you a variety of different options but then creates a situation where one option can "overpower" all the others without finding any way to regulate that situation then you are going to risk alienating all the players who don't choose that particular option.

By way of analogy, it's a bit like somebody creating a racing game which combines F1 cars, road cars, lorries, 4x4s and a demolition derby.
If the demolition derby cars can smash up all the others, people are going to realise that their only choices will be to drive a demolition derby car themselves or just hope that they don't ever meet one in-game.

 

[Surprised Brony]

What's wrong with murder? Random killing is an intended part of the game.

OP wants less PK'ers? I say he needs to GIT GUD.

Quick turn around from a normal and indifferent CMDR to "Git Gud". What was it, a couple of weeks?

Random killing can and should happen, yeah, but having to run through a CG like its the walking dead just because you want to play in open? I'm sure there are those who don't like it. I know some people like a rush, but some can only take so much adrenaline before it fuels rage instead of excitement.

If you ask me, we need heightened system security during a CG. At least until Crime & Punishment get reworked. Risk should go both ways. As for anarchy systems, the name says it all. It's anarchy. Expect chaos.

 

[jasonbarron]

What's wrong with murder? Random killing is an intended part of the game.

OP wants less PK'ers? I say he needs to GIT GUD.

There are certain times when suggesting a player hone their skills is appropriate, but this certainly isn't one of them. What the OP brought up has nothing to do with their skills, and everything to do with their taste and preference of gameplay experience.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Oh the old get good comment...has to be one, don't you just love these small minded replies.

Why else do you want less people at CG's? Only logical explanation I can think of is that you don't want to work to get better. I'm saying this because you are essentially asking for CG's to be made safer by population dilution.

That stinks of an attitude of "I want max rewards with less risk."

Newsflash: CG's are meant to be dangerous. If you don't want the risk then play in Solo. Nobody is stopping you do that. But please, let those of us who enjoy a good cluster truck of mayhem at CG's in Open... Let us keep that. I'm not chastising you for playing in Solo, but let us PvP'ers have something. CG's are the only reliable source we have!

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Quick turn around from a normal and indifferent CMDR to "Git Gud". What was it, a couple of weeks?

Random killing can and should happen, yeah, but having to run through a CG like its the walking dead just because you want to play in open? I'm sure there are those who don't like it. I know some people like a rush, but some can only take so much adrenaline before it fuels rage instead of excitement.

If you ask me, we need heightened system security during a CG. At least until Crime & Punishment get reworked. Risk should go both ways. As for anarchy systems, the name says it all. It's anarchy. Expect chaos.

In that short time, I've seen a lot. There's an agenda from much of the community to "destroy PvP". I know because I used to support that agenda. But frankly, when you actually dip your toes in PvP you realise it's harmless fun. You're not going to get a big man knock on your door for losing ED PvP.

The thing is, as already said, the OP is pretty much asking for CG's to be made safer and less risky by way of population dilution. Frankly I think that's incredibly selfish. PvP is barely hanging on in this game, but it is in fact, an extremely fun activity on those rare occasions that everyone plays cool.

Looking, I'm not complaining about Solo. If you want to use it, use it. Anyone who claims I'm "against Solo" doesn't know this forum very well. However for those of us who like Open for the risk it offers... We'd like to keep that risk. Please don't dilute it.

 

[shadragon]

People never seem to bother me in my Cobra.

Most can't catch a stripped down Cobra MK III.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Most can't catch a stripped down Cobra MK III.

Exactly my point. Ship choices are very important in Open. Expecting the nearly God mode that Solo/PG offers, and flying bad ships... That gets you killed.

My Cobra has a lot of sacrifice made so it can survive in Open. Namely less cargo, which means less profit.

 

[Fire Dragon]

Why else do you want less people at CG's? Only logical explanation I can think of is that you don't want to work to get better. I'm saying this because you are essentially asking for CG's to be made safer by population dilution.

That stinks of an attitude of "I want max rewards with less risk."

