Am I the only one who thinks the price of shipping ships is far too high?

[V'larr]

You can keep repeating yourself but it won't make you any less delusional.

I think I'm done trying to talk to you in this thread. I don't suffer hypocrisy very well, much less a discussion devolving into continued insults and strawman hairsplitting.

Hi
Not sure i follow you about needing the fgs (probably me being thick pre coffee and manflu) i wanted to fgs because i wanted to do some combat.

Wait - manflu? There's gendered variants of the flu? Get well soon, anyway.

I presumed that you had a goal in mind of making a profit, that's all. If the FGS is the combat ship you plan on sticking to for the foreseeable future...then that means you're not really worried about credits anymore, right?

5mil in 30 mins is nothing, asp, hell i could have earned 3 in an adder! The trick is to build rep in a system. Boom time deliveries regularly go over the 2 million mark often for single figure amounts of stuff. It takes maybe a few hrs to get allied but even cordial or friendly increase profits. Since FD made the decision (imo a mistake) to remove rank requirements for missions then high payers are for all.

Building rep in a system is a non-trivial task that at the least takes an hour or two, if you know what you are doing...and doesn't it decline slowly over time?
I have built rep up in many systems, especially around Munshin, doing both trading and during my Imperial rank grind, and I don't commonly see such valuable missions (much less delivery ones that won't exceed a typical Asp's cargo capacity)...so I wager that's something to do with the specific system you were involved with, here.
Bottom line, it's something you've discovered and built up due to experience playing the game, so already I'm inclined to say this shouldn't be expected, normal behavior involving use of a so-called "quality of life" feature.

Now this takes some organisation. Setting up allied hotspots through the bubble where you are allied . This takes time and organisation​ and my network is far far from complete but thisnIS the long term game content to keep people playing imo but the entire point for doing this hinges on having a reason to do it.... And as it happens the only reason for doing it right now is to create shipping lanes.

Well, there are other reasons to be allied with minor factions, but no need to go into depth about that here I suppose.

<snip> And ship transfers is part of that cost / benefit balancing act

See...this I strongly disagree about. It explains your viewpoint well, but I do not think this particular feature should be treated as part of the credit overinflation problem that's escalated due to various exploits creeping up as time and updates have gone by.

I think the 'cost/benefit' balancing act should be addressed more directly - like Fdev applying the nerfbat and balancing mission rewards and so on.

The feature of ship transfer was described by Fdev themselves as a "quality of life" addition to the game - so that's exactly how it should be treated balance-wise.

I'm nowhere near having anything like a Cutter, Python or Anaconda, but 1.7Mcr is two, maybe three bounty hunting runs in my Eagle or Viper MkIII at a High Res (not even a Haz Res). So, no, I really don't think that's outrageous.

First, High-RES is much easier than Haz-RES, in terms of bounty-farming, because High-RES has the cops, and Haz-RES does not.

Secondly, even with the High-RES farming (which I personally think is one or two steps shy of being an exploit, it's pretty much kill-stealing), that's going to take you a good half-hour to forty five minutes to come up with 1.7 million credits - and *THAT* is if you are an experienced, successful combat pilot with a well-designed Eagle loadout that you know what you're doing with. (For reference: when I was first playing the game in my first-ever Eagle after upgrading from the starter Sidewinder, it would probably have taken me a good 3-4 hours to earn that many bounties, assuming I didn't get blown up....)

All those things are missing when considering a new player. So I must stress that it is indeed outragerous for all but the already endowed and experienced players, and even then I highly question if it's a fair price.

If you're at a point in the game that you have enough money to have any of the big three, you should easily be able to weigh up the cost/convenience factors yourself. Queue up a 200 light year transfer, and earn it back by the time your ship arrived by playing the game, have the ship you want, where you want it, for what you want to do with it.

Why? I would far rather just pocket that 1.7 million profit in that time and avoid such a drastic cost. Why waste any of that time spent earning the credits back? That's not a convenience. I can have my ship where and when I want it simply by having a home system and not being afraid of using 'taxi' haulers if I left a ship somewhere else.

