This is not fair.

[GraXXoR]

having the rebuy covered doesnt really solve the problem of using the game exploit. its still wasted millions either way.

It's not an exploit. An exploit would be to somehow get a player who WAS flying less than 100 wanted and killed by the station. THAT would be an exploit.

OP broke the cardinal 100m/s AND flew without rebuy... that strikes me as merely a cavalier attitude to safety. The other player was a d... (can't use an appropriate word on this forum) sure, but that is all.

 

[ethelred]

I feel the OPs pain.

In open these people will always exist, even if the C&P is ramped up. See the million page Open thread for whether this is a good or bad thing.

If you play in Open, accept this (I agree completely it is Bad Form) and always work within the rules to make it hard for them.

In this case stick below 100.

Trigger warning:- Maybe learn from your mistakes? This has been unjustly been simplified to the derogatory "git gud" but hard lessons are the best learned ones.

Fly safe, fly smart.

 

[Devari]

Except ofcourse seen several vids of kamikazes going in in silent mode.

I recently noticed someone doing exactly this last week at Xihe. There weren't any small player ships on my sensors where the collisons were occurring but there was definitely another CMDR there trying repeatedly to ram into large ships that were docking.

I've found two solutions to help reduce the risk of this happening given that under most circumstances players are not going to keep their speed under 100 m/s every single time they dock as that quite simply isn't practical.

The first way to reduce the risk is by monitoring the bandwith which tells you if another CMDR is in the same instance as you. Now I ALWAYS have the bandwith readout running (toggled with CTRL+B) whenever I'm docking with a large ship so I will know if another stealthed player is in the instance near the station. If the sensors are clear of contacts for other CMDRs and the bandwith is below 1000 b/s I can be reasonably certain that another player isn't waiting to try to troll me and I will use boost as needed around the station without any real risk (other then of course the risk of hitting an NPC accidentally which you can manage by chekcing that your flight path is clear).

The second option is that if you do somehow manage to get trolled despite these precautions and see the bounty warning pop up you can quickly exit the game simply by quitting to the main menu before anyone opens fire. If you do this immediately after you get the bounty, but before the system security ships or station have opened fire on you, then you are not considered to be in combat and can therefore logout immediately without a 15 second timer being applied. You need to do this immediately because as soon as you're attacked you have the 15 second delay and that is long enough that the station will easily vaporize your ship in that time but it does give you an option if you're fast enough at quitting the game after getting the bounty.

 

[Martian Successor]

Hey OP, can you PM me this commander's name? If he gets blasted enough times he won't have enough rebuy to continue.

 

[Cupsuki]

Simply don't go over 100 m/s, if you are flying a corvette and you didn't knew that them you need pay more attention to station protocols.

Then you cam laugh as they waste their time crashing into you

 

[DukeIronHand]

This is not an exploit and the guy wasn't cheating; the mechanic is working exactly as intended.

How in the name of all that's holy can you make such statement.
Then whine how Open is so empty. Geesh...

 

[Devari]

Dude - i disagree.

Its clearly an exploit if someone intentionally blows themselfs up on your hull to get u killed by a station.

What would you call that? "Working as intended" If so: awesome. We are on two totally different wave lenghts and theres no point in even talking to one another.

For real.

It's not an exploit simply because it relies on the first player INTENTIONALLY choosing to exceed the speed limit despite the potential consequences. The rules for speeding are specific in-game rules that are in effect around stations and you need to intentionally break these rules in order for another player to be able to take advantage of the game mechanic in the first place. The game mechanic is "working as intended" because the first player needs to choose to speed in order to be susceptible to being trolled and the entire point of the speed limit is to discourage speeding. The game mechanic, even when being used by unscrupulous plalyers to troll other CMDRs, is still serving its intended purpose in the game.

It is still an example of trolling but that's not the same as griefing. Griefing would be using a game mechanic or exploit in a way that was not intended. With the speeding issue you are are not preventing that player from progressing in any way because the player can simply choose not to speed in the first place. Using an intentional game mechanic and increasing the chances that a commander who chooses to speed with be destroyed by ramming them is not actually griefing. The issue here is that the player was still destroyed for something they were actually choosing to do and had full control over participting in, i.e., choosing to speed while docking at a station, and they knew that a potential consequence of this was ship destruction if they collide and destroy another ship.

The behiavor is still trolling and is terrible for the Elite gaming community in general. It's particulary problematic for new players who play in Open and might not fully understand docking rules or the consequences of speeding becuase it pushes even more player away from the game. I think FD should definitely do somthing to address in some way or at least increase the speed limit to something more reasonable like 200-250 m/s so it's easier to stay under the limit. For now, however, the players who are choosing to troll other players within the exsting speeding game mechaincs aren't doing anything wrong as far as FD is concerned.

