Stream sniped and griefed while showing a newbie how to fly

[Goose4291]

Is there a difference though? Personally I love a duel in any game. Even outnumbered. I was famous in my own little bubble in EVE for going on solo runs or leading small gangs into enemy terrority. The sweet kills we got and the lols we had when we got podded back home.. Marauding around looking for kills got you killed and the loss could put you back several hours or even days. To illustrate how little I care about my pixels, I once for fun during a 0.0 war, dropped a Dreadnought into a complex to solo it and the light hearted abuse I received from corpies and alliance m8s when I lost the Dread was staggering lol.
Many years ago I played UK and GE Air Attack and Fighter Ace 1.5. Many hours where spent flying around in a Spitfire Mk14 at ceiling having a smoke, zooming down and killing a wing of players, zooming back into the sky and being abused terribly. Being top of the leaderboard just stopped being fun. Too many people got upset, and that was a level playing field.
The issue I don't get is the MMO zerg mentality applied to Elite. Grind like crazy, get the best gear, wing up with other likeminded souls, go gank everything in sight without risk, just to pee them off because currently there's no other reason to do it.

(edited for several typos.. :/ )

My point was more about the last post in that reddit chain 'I dont always win, and I've been ganked more than once and learnt from it' in Naval Action vs. The blurring of real world effort and virtual death of the ED post.

A better example, I (in a Surprise) early on was operating behind french lines. I was raiding and taking prizes of their merchant ship sailing players left, right and chelsea.

How did the french player base react?
Firstly they put a warning out a lone brit was operating in the area
Secondly, they chased me out with a 'gank' team
Thirdly, they organised convoys with escorts to reduce the chance of this happening again.

All the while, both sides were having good banter over it all (One chap even jokingly responded as I took all his days game effort off of him 'that'll teach me for sailing by myself')

How do you think a similar scenario would play out here?

 

[space pilot]

Just like they do in real life with its rules? Because last I checked the murder and violent crime rates for the globe weren't zero.

That's a silly, straw man argument. It's not binary, like a choice between murder and no murder.

 

[RamirezKurita]

I get that, I really do, but at the moment it's balanced on the level of making griefers think they're PVP gods, and making new traders who think open might be more interesting hate the game. It's hyper-unrealistic. Going along with the escape pod lore even, if you blew up someone's car IRL with an RPG, when no one was in it, and everyone knew it was you, you would either be dead or in prison for years. In ED, suicide in a sidewinder and pay a legacy bounty equivalent to about ten seconds of work, and you're clear.

It's not balanced around griefers, it's balanced around killing being commonplace. In fact, killing ships is one of the most reliable ways to interact with the BGS as killing aligned NPCs reduces their faction's influence; unprovoked attacks are what the game is balanced around. Unfortunately, the special snowflakes then come into the equation and start demanding something to be done because someone killed them without provocation, meanwhile said snowflakes often find it completely acceptable for them to go around mercilessly killing innocents to shift faction influences by a few percent. It's pretty difficult to have a C&P system that allows for effectively open war at times while also the system being strict enough to discourage conflict, particularly as players will usually find it acceptable to go around killing others until it happens to them.

 

[Chris Simon]

That's where the problem is. Someone on the other end of a cable is playing the game. That is a real person. Winging up and murdering them does have a real life effect, even if it's just precious time lost. The excuse I hear all the time. Some players, in all games, cannot empathise with others and excuse their troll like, for the lols/salt/blah behaviours with "it's just a game". Yet they don't ask themselves why in a game, they feel the need to gang up on others less able or unable to defend themselves. How is that fun? No risk, no competition, no substantial in game reward, a just "because I can". Which is actually quite sad.

I have read a study about how online games and general "internet anonymity" brings up the true nature of a person. Things that are suppressed by upbringing, education and social connections can emerge and develop freely when a person is safe from any repercussions. (and no, I don't talk about "games make people kill people" nonsense.)
I once called a known griefer a "mass-murdering psychopath" They, and the whole forum with them, seemed to be offended by that. "It's just a game" was their major argument back then, as well. But I stand behind that statement.

I really believe that some people aren't hurting and murdering other people in real life only because it's illegal and impeachable. Normal person doesn't feel a need to hurt other people, and it doesn't matter whether it is in a game or real life.
Mass-murdering psychopath, if they have any sense of self-preservation, also won't murder people in real life, but in a game they can roam freely so they are enjoying themselves.