Save the money on the transfer, make the jumps to your ship, maybe doing something on the way, but most likely simply jump-jump-jump, get into your ship, and jump-jump-jump all the way back to where you want it, trading convenience for time and money (in your account).

But the time it takes for ship transfer to take place - something I spent a good while arguing for on the forums, because I think Pokeball spaceships is silly - is usually quite a bit more than it would take for me to do the "jump-jump-jump" there and back again. So that's not really saving me time, and it's losing me money.

Honestly, if I had known the figures for ship transfer that Fdev were going with when the feature was being introduced, I would been raising as much noise about that as I did about not having instant-transfer space magic.

Only time I use it is to transfer my travel Sidewinder to my FDL. FDL's jump range sucks, so I use a light weight Sidewinder to get places quickly. Such as the CG, I flew my FDL the endless Ly to my hunting ground and brought the SW to drop off the bounties in the perilous CG. Only 10k if I get ganked in a SW instead of the 4M it costs on my FDL. Pretty clever if I do say so myself.
Recently got a DBX to replace the SW and run Sothis/Ceos light tonnage missions.
...oops, off topic, haha. :]

Only slightly off-topic, but may I suggest you look into travel Haulers? It's not much more than a Sidewinder and you can get higher mileage. You could also get quite a bit out of a Dolphin or Diamondback Scout, if you've got a little more credits to spare.

I'm going to pretend I didn't see you confessing to being a Ceos/Sothis sinner, though. [mad] lol

Somewhere, there's a thread by an NPC complaining about the grind of dropping everything, taking a ship 400ly without a scratch, and having to hitch-hike back, all for a measly 10 mil...
Seriously, if you don't like it, do it the old fashioned way and pick it up yourself.

Ah, the old, "if you don't like it, don't play" argument....

If it's not worth playing or using, then what's the point of it existing to begin with?

I've still yet to hear a good reply to that question after 10 years of gaming under my belt....

 

[RamirezKurita]

Ah, the old, "if you don't like it, don't play" argument....

If it's not worth playing or using, then what's the point of it existing to begin with?

I've still yet to hear a good reply to that question after 10 years of gaming under my belt....

But, as has been firmly established in this thread, players do use ship transfer. If you get a situation where most players are willing to use a service some of the time to save themselves the effort, but are equally loathe to use it in certain scenarios when it's easier to just do it themselves, then it is likely balanced. Obviously, you will get outliers that refuse to use the service and like to do everything manually on principle, just as you will get outliers that try their utmost to abuse the service and end up wasting vast amounts of money, but those are the extremes that will always exist, the goal of balance is to have the majority of players using the service on occasion.

You are wanting ship transfer to be a trivial catch-all to move ships around effortlessly no matter the situation with effectively no investment, rather than the currently balanced mechanic that forces difficult decisions on the player that it is. It is not meant to be the default option, it is meant to be a choice - the balance point is where there is no default option for players as both options are situational.

 

[NW3]

But, as has been firmly established in this thread, players do use ship transfer. If you get a situation where most players are willing to use a service some of the time to save themselves the effort, but are equally loathe to use it in certain scenarios when it's easier to just do it themselves, then it is likely balanced. Obviously, you will get outliers that refuse to use the service and like to do everything manually on principle, just as you will get outliers that try their utmost to abuse the service and end up wasting vast amounts of money, but those are the extremes that will always exist, the goal of balance is to have the majority of players using the service on occasion.

You are wanting ship transfer to be a trivial catch-all to move ships around effortlessly no matter the situation with effectively no investment, rather than the currently balanced mechanic that forces difficult decisions on the player that it is. It is not meant to be the default option, it is meant to be a choice - the balance point is where there is no default option for players as both options are situational.

I agree 100%. Rep++

 

[DLewth]

Ah, the old, "if you don't like it, don't play" argument....

If it's not worth playing or using, then what's the point of it existing to begin with?

I've still yet to hear a good reply to that question after 10 years of gaming under my belt....