 

[Stealthie]

Oddly enough, I just got my ship destroyed at a station.

I was just on my way out when a Cutter loomed up right across the exit.
I was actually through the mail-slot and in the toast rack when he appeared, got snagged on it and blocked it completely.
I hit reverse and was feeling quite pleased with myself for managing to avoid getting involved in his crash.

For about 5 seconds.

Then I get a fine for "trespassing" inside the station.
Then I get a warning to leave the station... which I couldn't do because there was a Cutter tangled up in the toast rack.
And then there was laser-fire, explosions and a re-buy screen. [blah]

 

[V'larr]

I described the rules quite clearly, and the game does abide to those rules. The example of an actual exploit I gave did not abide to the game's rules.

That's wrong.

The 17 Draconis skimmer exploits occured *within the rules of the game* as the game existed before that issue was fixed. Which Fdev did by changing the rules...specifically the one governing how hunting skimmers behaves, and I imagine other ones governing the BGS.

It's not an exploit. An exploit would be to somehow get a player who WAS flying less than 100 wanted and killed by the station. THAT would be an exploit.
OP broke the cardinal 100m/s AND flew without rebuy... that strikes me as merely a cavalier attitude to safety. The other player was a d... (can't use an appropriate word on this forum) sure, but that is all.

Look, I'll put it this way: if suicide-winder-ramming isn't an exploit, then neither is combat logging. The current rules of the game allow combat logging to happen, so it does. Therefore by your own (twisted) definition, it's not an exploit and therefore not a problem.

 

[Red Anders]

Exactly why I will not play in open.

What, because you're incapable of flying at less than 100 m/s?

Every single time this comes up it's the same. Is is a ish move? Yes of course it is. Is it easily avoided? Yes, of course it is.

This isn't some unavoidable act of God, nor is it anything like getting your unarmed T-6 fragged by a wing of FDLs.

Unless you think your ship is actually going to be significantly damaged by a collision with a Sidewinder or Eagle on 2% hull (so basically unless you're flying a Sidewinder with 1% hull yourself) just fly below 100 m/s and laugh as they explode.

" the mechanic is working exactly as intended" o_0

I respectfully, strongly disagree.

Doesn't matter how strongly you disagree. The mechanic makes a player wanted if he is involved in a collision with another ship, whilst speeding in the no fire zone, which leads to its destruction. That's literally the entire mechanic and it is indisputably working as intended. The thread (and every other thread we've seen about it) is irrefutable proof of that.

Remove the mechanic and you'll just go back to people ramming players to death as they're trying to dock.

The only thing you need to do to avoid it is fly below 100 m/s in the no fire zone. There's nothing difficult or complicated about it.

The current rules of the game allow combat logging to happen, so it does.

Ummm... nope. The game doesn't stop you from yanking out your network cable (there's no way that it could obviously) but it's been stated quite clearly that combat logging is in fact against the rules. On here, by FD.

If you mean logging out via the menu rather than making an ungraceful exit, I'd suggest not calling it combat logging because it isn't within the context of the game rules. It's pretty lame in my opinion, but not punishable. Actual combat logging is.

I do wish people would stop inventing their own reality and just make do with the same one that the rest of us have to operate within.

 

[SaliVader]

How in the name of all that's holy can you make such statement.
Then whine how Open is so empty. Geesh...

I guess it's true that facts hurt the most.

Listen, I'm not defending the guy in the sidewinder. Was he a troll? Yeah, absolutely. I've even call him an . But FDev already thought of this issue and implemented a solution. Slow down!

 

[V'larr]

Oddly enough, I just got my ship destroyed at a station.

I was just on my way out when a Cutter loomed up right across the exit.
I was actually through the mail-slot and in the toast rack when he appeared, got snagged on it and blocked it completely.
I hit reverse and was feeling quite pleased with myself for managing to avoid getting involved in his crash.

For about 5 seconds.

Then I get a fine for "trespassing" inside the station.
Then I get a warning to leave the station... which I couldn't do because there was a Cutter tangled up in the toast rack.
And then there was laser-fire, explosions and a re-buy screen. [blah]

For moments like that, I unabashedly keep task manager open and ready...the sensible thing would be to first blare a warning to both CMDRs to make way for each other with a grace period to let them extract themselves from the mailslot *before* jumping to "ERADICATE, ERADICATE" mode.

Right-of-way can be tricky, but when done right, you *can* fit other ships past a Cutter at the same time in the mail slot - though if it's two Cutters, it has to be PERFECTLY done to go right.

