exploring still sucks.

God, there's always one isn't there. There's no need for the links. Space isn't a vacuum and it's currently impossible to create a LASER beam with 0 divergence, I know this, but we're talking about LASERs that suddenly lose all of their energy at a range of 3.01km, whilst having enough energy at 3.00km to do considerable damage to the hull of a spacecraft. No. Just No. A million times, No.

Hey, I agreed with you about the gameplay! I'm not defending an arbitrary limit of 3 km. I'd rather the lasers could continue to do reduced damage past their (arbitrarily short) effective range.

But you were acting as if people were idiots for claiming lasers would lose their coherence in a vacuum. The actual answer is that they would lose power over distance, while you claimed they wouldn't. What's wrong with links? Would it be better if I acted like I didn't need a refresher on QM/laser design?

Honestly, a visible laser having a 3 km range makes as much sense as a fusion reactor the size of my couch. Are both based on some kind of science? Kinda, and that's all Braben ever claimed.
 
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exploring is boring cuz there really isn't anything to find or do. Just like trading nothing to do. mining, the same thing. it's always the same thing. exploring jump honk jump honk jump honk jump honk oh an earthlike (they got, what ?1 or 2 different texts about planet when it scanned. Absolutely amazing how lazy that is)... then what? jump honk jump honk.... that's it. That's what the problem is with this game.
Oh and yeah, you can drive around on some planets and shoot at the same old rocks and find the same crap you found on the last planet.

I googled that 300 people are employed at frontier development, i hope this is wrong cuz, What are they all doing? playing SC?

I'll probably try it again when we can walk around and so, whatever is taking so long with that i have no idea, but with the time that's taking im sure its going to be absolutely mind blowing, lol. (Have a look at Hellion, FD could use some of that.)

Don't talk about real physics in the game there is none, and whatever space sim experience there was they threw all that out with the flightmodel they picked ;)
Which brings me to why Elite will never be the great game it once was, I think probably trying to make it easy for people to play and not doing what they really want to do. And that sucks.
 
exploring is boring cuz there really isn't anything to find or do. Just like trading nothing to do. mining, the same thing. it's always the same thing. exploring jump honk jump honk jump honk jump honk oh an earthlike (they got, what ?1 or 2 different texts about planet when it scanned. Absolutely amazing how lazy that is)... then what? jump honk jump honk.... that's it. That's what the problem is with this game.
Oh and yeah, you can drive around on some planets and shoot at the same old rocks and find the same crap you found on the last planet.

I googled that 300 people are employed at frontier development, i hope this is wrong cuz, What are they all doing? playing SC?

I'll probably try it again when we can walk around and so, whatever is taking so long with that i have no idea, but with the time that's taking im sure its going to be absolutely mind blowing, lol. (Have a look at Hellion, FD could use some of that.)

Don't talk about real physics in the game there is none, and whatever space sim experience there was they threw all that out with the flightmodel they picked ;)
Which brings me to why Elite will never be the great game it once was, I think probably trying to make it easy for people to play and not doing what they really want to do. And that sucks.

HAHAHA, they are probably buying and playing Star Citizen while doing this cellphone game.

I never understood if its too dificult to do some gameplay in this game or if they are not capable of doing it. Maybe they are incapable of doing fun gameplay mehcanics, its like the placeholders are here to stay as complete features.

I don't understand this type of developing. Adding recycled shallow experiences every expansion, why? Do they think the game is so fun that its doesn't need mechanics to play with? Please, some of the FD could answer this? Why we don't see any of the activities develop over this 2 years? Even combat is still shallow with all the additions it got. Go here and kill reds until bored...

I think FD is focusing too much on making money and too little in making a good game.

We have a HUGE map to play with jump honk and wait gameplay mechanic, so press of 2 buttons and eyeball mk1. Where're the ship displays when using scaning equipment, where're the probes, where's the POI scanner, where's the research of surface analysis? Common you're professionals don't you? Start showing what you can do and put Star Citizen on shame!!
 
exploring is boring cuz there really isn't anything to find or do. Just like trading nothing to do. mining, the same thing. it's always the same thing. exploring jump honk jump honk jump honk jump honk oh an earthlike (they got, what ?1 or 2 different texts about planet when it scanned. Absolutely amazing how lazy that is)... then what? jump honk jump honk.... that's it. That's what the problem is with this game.
Oh and yeah, you can drive around on some planets and shoot at the same old rocks and find the same crap you found on the last planet.