Newsflash: CG's are meant to be dangerous. If you don't want the risk then play in Solo. Nobody is stopping you do that. But please, let those of us who enjoy a good cluster truck of mayhem at CG's in Open... Let us keep that. I'm not chastising you for playing in Solo, but let us PvP'ers have something. CG's are the only reliable source we have!

You're wrong, and need to read, not read between the lines. I'm not only trading at cgs I go there for pvp also. If you go there for pvp or maybe ganking is your preference who knows you will know the trouble that so many cmdrs in 1 system causes to instances. Whether they would be safer?? Not sure about that.

 

[Roland2]

Anyone taking part in a CG will most probably do them in PG or Solo unless they are looking for PvP, or a challenge, which is a shame but understandable as these systems become a focus point for gankers, griefers, pirates and people generally looking to fight. A simple solution would be to have more CG's happening at once, this would disperse the threat and possibly bring more players into open for a slightly less challenging option. This would also spread out the people taking part so some alteration in the CG target may be needed, but it would help in the overload sometimes of instancing with to many cmdrs in one system.

I understand these systems give the folk looking for pvp a focus point and don't want to take that away from them, so maybe there could be some way of providing a focus point for this away from the CG's or included in some way (don't know how)?

I enjoy doing CG's, and mostly I will do them in open, but sometimes there are just so many CMDR's looking to pirate me, kill me for no reason, ram me at a station (what mind set is this!!?) that it really makes it no fun, and switching at this point is the only option. So just thinking of options.

What do you think?

I think if you don't want to play in open, don't play in open. That seams easy enough.

 

[askavir]

I disagree.

The major point of CGs is bringing people together to accomplish a common goal. Its the only places where I can see a constant stream of player ships going in an out of stations. Local chat at a station also gives it some kind of a space bar theme. Spreading CGs all around would undermine this, and an empty CG is no CG, just regular missions/trading/bounty farming with a different title.

It's true that CGs sometimes attract some people looking for "fights" where they're 100% sure losing is impossible, but with minimal preparation and attention escaping becomes trivial and it becomes a non-issue.

 

[Watchdog]

But frankly, when you actually dip your toes in PvP you realise it's harmless fun.

And that is where you fail with your arguments miserably.

No, PvP is not fun for me (and I am quite certain it is the same for many others), since equipping a ship for PvP, and changing my playstyle completely to match it, means I cannot properly do and enjoy the other things the game offers. And that is exactly where the game stops being fun for me.

The only thing you actually achieve with that mindset is driving even more people away from Open.

 

[Tel Prydain]

I'm not chastising you for playing in Solo, but let us PvP'ers have something. CG's are the only reliable source we have!

So rather than organise a place for PvP'ers to do PvP, your solution is to go someplace people aren't interested in PvP and subject them to it?
It's almost like you're just looking to shoot people who can't fight back, rather than looking for a real fight.


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My biggest gripe is the continued assertion from the PvP crowd that the solo option is akin to selecting 'deathmatch' in Call of Duty. I'm signing up to both friendly and hostile actions that are based on in-game roleplaying (pirates and blockades are great, ganking and ramming are not); not signing up to be a punching-bag.
I always submit and wait for instructions - Ideally a cargo demand or demand to leave the system... at which point I'll negotiate my passage. If that person starts shooting at me WITHOUT communication... well... I'm engineered Cutter, so that's no skin off my nose. But prior to getting god-mode (particularity during the heat meta), if someone tried to light me up without any communication, they might well have seen my ship vanish.
Again, combat is fine - and I'm happy to eat a rebuy if I fail to dump cargo or try (and fail) to run a blockade... but the key is the communication that gives context to your actions.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

So rather than organise a place for PvP'ers to do PvP, your solution is to go someplace people aren't interested in PvP and subject them to it?
It's almost like you're just looking to shoot people who can't fight back, rather than looking for a real fight.


