Seconded. That's pretty much how we did it. https://finland.fi/life-society/finland-celebrates-100-years-of-independence-in-2017/
I recommend skipping the civil war that followed though.
General / Off-Topic Are we brexiting?
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Seconded. That's pretty much how we did it. https://finland.fi/life-society/finland-celebrates-100-years-of-independence-in-2017/
I recommend skipping the civil war that followed though.
Monday in Glasgow Theresa May reiterated that it was "not the right time to evoke a second referendum on the independence (On the photo, a cordial relationship between Ms Sturgeon and Ms May)
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Well if the ref was run with international oversight, OECD etc, then the result would have to be respected, lack of a technical rubber stamp from the UK government will not make the process any less democratic.
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The latter part was mostly a joke. If you look into the circumstances of Finnish independence, the reasons for the tragedy of the civil war will become clear. The Bolshevik revolution was going on next door, in the Empire we'd been annexed into, and declared independence from. This being 1917, quite a few workers wanted to join the Soviet Union as it was being born, the "Whites" wanted to a monarchy with a German prince as the King of Finland.
Patrick, I have a TV in the house thanks, with probably more tv channels than yourself I dare say. Also as you can see I have the internet as well, so do not feel then need to regurgitate the evening news for my benefit. If you have some particular argument to make on the issue feel free, being a human ticker tape as I said before, should be beneath you.
Today in front of members of parliament Mrs May will say : "We are a great union of people and nations with a history of which we can be proud and with a brilliant future"
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Anyway, all of the "this is not the time" stuff is just hand waving nonsense that's dutifully repeated ad nauseum by the media. Nobody is saying have it NOW, but have it when it's clear what Brexit means and people can see the two options. If article 50 is triggered when everybody thinks it will be then that fits perfectly with the timescale that Nicola Sturgeon proposed.
I had a quick look on the web and picked up it had an ethic element, the usual result of empire. The Russian element seems to have lost hard. Well done the Finns, I`m Irish, we always like to back the underdog, the worse the odds the better [up].
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Today in front of members of parliament Mrs May will say : "We are a great union of people and nations with a history of which we can be proud and with a brilliant future"
What did I say about ticker tape Patrick.
Are Scotland able to hold a simple ballot, or at least non-binding referendum, without the approval of Theresa May? A lot depends on that question.
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I can`t see May wanting to fight on two fronts so delay will be the tactic to try and pull the Scots out of the EU and make life as difficult as possible. I think the SNP will have to stick to their own timetable regardless of a Section 30. To quote Parnell, “No man has the right to fix a boundary to the march of a nation. No man has the right to say to his country: Thus far shalt thou go and no further.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/n...ary-on-scotland-s-march-as-a-nation-1.2813933
This is where the Scots are going to have to get out of the back seat and get into the driver seat and take control of their own destiny regardless of Westminster.
Read in the french press, this evening --- "If Sturgeon succeeds in organizing a new referendum, it will remain for her, to convince the Scots. According to a survey, only 44% are in favor of independence.
I assume you meant ethnic. Not really. It had a huge class element, and nasty attrocities happened. On both sides, but the victorious "whites" in their anti-communist purges reached a real proto-fascist level. Female combatants and children were executed in a particularly disgusting manner.
Finland would have been messed up for a long, long time, except.... Stalin decided to start the Winter War by bombing Helsinki and other cities. The terror bombing campaign came as a shock to the "Reds", who joined the army and fought side by side with the "Whites". Nothing like a common enemy to start healing the wounds.
Luckily it was all a long time ago.
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I'll stop the derail now. Sorry guys
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I assume you meant ethnic. Not really. It had a huge class element, and nasty attrocities happened. On both sides, but the victorious "whites" in their anti-communist purges reached a real proto-fascist level. Female combatants and children were executed in a particularly disgusting manner.
Finland would have been messed up for a long, long time, except.... Stalin decided to start the Winter War by bombing Helsinki and other cities. The terror bombing campaign came as a shock to the "Reds", who joined the army and fought side by side with the "Whites". Nothing like a common enemy to start healing the wounds.
Luckily it was all a long time ago.
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I'll stop the derail now. Sorry guys
Yes I meant ethnic, I stand corrected. I knew of the Winter War with the Soviet invasion where the Finns inflicted massive Russian casualties against large odds but essentially lost a lot of territory through weight of numbers. I had never heard of the Finnish civil war before you mentioning same, so no real Russian settler element in the mix just Finn against Finn. Yes, civil wars are particularly nasty and vicious and we experienced one ourselves in Ireland right after the Treaty with Britain due to the conditions set out in same. My own family were split during same and ended up on opposing sides, brother against brother, this was repeated across the country. The Finnish one looked particularly bloody.
Pointless, it would not be legal and no one can check if the votes are fraudulent, as you need police and various agencies to make certian no one tampers with the ballots boxes and the votes are genuine and not massed produced by the SNP. Now the SNP are not even trusted by most Scots who are now angry the SNP have ignored their last vote to stay in the UK Union, Just as the SNP ignored the Scots who voted with the rest of the UK to Brexit as that was a UK referendum not a Scottish referendum.
I place bets that May will hold a snap General election to see if Scots vote out SNP msps before the Brexit deal ends, killing off any Referendum. She is turning out to be a clever authoritarian leader that will not give way and the Brexit talks will either make her or break her as another Thatcher.
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International community and OECD.
irrelevant
It's Part of UK law that Scotland and England signed up to 100's of years ago when they created the Union. We saw the Judges in action telling scotland can not be part of the Brexit talks as it was a UK government thing, hence their threat of a referendum. Judges will also tell them that UK law states the UK government can only give them their referendum, which they will do AFTER the brexit talks. SNP accept this they have clearly stated on the TV they will wait. They Know the law.
Saying that, as the EU, the SNP and others are trying desperately to stop us leaving the EU , i am waiting to see what they get up to next as the SNP are all out to try stop Brexit and many in the EU in the UK are trying very hard to do anything to stop Brexit and the referendum is just one of the tactics they are using. All very amusing to see how they are all on their knees crying and begging us to stop.
Soon as the EU collapses this nonense will stop.
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Irrelevant to Scotland you mean, the Scots have plenty of options, call a ref under international supervision as I stated or just declare a UDI as a last resort. What is Westminster going to do, dismantle the Scottish parliament and send in the military. They tried that in Ireland and they still had to go home in the end.
verminstar
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We are addicted elections all of a sudden...glad to see thats not looking likely here again, waste of time and money. I think scotland should have another indypoll, just not right now so clear enough I agree with May. Juggling internal issues on the eve of activating art 50? How in hell can this non elected PM be expected to concentrate on the most important while everyone else stamping their feet and demanding immediate 100% attention right now? Not really a good idea to be multitasking that many major crisis all at once...means everyone gets a bad deal.
You are not listening, the SNP will not call a vote now, because they have said they can not call a refendum with out UK permission, because of the United Kingdom Constitutional Law. They , the SNP have stated on TV they will wait. So your point as i said, is irrelevant.
N ireland have also asked for one, they were told NO last week because the majority their dont want a vote.
Scotland will get a vote but after Brexit, because we all know in the UK the SNP want a vote only to try cause total obstruction to the Brexit talks. The SNP can ignore the majority of the UK that voted out, but they can't ignore the UK law.
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