I googled that 300 people are employed at frontier development, i hope this is wrong cuz, What are they all doing? playing SC?

I'll probably try it again when we can walk around and so, whatever is taking so long with that i have no idea, but with the time that's taking im sure its going to be absolutely mind blowing, lol. (Have a look at Hellion, FD could use some of that.)

Don't talk about real physics in the game there is none, and whatever space sim experience there was they threw all that out with the flightmodel they picked ;)
Which brings me to why Elite will never be the great game it once was, I think probably trying to make it easy for people to play and not doing what they really want to do. And that sucks.
repped
maybe they focuse all Resources and manpower on console ports, maybe now they start working to make elite fun, season 3 must be something good to make me buy it, if it's similar to season 2 i'll skip it.
 
If something isn't great and nothing is done to make it great, it generally doesn't become great.

Is this shocking? Did it warrant a new thread? Should I thank you for the update?
 
this thread was not meant to start up arguments between you guys/gals. why have you taken it down this path. idiots.
it was for idea's for exploring!!
mods close thread please!
 
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Lack of gameplay and cohesive game design.

Everything feels like a repetition of the same task because all gameplay can be summarized as pointing the ship/srv at the target, waiting for the eggtimer to ring, and pressing a button. Literally every activity in Elite is a slight variant of this mechanics.

Everything feels bolted on and mechanics feel disconnected from one another because there is no competent game design and a general lack of vision.

Here you go, all problems of Elite in a nutshell, exploration included.
 
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I said, "Flight model is very accurate with the exception of the maximum speed." But even with that it's very accurate. And I said in an earlier post that the ship's computers are programmed to limit a ship's speed to a maximum amount. It's one value when boost is engaged and another value when boost is not engaged. Turning flight assist off won't override this. The computer will still fire the retro thrusters to slow you down to the maximum. It's a convention imposed by the spacecraft manufacturers. They program their ships with speed governors. Why? I have no idea. I know why from an outside perspective; Game play. But from a lore perspective, I have no idea why they'd do this. But when you take the speed limit out of the equation the flight model is extremely accurate. With or without flight assist enabled.

The collision physics are fairly spot on. You collide with a ship head on when you are both at speed without shields on both ships, bad things are going to happen. I've heard of ships exploding when that happens.

As for the other physics you won't get into, by all means, let's get into them. I've studied this game, the flight models and such and, for the most part, it makes a fair amount of sense. But not on the surface. You have to dig down and really look at it. Pretty much any physics you can come up with that don't make sense, I can tell you why it does. But I do say pretty much. Some of it is just game play and there doesn't seem to be any lore answer. Such as lasers, projectile weapons and speed governors for ships.

Did FD just retconn all the lore when they made ED? In FE2 your ships speed is not limited by any handwavium. You can use your main engine (not hyperdrive and it doesn't have "supercruise") to accelerate to whatever speed you like. There was no lore that capped the top speed of your ship.
 
Did FD just retconn all the lore when they made ED? In FE2 your ships speed is not limited by any handwavium. You can use your main engine (not hyperdrive and it doesn't have "supercruise") to accelerate to whatever speed you like. There was no lore that capped the top speed of your ship.

I don't know what the lore is behind the speed governors. I've searched but can't seem to find a lore explanation. But you are correct. In FE2 and FFE you could indeed accelerate without any speed governors. I think the maximum speed was 3200mps. But it would take you forever to get the ship to that speed unless you used time compression. And If you didn't have an auto-fueller, you'd have to keep refueling your tank from hydrogen stored in the cargo bay. But since we are online, time compression wouldn't work. That, I think, is the reason they put in speed governors.

Edit: I did find a lore explanation. It's as follows. But I think it's just a speculation as this didn't come from the Devs but from a reddit post.

It is an intergalactic law that all vessels be built unable to accelerate beyond a certain speed relative to designated frames of reference, most commonly stable orbit in the vicinity of celestial bodies.
This is to maintain safe traffic, and to prevent wreckage from damaged ships from de-orbiting or escaping into deep space before it is able to be recovered. Ships with larger engines are allowed to cap at a faster speed, since their greater maneuverability will allow them to avoid obstacles more effectively.
 