Otherwise, just look out before you commit to heading through the slot. (I personally try to make sure there's nobody coming *out* when I'm going on, but, like driving on the public roads, I've learned most other people are just jerks.)

 

[IamMe]

It's his disgrace, OP don't bother over a sissy, he must have a hard life ya know.
He is already punished in real life!

 

[V'larr]

What, because you're incapable of flying at less than 100 m/s?
Every single time this comes up it's the same. Is is a ish move? Yes of course it is. Is it easily avoided? Yes, of course it is.
This isn't some unavoidable act of God, nor is it anything like getting your unarmed T-6 fragged by a wing of FDLs.
Unless you think your ship is actually going to be significantly damaged by a collision with a Sidewinder or Eagle on 2% hull (so basically unless you're flying a Sidewinder with 1% hull yourself) just fly below 100 m/s and laugh as they explode.

Doesn't matter how strongly you disagree. The mechanic makes a player wanted if he is involved in a collision with another ship which leads to its destruction. That's literally the entire mechanic and it is indisputably working as intended. The thread (and every other thread we've seen about it) is irrefutable proof of that.
Remove the mechanic and you'll just go back to people ramming players to death as they're trying to dock.
The only thing you need to do to avoid it is fly below 100 m/s in the no fire zone. There's nothing difficult or complicated about it.

I guess it's true that facts hurt the most.
Listen, I'm not defending the guy in the sidewinder. Was he a troll? Yeah, absolutely. I've even call him an . But FDev already thought of this issue and implemented a solution. Slow down!

That's not a solution, that's a circumvention.
"Indisputable" my rear end.

I am completely certain it's not at all how Fdev intended things - that, instead, as usual, we can't have any nice things because we players keep breaking everything and defying expectations, and Fdev hasn't gotten to this yet by virtue of the staggering amount of things on their plate to deal with.

 

[Surprised Brony]

As ive said about 56 times. It still cost millions annnnnd millions due to an exploit. Rebuy or not. The point is entirely missed.

No one is saying flying with a rebuy will fix it. It will save you from losing the ship completely and being set back hundreds of millions due to player actions. I'd say 20-30 million is easier to obtain than 600 million.

You don't have to be so antagonistic when people are just trying to give you options to avoid huge setbacks. Nothing will ever stop people from being trolls. :\

At least with the current implementation, you can avoid being trolled entirely. I do wish that whichever ship was traveling faster would get the blame for the death though. I mean, they usually violate the speed limit to get you killed, so why are you the only one to blame?

 

[SaliVader]

That's wrong.

The 17 Draconis skimmer exploits occured *within the rules of the game* as the game existed before that issue was fixed. Which Fdev did by changing the rules...specifically the one governing how hunting skimmers behaves, and I imagine other ones governing the BGS.



Look, I'll put it this way: if suicide-winder-ramming isn't an exploit, then neither is combat logging. The current rules of the game allow combat logging to happen, so it does. Therefore by your own (twisted) definition, it's not an exploit and therefore not a problem.

The game existed before that issue was fixed? What? What are you trying to say here? You yourself called it "fixed", and they were clearly not the intended target of the missions, ergo exploit.


The current rules of the game don't allow combat logging, the game allows it despite the rules. FDev themselves ban people for combat logging.

 

[jasonbarron]

i saw a certain wanted commander in a shieldless eagle with 5% hull waiting at the mailslot at the last CG. so i proceeded to ram him to death at 99 m/s, then type into local chat "i got 99 problems but a bich aint one". good times were had by all.

Exactly this. Once a player is aware of how the system works, why not just obey the speed limit and gank the ganker? People speeding into crowded stations are their own worst enemy.

On the other hand, anyone who​ fly's a Corvette without a rebuy deserves what they get.

 

[SaliVader]

That's not a solution, that's a circumvention.
"Indisputable" my rear end.

I am completely certain it's not at all how Fdev intended things - that, instead, as usual, we can't have any nice things because we players keep breaking everything and defying expectations, and Fdev hasn't gotten to this yet by virtue of the staggering amount of things on their plate to deal with.

Do I need to repeat again for the thirtieth time in this thread why the speed limit was introduced in the first place? Tell me V'larr, how would you solve this issue?

 

[Spacecat]

The irony of this is that the speed limits were imposed on us because some players loved to ram people to death, ofcourse now those same people love to take a shieldless lowhealth sidewinder and ram other ships to get the station to do the killing FOR them.

Yeah, this fix traded one problem for another and still needs to be rethought.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Yeah, this fix traded one problem for another and still needs to be rethought.

Hmmm - maybe station applies a 99 speed limit to all ships within it's area of influence except those in silent running, and ignores their damage or destruction no matter the cause?