As Ramirez says, that's only a valid argument if it's not worth playing or using, and most people (myself included) seem to think it is. Personally I'll bounce over in my AspX, set the transfer going, then bolt a mining laser on and collect shiny rocks while I wait: It pays for the transfer (well, on a good day [wink]) and it's something different to do (I'm not a career miner).

Maybe you just need to re-think how you go about it?

 

[V'larr]

But, as has been firmly established in this thread, players do use ship transfer.

Some people also continue to play games that are really just not worth playing, due to a lack of care or interest on the part of the developer. Doesn't make the argument "Don't like it, don't use it" a good one.

If it can be better, then let it be better.

If you get a situation where most players are willing to use a service some of the time to save themselves the effort, but are equally loathe to use it in certain scenarios when it's easier to just do it
themselves, then it is likely balanced.

*Not* if it's supposed to be a quality of life feature. By definition, it should be useful and easily accessible to all players.

Obviously, you will get outliers that refuse to use the service and like to do everything manually on principle, just as you will get outliers that try their utmost to abuse the service and end up wasting vast amounts of money, but those are the extremes that will always exist, the goal of balance is to have the majority of players using the service on occasion.

And I don't believe such a majority exists. Yes, you and others who have posted here do indeed use it. But many others have posted who, like me, do not, and would very much like to if the costs weren't so darned high.

You are wanting ship transfer to be a trivial catch-all to move ships around effortlessly no matter the situation with effectively no investment, rather than the currently balanced mechanic that forces difficult decisions on the player that it is. It is not meant to be the default option, it is meant to be a choice - the balance point is where there is no default option for players as both options are situational.

No, that's not what I am wanting. What you describe is going too far.

I'm not against a fair price on ship transfer, that's fine. The graph I re-posted is an example of keeping things fair while also making it more accessible. There's plenty wiggle-room available here, and we are in little danger of reaching such extremes.

As Ramirez says, that's only a valid argument if it's not worth playing or using, and most people (myself included) seem to think it is.

Some people.

Just as some people have also posted in this same thread with the viewpoint that it's not worth using with such high costs.

Personally I'll bounce over in my AspX, set the transfer going, then bolt a mining laser on and collect shiny rocks while I wait: It pays for the transfer (well, on a good day [wink]) and it's something different to do (I'm not a career miner).
Maybe you just need to re-think how you go about it?

I don't think it should only be useful when using a taxi Asp-Explorer, nor only when expressly doing money-generating activities to make up the difference.

Again, if taken solely in the context of the very generous CG payouts available, the costs make a decent amount of sense. But CGs are a *small* part of the game and I do not think ship transfer prices should be balanced around CG payouts (or exploit payouts, for that matter).

 

[Cupsuki]

Really? Is this still going?

 

[V'larr]

Really? Is this still going?

If you have nothing to say, why say anything at all?

 

[NW3]

*Not* if it's supposed to be a quality of life feature. By definition, it should be useful and easily accessible to all players.

And I don't believe such a majority exists. Yes, you and others who have posted here do indeed use it. But many others have posted who, like me, do not, and would very much like to if the costs weren't so darned high.

No, that's not what I am wanting. What you describe is going too far.

I'm not against a fair price on ship transfer, that's fine. The graph I re-posted is an example of keeping things fair while also making it more accessible. There's plenty wiggle-room available here, and we are in little danger of reaching such extremes.

I don't think it should only be useful when using a taxi Asp-Explorer, nor only when expressly doing money-generating activities to make up the difference.

Again, if taken solely in the context of the very generous CG payouts available, the costs make a decent amount of sense. But CGs are a *small* part of the game and I do not think ship transfer prices should be balanced around CG payouts (or exploit payouts, for that matter).

This is where we disagree: I think the current price is fair *. It is a quality of life feature which I use occasionally. Granted, I'd like a cheaper, slower option too. I'd even accept a faster, more expensive option (like 3D printing). There's no doubt it's useful. I'm sure more players would use it if it were cheaper, but that's not the point. People would use the Engineers more if they could be paid in fish (outside of beta).