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I've come to realize, every part of this game sucks. Any one single activity in this game is compartmentalized and repetitive, plays like an arcade game, and ultimately leads to nothing rewarding. The only fun of this game was slowly getting more money to afford better ships, but that's reached it's end, as I have more money than I know what to do with.
 
Lack of gameplay and cohesive game design.

Everything feels like a repetition of the same task because all gameplay can be summarized as pointing the ship/srv at the target, waiting for the eggtimer to ring, and pressing a button. Literally every activity in Elite is a slight variant of this mechanics.

Everything feels bolted on and mechanics feel disconnected from one another because there is no competent game design and a general lack of vision.

Here you go, all problems of Elite in a nutshell, exploration included.

Pretty much this. Nailed it, really.
 
Did FD just retconn all the lore when they made ED? In FE2 your ships speed is not limited by any handwavium. You can use your main engine (not hyperdrive and it doesn't have "supercruise") to accelerate to whatever speed you like. There was no lore that capped the top speed of your ship.

Just curious - was that a single player game? I didn't play it, so I don't know for sure, but there are a large number of things that can be done in a single player game that cannot be done in a multi-player game. If one is able to continuously increase their speed with no real upper limit, then the Combat could very easily devolve into a situation of long stern chases. This isn't to even mention the NPC's being able to do this. Does that sound like it would be fun, or have the possibility of feeling epic? Frontier wanted dogfights, and jousting - something akin to what you see in Star Wars, hence the upper speed limits, and flight model. We can talk about those speeds being too slow (and I would definitely be on board, it's hard for me to consider that my car goes faster than a lot of our ships), but past Elite games really aren't relevant to this particular topic (ship speed and flight model) if they were single player.

This thread is about Exploration, though:

I am curious as to what people think new scanners/scanning mechanics would add to what is currently available in the game. I would say that shortening the time it takes to find things is quite obvious, so what things outside of that?

What would you expect/want to find out by Beagle Point? Does it make sense to find whatever it is out there?

What would you expect/want to be able to do with whatever you found that you cannot currently do?

If they did add (or have already added) something like a Crystalline Entity, would it be ok if it nuked your ship and 6 months worth of Exploration data? Would you really be ok with that rebuy screen?

If they added environmental hazards on planets, would you be ok looking at that rebuy screen knowing that you just lost 6 months of data? I actually think this one is coming at some point.

How often do you expect/want to actually find anything at all?


I have seen a number of ideas in a number of these threads, and while some are really good, most have clearly not been fully considered. I myself have had ideas that fall into both categories, but the issue has more ramifications than a lot of us realize. Some things that people are wanting just aren't feasible because they would be trees that have too many branches.

I would very much like my Exploration experience to be something similar to Star Trek. You get to a place, you find something neat, cool things happen, I can do fun things, maybe some danger, etc. This just isn't feasible, though.

I would also very much like to be in my SRV on a planet, get a notification that a storm is coming, and have to race to get back to my ship (and up out of the storm) before bad things happen. I think there are a lot of people who would also like this kind of experience, but there are also a lot of people who would find it to be annoying, at the very least. Different strokes.

Whether people like it or not, Exploration in this game as it currently stands is pretty close to what actual exploration entails. Except, explorers of our past didn't have Netflix, and current explorers probably don't either. If you disagree, then I think you are perhaps romanticizing exploration a bit too much. Perhaps Frontier agrees, and as such, feels that Exploration is in a good place.

I would say this though - the sandbox is very big, and I do feel that there is a valid point to be made regarding the speed with which we can Explore, and I do think that Frontier should do something that makes sense to address this. The new Engineered scanners are a start, but more is needed.

Riôt
 
Let me take this opportunity to post the same ideas I've been posting every time this issue manages to get on the forums past all the zealots and moderators who can tolerate absolutely no criticism of the game whatsoever.

