2.1 holding the game back?

Oh, the bellyaching.. I can't take it any more.

Look, The Engineers did not break a darn thing.

What broke anything were the folks who spent countless hours rolling and rerolling and stacking and tweaking and min/maxing their ships to the point that things seem broken.
But there's nothing wrong with the game.
There are things wrong with certain people however, and there is no fix for that... well, there is, but it's frowned upon by law-enforcement.
 
Oh, the bellyaching.. I can't take it any more.

Look, The Engineers did not break a darn thing.

What broke anything were the folks who spent countless hours rolling and rerolling and stacking and tweaking and min/maxing their ships to the point that things seem broken.
But there's nothing wrong with the game.
There are things wrong with certain people however, and there is no fix for that... well, there is, but it's frowned upon by law-enforcement.

Human beings respond to incentives. If the game rewards you for doing X, people will do it.

Designing a system with out taking this into account is Bad Game Design (tm).
 
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I like the Engineers premise. I like having unique places, with unique services. I like the idea of ship customization. This all seemed awesome on paper.

But I don't like casino slot machines. This is where a great idea turned crap. No matter how hard I try, I still can't comprehend how people could leave a feature discussion meeting about this having reached the conclusion that this was a good idea and that players would enjoy it. I simply can't. The casino implementation is half the problem.

The other half of the problem is that some of the buffs are far too extreme. They basically rendered the original ship stats and traits, which was what gave each ship its unique "personality", completely irrelevant. Some buffs are so extreme, that they created a balancing nightmare which is impossible to fix.

This feature should have been implemented with player adjustable sliders. Sliders you push forward would push other sliders back. All the balancing that would ever be needed was to decide which sliders would push what other sliders in the opposite direction. Done. Each would customize his ships in the manner they find most useful for what they plan doing.

This would have been far simpler and much more enjoyable than farming materials for hours and then throwing them away in slot machines until all the bananas aligned. And it would be far less ridiculus too. It would mean that engineers actually were engineers, and you would no longer "gain rep" by consecutively asking them to work for free and repeatedly throwing their work in the can lol. It would actually make sense, which seems the be the thing, "making sense", that is somehow becoming forbidden in this game... "Logic is for nerds" is the new motto. So we get things like this.

But its funny how most of the game's problems and the most jarring gameplay elements emerge as the result of throwing logic away and going for "gamey" instead. :D
 
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. All the little quality of life stuff has been better than the main features IMHO. What else could they of got done without the engineers?

Totally agree with you, the QOL stuff is far more exciting than the fluff rubbish FD insist on adding to the game in an attempt to bring in more players.

I understand they want more money, and that comes with sales , but this fluff is getting annoying.

I can't see the content for all the fluff these days!!!

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Legolas is far more prettier and has better hair than Cameron Po
 
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The root cause being that the boss, DB, never wanted a game, he wanted a vanity project Galaxy to fly though.

I wish that was 100% true i really do, because if it was Exploration would be the forefront of the game and the most developed mechanic but it's not.

Pew pew is king, because it brings the most action and allows the most exciting marketing videos to be made.

Sandro is the lead and he focuses on pew pew because he believes that it's pew pew that makes sales.

I would bet a tenner DBOBE would much rather be a explorer than a pew pew pilot.
 
I like the Engineers premise. I like having unique places, with unique services. I like the idea of ship customization. This all seemed awesome on paper.

But I don't like casino slot machines. This is where a great idea turned crap. No matter how hard I try, I still can't comprehend how people could leave a feature discussion meeting about this having reached the conclusion that this was a good idea and that players would enjoy it. I simply can't. The casino implementation is half the problem.

The other half of the problem is that some of the buffs are far too extreme. They basically rendered the original ship stats and traits, which was what gave each ship its unique "personality", completely irrelevant. Some buffs are so extreme, that they created a balancing nightmare which is impossible to fix.

This feature should have been implemented with player adjustable sliders. Sliders you push forward would push other sliders back. All the balancing that would ever be needed was to decide which sliders would push what other sliders in the opposite direction. Done. Each would customize his ships in the manner they find most useful for what they plan doing.

This would have been far simpler and much more enjoyable than farming materials for hours and then throwing them away in slot machines until all the bananas aligned. And it would be far less ridiculus too. It would mean that engineers actually were engineers, and you would no longer "gain rep" by consecutively asking them to work for free and repeatedly throwing their work in the can lol. It would actually make sense, which seems the be the thing, "making sense", that is somehow becoming forbidden in this game... "Logic is for nerds" is the new motto. So we get things like this.

But its funny how most of the game's problems and the most jarring gameplay elements emerge as the result of throwing logic away and going for "gamey" instead. :D

Spot on, as usual. +rep
 
I wish that was 100% true i really do, because if it was Exploration would be the forefront of the game and the most developed mechanic but it's not.

Pew pew is king, because it brings the most action and allows the most exciting marketing videos to be made.

Sandro is the lead and he focuses on pew pew because he believes that it's pew pew that makes sales.

I would bet a tenner DBOBE would much rather be a explorer than a pew pew pilot.

and sandro forgets something...mmo's live from the casuals...not hardcore:p
 
Long time lurker here.

I have logged about 2 weeks of in-game time (90%+ in open) on PC and I can't say it has affected my experience in any negative way so far since returning to the game.

I only have a level 1 roll for my FSD range and it has improved my playing experience when moving around the bubble in my ASP no end.