There's no need for a CG to pay for transfer. I'm currently earning over 2 million credits per hour, doing pure trading in my Type-9 (no missions). I'm transporting coffee to a nearby system and returning with animal monitors. I make 650 K cr per round trip. This is not a exploit. I have 488 tons of cargo space.

* Why do I think it's fair? The current cost is about what it needs to be, for me to consider doing a ship-delivery mission (assuming FD adds them at some point). I assume it would be to deliver NPC ships; no CMDR would accept the risk of losing their ship due to another commander's incompetence.

 

[DLewth]

Some people.

Just as some people have also posted in this same thread with the viewpoint that it's not worth using with such high costs.

I said *most*. Look back at the thread.

I don't think it should only be useful when using a taxi Asp-Explorer,

Did I say that? Prior to getting an AspX, I used my Courier. You use the biggest jumper you have.

Spoiler

No, I don't mean this sort of jumper.

nor only when expressly doing money-generating activities to make up the difference.

Only if you are short of money. Dr Kaii has a "Make a billion credits a week" video here. It shouldn't be an issue. Last time I took my AspX mining, I forgot to buy limpets and spent a few hours gathering fragments with my scoop. It was fun. Isn't that what you want? Fun?

Again, if taken solely in the context of the very generous CG payouts available, the costs make a decent amount of sense. But CGs are a *small* part of the game and I do not think ship transfer prices should be balanced around CG payouts (or exploit payouts, for that matter).

Did I say anything about CGs? I usually use it for Engineers, but CG's is an option, I guess.

 

[william1134]

As a somewhat casual player (tho I don't play much recently) I found that I just don't have the spare millions to pay for ship transfer, which IMO is far too expensive and is a case where unfortunately FD caved to pressure from the "Muh immursion" players.

It would be interesting to see if we could see some stats but I really don't think that too many people use it, just because of the cost.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As a somewhat casual player (tho I don't play much recently) I found that I just don't have the spare millions to pay for ship transfer, which IMO is far too expensive and is a case where unfortunately FD caved to pressure from the "Muh immursion" players.

It would be interesting to see if we could see some stats but I really don't think that too many people use it, just because of the cost.

We were advised during the official poll that, if it had been instant, it would have been significantly more expensive....

 

[Gavin Burke]

The only reason I can see for it is to punish players for not having the time or wanting to spend the time doing boring stuff.

Because the Universe is alive even in this game! If you went and got the ship yourself and died, you'd have a hell of a insurance claim, so it'd make no sense to be able to get your ship on the cheap sent, it's still gotta be insured by whoever is delivering.

 

[Dad Rock]

To be honest, if I was taking missions where I had to deliver player's ships to where they are, I'd probably want to get paid around those sums. The way I see it, ship transport is a convenience and a luxury. So yeah, with respect, it's probably a realistic amount to fork up.

 

[Mikey2305]

@r34per... your view is equally valid and reflects my own...

 

[Ozram]

As a somewhat casual player (tho I don't play much recently) I found that I just don't have the spare millions to pay for ship transfer, which IMO is far too expensive and is a case where unfortunately FD caved to pressure from the "Muh immursion" players.

It would be interesting to see if we could see some stats but I really don't think that too many people use it, just because of the cost.

Before you go blaming immersion and those who acknowledge its importance be mindful of the fact that if it were instant, the prices were going to be far higher and in fact, the original lowered price was about twice what it is now.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Only if you are short of money. Dr Kaii has a "Make a billion credits a week" video here. It shouldn't be an issue. Last time I took my AspX mining, I forgot to buy limpets and spend a few hours gathering frgments with my scoop. It was fun. Isn't that what you want? Fun?
.

Whilst personally i do not agree with V'larr on this particular topic, imo it is not right to use videos like the above as an example for any form of balancing at all..... I know Dr Kaii feels that way of earning money is fine, but personally i think it is taking advantage of huge weaknesses in the games mission generators/BGS/economy and as such its not an option for many of us.. (this is not a slight on him at all btw just a difference of opinion)

IF (I say IF because I personally do not think it is the case) but IF the only way to make ship transfer affordable was to do the above, then I would be complaining about the costs of ship transfer just as much as V'larr.