The forums need clear and specific examples of exactly what features explorers/settlers want to see in the game and how they will work. In the first instance, I suggest (again) as part of an 'Explorers' Season of updates:

•Increase the range of exploration rewards i.e. you get more or bonus information and therefore bonus cash for scanning planets right up close, or scanning a range of latitudes up close, or even specific features of interest. Why not. The planets are already there in enough detail and players can already get right up close to them. It seems a pity that you can scan thousands of star systems without ever really needing to see an unexplored planet as more than a dot.

•Landable planets with atmospheres.
•Mixing terrain types like ice and rock fields on landable planets, rather than having all planets all the same terrain all over.
•Lakes and rivers of liquid chemicals.
•Caves and lava tubes.
•Active or extinct volcanoes, whether of silicon magma, sulphur, water, or whatever.
•Ice-filled craters.
•Dust storms, chemical rain and weather systems based on actual terrain.
•Fixing the planetary illumination bug where obviously more than 50% of a planet can appear to be illuminated by a remote single star.

•Ship-to-ship docking, with direct money, fuel, cargo, material trade options as in space stations. Even repair facilities and transfer of ship modules, SRVs, or of SLFs. Possibly to be developed in conjunction with EVA/walking around ships, even in conjunction with multi-player ships, forming boarding parties to take ships in acts of piracy. If it leads to gold-selling, so what?
•Ship registration numbers.
•A proper in-game HUD colour selector.

•Non-player explorers whom may be interacted with, located in the vicinity of interesting Galactic locations like Sag A or Beagle Point.
•Rare unique 'Treasure Items' like Alien Artefacts, Ancient Artefacts, Crystal Clusters, Unique Artefacts, whatever, that are worth millions and provide an incentive for treasure-hunters as well as explorers to leave the Bubble. Also for pirates.

A variety of exploration modules including:
•Flags. A simple flag to permanently plant somewhere to say you were there. Possibly with a message attached. Until someone pulls it up perhaps.
•Beacons. Placed on planet surfaces or in orbit, Beacons show up on the System Map as a reference point for other explorers.
•Orbital scanners/prospectors. A module that is dropped in orbit around a planet and automatically gathers data from the surface, like materials locations, POIs, barnacles.
•A greater variety of SRVs, specializing in mining, racing, or combat for example.
•Player-deployable/nameable landing pads, serving as temporary/permanent player-to-player trade outposts/caravans with limited station facilities and message boards which players can post messages on. All mats and cargo items have to be delivered by players. A number of these planted within a limited range of each other could form an improvised settlement (named by the player who placed the first pad).
•Automated mining machines. Which could be plundered if discovered. Or merely have a flag planted next to them. Seen what you did there.
•Defensive modules like turrets, player-owned skimmers/sentries, and orbital early warning systems. The first deep space settlements will struggle to support themselves and will be vulnerable to piracy once their locations become known.

Just these few modules would completely open up new possibilities for exploration ships and fleets, particularly when coupled with multi-player ships. And form the basis for colonization of unexplored worlds in future updates; far more interesting than simply using the mechanism of a CG that's simply removed from the Bubble by a few thousand l-y as in Colon-ia. It will also present a whole new field of operations for organized piracy.

But FD do not take any notice of the explorer lobby and have recruited all the wrong people, who have produced a dull game with serious flaws for dull people whose imaginations are limited to blowing each other up over and over again, despite having a whole Galaxy at their disposal.
 
...Orbital scanners/prospectors. A module that is dropped in orbit around a planet and automatically gathers data from the surface, like materials locations, POIs, barnacles...

Agree but PLEASE NO MORE AUTOMATED GAMEPLAY, we have a stupid honk and wait still to scan.

We need actual things to do!
 
I've come to realize, every part of this game sucks. Any one single activity in this game is compartmentalized and repetitive, plays like an arcade game, and ultimately leads to nothing rewarding. The only fun of this game was slowly getting more money to afford better ships, but that's reached it's end, as I have more money than I know what to do with.

Plays like an arcade game. Try turning flight assist off and see how much it plays like an arcade game. You'll be in for a rude awakening. You'll never stop your ship from pitching/rolling/yawing or bring it to a complete stop on any of the forward/backwards, vertical or lateral axes. You might get close, but you will never get the relative speed (on any of the 6 axes) to 0 unless you enable flight assist. The reason is that such requires micro burns for microseconds. Humans just can't be that accurate. But computers can. Which is why they have the auto-stabilization routines of flight assist.
 