I rarely see another CMDR never mind one who wants to blow me up. Sure I see the youtube videos like everyone else but from my perspective at least engineers is a great addition to the game.

I suppose I am potentially in the silent majority who quietly go about their business with the game rather than logging onto the forums to give Frontier a piece of my mind.
 
But its funny how most of the game's problems and the most jarring gameplay elements emerge as the result of throwing logic away and going for "gamey" instead. :D

I agree with pretty well all of your post but I also think that had it been implemented in the way you suggest there would just be a different group that wouldn't like it. I don't mind the randomness & extreme amount of work (or luck) required to min/max the mods, principally because I don't min-max to that extreme.

Swings & roundabouts.
 
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I got 45 LY on my Asp.
I got Ion Distruptor Shockmines which aren't quite as nice as I would like, but they're good.
I overcharged my multi canons and that seems to work, but some buddies say I should get efficient ones instead. Too much jitter and unreliability in the overcharge ones. Whatever.

It seemed to me like I could get something good, but have to give up something.
And then the randomy thingys fiddled with that base premise a bit.
I could pick a secondary effect, but I had to give up some rep with the engineer.

I thought the RNG factor was a barrier to entry.
You get some stuff that is absolutely worth having, but the if you want the best possible, it's going to be a big slog.
Those who play the game broadly and put in a lot of hours are likely to get the best.

I've taken a lot of convincing about engineers.

It was only Massive D's video on engineering a Type 7 for survivability in a PvP environment with high capacity trading.

And then I got it. I got why they put in the RNG gate. I got what they were thinking.
There are problems with the Engineers.

But I don't view all CMDRs as equal. And I don't think we should all get access to everything.
Some content should be for those who came early. Or played more. Or dedicated themselves to getting good at one thing. Or became strategists. Or just raw effort. Or luck. Was in the right place on the right day and it rained frogs and they became emperor
 
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I wont spend another penny on ED until the engineers is dealt with.

NUKE' EM TILL THEY GLOW!!!

Seriously folks, what did you think was going to happen when the introduced weapons/defensive mods? Nurf, buff, nurf, buff... The more complicated the mods, the more you nurf/buff. The games changes, new stuff added - nurf/buff again. People complain about the nurf/buff, they nurf/buff again. One players balance is another players unbalance.

The worst of all is the wasted time gathering engineering components and then the nurf hammer hits and they don't work as well so they are discarded... Time wasted.

I predicted all of this when I learned the preponderance of engineering was going to be weapons/defensive items.

I enjoy modding the ships, but PVP has basically gone down to upgrade in a certain way or die... Skill still matters, but less so now.
 
Why do people even care about engineers, all it does is let you get credits faster which are worthless

oh, forgot about the RP people who like exploration tho
 
I enjoy modding the ships, but PVP has basically gone down to upgrade in a certain way or die... Skill still matters, but less so now.

I saw recently a post saying that there will be a new descent game if the kickstarter succeeds. I dont know how many here played it, but descent 3 Multiplayer deathmatch was an absolute blast. I hope to be the one of the first in line for the playable release.
The weapons were elaborate and complicated, but consistent in effect and a lot of fun to use. I was only an average player, but i didnt mind losing when i did because i knew the other player had access to the same ships and weapons i did. If i lost it was because someone had more experience using a weapon type or combination or just had more skill than i did.
The deciding factors in elite dangerous, and sometimes these things are decided by narrow margins, are dumb luck and stolid perseverance in the face of mind numbing tedium.
ED doesnt have real PVP, what ED has is Player vs the Engineers.

EDIT: Just checked youtube and apparently its descent3 im remembering not descent2 above corrected accordingly.
 
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Mhe. I only play Solo, so the balance nightmare that RNGineers breed doesn't really affect me. What I do like about them is they pushed me into game-play I didn't normally participate in. What I didn't like about them is that I needed a 3rd party website to tell me how to do them.

IMHO, the game has larger problems than PVP that's dull.
 
Engineers would have made the game better if the changes were easier to obtain, only cosmetic and more controllable. Problem is they want to keep cosmetic changes behind pay wall so no one can give the pay to win statement with things they sell, but that means now that in-game earned enhancements are likely always power gaming and not say just pink lasers.

For me it has not ruined the game at all as I am not competitive against other players but I can understand it may be frustrating to those that are.
 
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I like Engineers because I want to customize my ship, choose your own path, right? And without the mods PvP is useless. But it's an absolute grindy nightmare of chance and I'd rather grind my time doing other things. That said, why cant we just have thousands of different modules for sale in the outfitting shop? For example, there should many different varieties of FSD's at different prices for you to choose from; one gives you more distance, another charges quicker but doesn't go as far, one uses less fuel at the expense of distance and charge, the really expensive one gives you a buff of all FSD traits, and so on and so on....I'd much rather spend my time and credits in the outfitting shop trying out different things than being sent on endless goose chases so I can roll some dice and get hosed over.
 
what if, crew aboard a ship decided the engineered capacity of ship systems?

Like, if you have an engineer player. He tinkers with the engineers and gets a 40% increase to range? He tinkers, optimizes, uses various engineeranium mined from planets.. A skilled weapons officer uses offensanium mined from planets / asteroids to make weapons better since he's skilled at that stuff. Engineering takes care of heat management, using some computer panels... Could have science officer using some shieldonium mined from planets / salvaged from ships etc to upgrade shields, and is responsible to manage shield harmonics during combat...

Many cool things can happen with true multicrew.

Then I woke up. Doesn't hurt to dream :)
 
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