HOWEVER, there are plenty of ways of making good money in the game (not 100mil an hr of course) , it just takes a bit of thinking, organisation and patience.

PS FD have already halved ship transfer price.. if you think it is high now... imagine how it would have been in its 1st iteration

 

[VR Lucian Arkright]

As a somewhat casual player (tho I don't play much recently) I found that I just don't have the spare millions to pay for ship transfer, which IMO is far too expensive and is a case where unfortunately FD caved to pressure from the "Muh immursion" players.

It would be interesting to see if we could see some stats but I really don't think that too many people use it, just because of the cost.

Very little of the debate was actually about immersion, but actually about game balance.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I presumed that you had a goal in mind of making a profit, that's all. If the FGS is the combat ship you plan on sticking to for the foreseeable future...then that means you're not really worried about credits anymore, right?

Building rep in a system is a non-trivial task that at the least takes an hour or two, if you know what you are doing...and doesn't it decline slowly over time?
I have built rep up in many systems, especially around Munshin, doing both trading and during my Imperial rank grind, and I don't commonly see such valuable missions (much less delivery ones that won't exceed a typical Asp's cargo capacity)...so I wager that's something to do with the specific system you were involved with, here.
Bottom line, it's something you've discovered and built up due to experience playing the game, so already I'm inclined to say this shouldn't be expected, normal behavior involving use of a so-called "quality of life" feature.

Well, there are other reasons to be allied with minor factions, but no need to go into depth about that here I suppose.
..

Hi

i am at work so really need to log off this forum but befgore i go... i do a bit of everything. i absolutely still need more money in the game. i have an anaconda but have only once flown her outside of beta due to not being able to afford to spec her.

as for rep.... rep for minor factions does not decay over time (thank god! ) its only major rep which does, and even that, only down to 75%.'

Oh and i agree there are other reasons for expanding minor factions, so sorry if i came accross like that, but this is the only reason i can think of for buildign a network of allied factions accross the entire bubble.

right i need to do some work

PS manflu.... joke term.... women have a cold, men get "manflu" which is more worse and is why "we" get to sit on our backsides all day and get looked after whilst women get on with it without moaning (but i was not being serious)

PPS if i want class 5 clean/dirty drives i need to get all my ships to Maia.. so i may be about to bang my head on the wall and regret siding with the "pro" current costs

 

[DLewth]

Whilst personally i do not agree with V'larr on this particular topic, imo it is not right to use videos like the above as an example for any form of balancing at all..... I know Dr Kaii feels that way of earning money is fine, but personally i think it is taking advantage of huge weaknesses in the games mission generators/BGS/economy and as such its not an option for many of us.. (this is not a slight on him at all btw just a difference of opinion)

IF (I say IF because I personally do not think it is the case) but IF the only way to make ship transfer affordable was to do the above, then I would be complaining about the costs of ship transfer just as much as V'larr.

HOWEVER, there are plenty of ways of making good money in the game (not 100mil an hr of course) , it just takes a bit of thinking, organisation and patience.

PS FD have already halved ship transfer price.. if you think it is high now... imagine how it would have been in its 1st iteration

I actually agree with you, and would rather see how far I can make my Scarab jump off a cliff on an un-named moon than earn a billion credits a week, because I'm not here to have the biggest ship and "win".
But it seems that is what V'larr wants so if it helps him on his way, I'm happy to point him there.

 

[razor83]

For me, transfering ships much have a price for keeping immersion. With may be certain facility : good price to migrate toward the center, maybe considering that the bill is financed by the core communauty and need of new settler.
Never went to the core yet but i suppose that the bill must be enormous no ?

But now, with Fighters, multicrew, ... It may be not for stupid to consider that we are managing a fleet more that a single cmdr.
I'd like to keep the shipping price in game but also allow to appear in one of our ship when starting the game.
Not more aberrant that be "teletransported" in another one cockpit.