Pretty much this. Nailed it, really.

I checked your posting history, but had to give up reading after the first 50 posts. Every single one of them is overwhelmingly critical of FDev and/or the game.

Why do you spend so much time and effort posting about (and, presumably, playing) a game you so obviously dislike? How long will the rest of us on these forums be required to put up with your relentless negativity before you finally find something you enjoy? What are you hoping to achieve?

It wouldn't be so bad if some of your posts were actually positive in some way. But I'm pretty sure not a single one is.

Maybe it's time to give it (and us) a rest?
 
Just curious - was that a single player game? I didn't play it, so I don't know for sure, but there are a large number of things that can be done in a single player game that cannot be done in a multi-player game. If one is able to continuously increase their speed with no real upper limit, then the Combat could very easily devolve into a situation of long stern chases. This isn't to even mention the NPC's being able to do this. Does that sound like it would be fun, or have the possibility of feeling epic? Frontier wanted dogfights, and jousting - something akin to what you see in Star Wars, hence the upper speed limits, and flight model. We can talk about those speeds being too slow (and I would definitely be on board, it's hard for me to consider that my car goes faster than a lot of our ships), but past Elite games really aren't relevant to this particular topic (ship speed and flight model) if they were single player.

This thread is about Exploration, though:

I am curious as to what people think new scanners/scanning mechanics would add to what is currently available in the game. I would say that shortening the time it takes to find things is quite obvious, so what things outside of that?

What would you expect/want to find out by Beagle Point? Does it make sense to find whatever it is out there?

What would you expect/want to be able to do with whatever you found that you cannot currently do?

If they did add (or have already added) something like a Crystalline Entity, would it be ok if it nuked your ship and 6 months worth of Exploration data? Would you really be ok with that rebuy screen?

If they added environmental hazards on planets, would you be ok looking at that rebuy screen knowing that you just lost 6 months of data? I actually think this one is coming at some point.

How often do you expect/want to actually find anything at all?


I have seen a number of ideas in a number of these threads, and while some are really good, most have clearly not been fully considered. I myself have had ideas that fall into both categories, but the issue has more ramifications than a lot of us realize. Some things that people are wanting just aren't feasible because they would be trees that have too many branches.

I would very much like my Exploration experience to be something similar to Star Trek. You get to a place, you find something neat, cool things happen, I can do fun things, maybe some danger, etc. This just isn't feasible, though.

I would also very much like to be in my SRV on a planet, get a notification that a storm is coming, and have to race to get back to my ship (and up out of the storm) before bad things happen. I think there are a lot of people who would also like this kind of experience, but there are also a lot of people who would find it to be annoying, at the very least. Different strokes.

Whether people like it or not, Exploration in this game as it currently stands is pretty close to what actual exploration entails. Except, explorers of our past didn't have Netflix, and current explorers probably don't either. If you disagree, then I think you are perhaps romanticizing exploration a bit too much. Perhaps Frontier agrees, and as such, feels that Exploration is in a good place.

I would say this though - the sandbox is very big, and I do feel that there is a valid point to be made regarding the speed with which we can Explore, and I do think that Frontier should do something that makes sense to address this. The new Engineered scanners are a start, but more is needed.

Riôt
Regarding scanners i agree.
Explorer tools like improved scanners are needed, but even they don't help if there is nothing to find. But from somewhere it should start, i dont want to explore by putting down my graphics settings.
However i disagree that there shouldn't be danger for explorers from space phenomenas like when landing on planets, high temps, black holes....etc.
There should be danger and more challenge while exploring even it means rebuy screen.
You just want point ship and scan, where is the challenge in that! Players would be much more carefull if there iis risk of rebuy screen that it could add more depth.
Even it doesnt mean to destroy your ship, it could damage it so you need to repair it by collecting materials from planets.
You know space itself is dangerous place!
Exploration need challenge and content otherwise it would become boring even with more things to find.
Againg you don't need to face rebuy screen, but your ship can be damaged so you can't travel further until you repair it by collecting materials.
It is funny how ppl call it sim and want it to be sim but fear of rebuy screen and little danger.
 
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