Again like Britain is responsible for New England or New York in the US, think hard I`m sure you can do better.
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Who had the responsibility for such a decision and why?
General / Off-Topic is scotland leaving the UK?
- Thread starter jmg
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Again like Britain is responsible for New England or New York in the US, think hard I`m sure you can do better.
Who had the responsibility for such a decision and why?
Gordon Brown made the decision and he is............. (fill in the blank with his nationality)
link?.......and also he was UK PM.
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RBS does not operate like the Bank of England does. Scotland cannot borrow, and therefore has none of it's own debt. The debt that is assigned to it is a share of the UK debt. This is not complicated, and has already been explained several times in this thread.
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Oh, that's an easy one! "British". He stated that outright during the 2014 indyref campaign.
Hey look... I know all this is not Scotland's fault (RBS I mean). It's Friday and I was just Jocking with ya'll.
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Fair enough, but your responses actually seem to be the real belief of a lot of your countrymen, that Scotland is responsible for the Royal Bank of Scotland........because its in the name.
Edit - I agree with you in the fact that all of the Zombie banks EU wide, should have been put down.
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Hmm. Doesn't seem to back up what you said, as later in the article
They are simply saying that no existing debt item (contract, if you will) will be transferred. The debt will still exist, UK will still guarantee it, but Scotland will need to reimburse BoE for it's share therefore creating it's own gilts & bills. This share is to be negotiated.
If this is your evidence for Scotland getting out of the union without a share of UK national debt then you're incorrect, I'm afraid.
EDIT: The statement is talking about the bits of paper not being changed, nothing else, and that rUK/iScot will work out their differences in a way that won't affect these.
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The Treasury has pledged to guarantee all of Britain’s debt even if Scotland votes to leave the UK, in an attempt to prevent creditors from pushing up the cost of government borrowing.
In a memorandum sent to members of the financial community this morning, the Treasury has committed to holding all of the UK’s £1.38 trillion in debt, whether or not the Scottish people vote for independence this September.
"In the event of independence, the full spectrum of assets and liabilities - past, future and contingent - would need to be considered in negotiations between the continuing UK and Scottish Governments, on a case-by-case basis," the report states.
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Look at my original point that I quoted previously, then look at the above as detailed. I`ll leave it up to your own comprehension skills, as I said going around in circles is not my thing.
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That last paragraph tells me that full spectrum of assets and liabilities will be considered in negotiations. This includes the national debt. Per my quote:
"An independent Scottish state would become responsible for a fair and proportionate share of the UK's current liabilities, but a share of the outstanding stock of debt instruments that have been issued by the UK would not be transferred to Scotland."
What is happening is that the debt items that the BoE guarantees will not change.
My reading comprehension is fine. You seem to be getting mixed up with the 2 uses of debt here - 1 the money that has been lent to UK vs 2 the actual transactions. Scotland has to take a proportion of 1 ("In the event of independence, the full spectrum of assets and liabilities - past, future and contingent - would need to be considered in negotiations between the continuing UK and Scottish Governments, on a case-by-case basis, the report states.) but the actual debt items 2 are not having their terms changed (The Treasury has pledged to guarantee all of Britain’s debt even if Scotland votes to leave the UK, in an attempt to prevent creditors from pushing up the cost of government borrowing.)
Nowhere in that article is Scotland coming out with a clean sheet.
To add: The gist seems to be the Treasury saying "everything's fine, business as normal" and no referencer is made to what Scotland will actually have to do, as at that point it wouldn't be the Treasury's problem.
Another edit: The "future" component also seems to mean the longer term type 2 debt taken on that will still be outstanding after Scotland goes. It does not mean guaranteeing an independent Scotland's post independence new type 2 debt when you take the rest into consideration.
Edit 3: Dammit, trying to clarify "debt"
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Again its there written in your native language, unable to understand it or unwilling accept it, it`s up to yourself. If you have an issue with the UK Treasury drop them a line and they maybe able to help join the dots for you. Regardless the Scots only need to take on whatever debt liability they wish to accept in exchange for any corresponding assets they wish to have. It`s academic to me I won`t be paying for it, you will. If you want to believe otherwise to rest easy at night, knock yourself out.
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Eh? I've said from my first post that there will have to be negotiation over assets and debts... However, with the part I've put in bold I think that it's going to be more complicated then that. Assets and liabilities are 2 separate things, it's not a simple "oh, we'll put a value on some government services and that's all you'll pay" by the Treasury, as this direct quote from the paper
takes treasury bills & gilts aka national borrowing aka national debt into account. What I quotes verbatim at #188 supports this. Scotland will have liabilities aka national debt to cover proportionally, but the actual debt items themselves (bonds, etc) will not be transferred. EDIT: How this is handled is not covered. The Treasury note is simply covering how this will affect creditors.
Less of the insults, if you please.
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You accept my original post, thanks. Better late than never.
Well, if your original post said that iScotland would owe rUK a negotiated proportion of UK national debt in some form (which is what I was arguing) then it wasn't clear to me.
Hey ho, the joys of typing!
EDIT: . Wording is hard. It's Friday and I'm fried.
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X-Terminator
Banned
I certainly hope so. So powerful was the immortal words in an Australian accent "FREEDOM".
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Take a break friend, relax. My original point is quoted above, agree or disagree its up to yourself. In the end its not worth a pain in the "ceann" as we say, that`s head in Irish. Look on the bright side, if you`re a Scot and you choose Indy, then its not a bad way to start out. On the flip side if you`re south of the border you may have another few quid on your shoulders. Either way I`ll be cheering from the sidelines and enjoying the whole bun fight..
If I was Scottish I'd probably vote out, but I'd be well aware that there would be some carnage... and I'd vote out for similar reasons to my voting remain last year. I have nowt against the Scots, but am just aware that there is no way that they'd be allowed to leave without shouldering some of the cash originally lent to UK as a whole.
Going to be a bit stereotypical here: I'm out to see some friends play a gig later and plan to ingest a couple of scoops of Guinness while I'm there, so up the Irish too.
If I was Scottish I'd probably vote out, but I'd be well aware that there would be some carnage... and I'd vote out for similar reasons to my voting remain last year. I have nowt against the Scots, but am just aware that there is no way that they'd be allowed to leave without shouldering some of the cash originally lent to UK as a whole.
Going to be a bit stereotypical here: I'm out to see some friends play a gig later and plan to ingest a couple of scoops of Guinness while I'm there, so up the Irish too.
I fully expect Scotland to receive some UK assets, and take on a corresponding share of UK national debt. I also expect there to be pension payments and such going both ways for decades to come.
Well, the UK pays pensions to emigrants, sorry, I mean expats, on the continent so there's no reason they wouldn't maintain the pension here. During indyref 2014, they explicitly started that they would (even though Project Fear ran with "lose your pensions!" as one of their scaremongering lies).