===========================


My biggest gripe is the continued assertion from the PvP crowd that the solo option is akin to selecting 'deathmatch' in Call of Duty. I'm signing up to both friendly and hostile actions that are based on in-game roleplaying (pirates and blockades are great, ganking and ramming are not); not signing up to be a punching-bag.
I always submit and wait for instructions - Ideally a cargo demand or demand to leave the system... at which point I'll negotiate my passage. If that person starts shooting at me WITHOUT communication... well... I'm engineered Cutter, so that's no skin off my nose. But prior to getting god-mode (particularity during the heat meta), if someone tried to light me up without any communication, they might well have seen my ship vanish.
Again, combat is fine - and I'm happy to eat a rebuy if I fail to dump cargo or try (and fail) to run a blockade... but the key is the communication that gives context to your actions.

PvP is not always two ships shooting lasers. It can also be Blockade running, evasion, piracy, he'll, technically, the Bucky Ball guys are PvP'ers!

Don't think for a moment all PvP is death and destruction. If you do think that, we'll, you really don't understand PvP.

Note, my favourite form on PvP on my PC account is doing my salvage, go into space, and out-fly would-be pirates. That said I do also enjoy PvP piracy. And yes, I have murdered other players.

And to be blunt, I'm proud of my actions. Also note, I'm not flying a Meta-De-Lance. I'm flying a ruddy unengineered Cobra.

I survive because I put effort into understanding of the environment.

Most people dying "for no reason"... To be blunt, they fly blindly. Jump into system, go in a straight line... That's asking me to interdict them. And if they ignore my hails, I shoot them. I leave them drifting through space. There's a good chance they don't know about reboot too. But they play in Open... We'll let me be blunt. They ARE my content if I choose so. Flipside... I'm also content for other players if they choose me.

And I welcome that thrill. And yes, that IS part of playing Open.

This PwP argument? It's in the game. It's called PG. And I can't stress enough. I have no object to Solo/PG.

- - - Updated - - -

And that is where you fail with your arguments miserably.

No, PvP is not fun for me (and I am quite certain it is the same for many others), since equipping a ship for PvP, and changing my playstyle completely to match it, means I cannot properly do and enjoy the other things the game offers. And that is exactly where the game stops being fun for me.

The only thing you actually achieve with that midset is driving even more people away from Open.

I look forward to the day when Open is only populated by the people who want thrill & suspense in their game.

 

[Darkphoenix]

I look forward to the day when Open is only populated by the people who want thrill & suspense in their game.

No offense, but I am soooo gonna link to this forum post the next time someone whines about "open is so empty" and "how do we get players to come back to open" crops up........and not picking on your post just so I'm clear but some in the pvp scene that post stuff like that.

 

[Surprised Brony]

I look forward to the day when Open is only populated by the people who want thrill & suspense in their game.

Open isn't just for thrill and suspense. Wishing for less players in open just so they all agree with you is just...I don't know. I'm glad we have a bit of everything in open. It really seems open.

All I'm saying is that it's a crying shame when some CGs aren't so much a community goal as a tank of hungry sharks hoping for someone to try and swim across. I'm not sure if that's what FD intended, but they could at least make some new CG variants. Do we even have CGs that ask for player kills? That would be nice.

 

[xondk]

Sir how very dare you castigate Pirates in the same sentence as Gankers and Griefers. Pirates want your cargo not to kill you.

I am deeply hurt and demand 10% of your cargo immediately,, damn, sorry role playing again!

they are generally lumped together because people get constantly affected by them, rather then you know getting pirated on a route, paying up and then being able to do that route because you paid protection money, it would seem that people get indicated often by different pirates, making them unable to turn a profit? and yes, while they could hire guards or get people to protect them or others this isn't always viable for some, so I get why people get annoyed. though personally I haven't really been affected that much even at CG's course generally they don't go after big targets flying heavier ships.

 

[Watchdog]

I look forward to the day when Open is only populated by the people who want thrill & suspense in their game.

Sure, I wish both of you have fun among all the NPC's then...