 

[Goose4291]

I have read a study about how online games and general "internet anonymity" brings up the true nature of a person. Things that are suppressed by upbringing, education and social connections can emerge and develop freely when a person is safe from any repercussions. (and no, I don't talk about "games make people kill people" nonsense.)
I once called a known griefer a "mass-murdering psychopath" They, and the whole forum with them, seemed to be offended by that. "It's just a game" was their major argument back then, as well. But I stand behind that statement.

I really believe that some people aren't hurting and murdering other people only because it's illegal and impeachable. Normal person doesn't feel a need to hurt other people, and it doesn't matter whether it is in a game or real life.

 

[space pilot]

...It's pretty difficult to have a C&P system that allows for effectively open war at times while also the system being strict enough to discourage conflict, particularly as players will usually find it acceptable to go around killing others until it happens to them.

I agree, which is why I've suggested a Social Reaction System. Universal is not, and I say should not be, a feature of ED. But locally, why not NPC gank posses?

 

[AceFlares]

My point was more about the last post in that reddit chain 'I dont always win, and I've been ganked more than once and learnt from it' in Naval Action vs. The blurring of real world effort and virtual death of the ED post.

A better example, I (in a Surprise) early on was operating behind french lines. I was raiding and taking prizes of their merchant ship sailing players left, right and chelsea.

How did the french player base react?
Firstly they put a warning out a lone brit was operating in the area
Secondly, they chased me out with a 'gank' team
Thirdly, they organised convoys with escorts to reduce the chance of this happening again.

All the while, both sides were having good banter over it all (One chap even jokingly responded as I took all his days game effort off of him 'that'll teach me for sailing by myself')

How do you think a similar scenario would play out here?

I agree Goose. I'd probably do similar to you in that game. Your behaviour is much like my Eve illustration and the reaction from the enemy side is pretty much what happened in low sec or 0.0 in EvE, although sometimes the banter could be unpleasant!
However your example is an example of another player cheekily pirating in an enemy zone, taking a risk, and receiving a decent reward, so it's actually a bad example of what happens in Elite! Gankers in Elite do not take risks or receive a reward for killing another player. It's purely for grief. The game design contributes to this I have no doubt. I realised early on there was no point so adjusted my behaviour in Elite accordingly.

 

[space pilot]

[animated gif]

It's telling about the ganker/griefer/PK mentality that it translates across media. It's not about the game; it's about p___ing people off.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

My point was more about the last post in that reddit chain 'I dont always win, and I've been ganked more than once and learnt from it' in Naval Action vs. The blurring of real world effort and virtual death of the ED post.

A better example, I (in a Surprise) early on was operating behind french lines. I was raiding and taking prizes of their merchant ship sailing players left, right and chelsea.

How did the french player base react?
Firstly they put a warning out a lone brit was operating in the area
Secondly, they chased me out with a 'gank' team
Thirdly, they organised convoys with escorts to reduce the chance of this happening again.

All the while, both sides were having good banter over it all (One chap even jokingly responded as I took all his days game effort off of him 'that'll teach me for sailing by myself')

How do you think a similar scenario would play out here?

It can't because of instancing.

- - - Updated - - -

It's telling about the ganker/griefer/PK mentality that it translates across media. It's not about the game; it's about p___ing people off.

Then why do you allow yourself to react? That's the thing that I still don't get - someone get's killed then runs to the forums to post a good long cry. You just opened the salt mine further.

 

[space pilot]

Then why do you allow yourself to react? That's the thing that I still don't get - someone get's killed then runs to the forums to post a good long cry. You just opened the salt mine further.

I don't; I play in solo partially because of the problem. But as to why someone would: To bring attention to it, so it might be changed. Maybe in a year ganking typically results in worse results for the ganker than the gankee. He who salts last salts the longest.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

This is not pvp anymore. This is just griefing. No real penalty. Fix this FD

PvP in many games is just a form of griefing, one players fodder or misfortune to another's entertainment. If you go play DayZ for a bit you'll actually find ED isn't all that bad but yes it could be better.

One common element is developer(s) unwilling to apply "consequence" to players actions, but in doing so they support negative behaviours i.e. playing like an at-dochery attendant. Personally I have no issue with players having their fun but I do expect there to be consequences that means a choice has to be made e.g. if I gank this dude sooner or later they may come back to bite me in some way the game supports.

 

[Dbrn47]

I have read a study about how online games and general "internet anonymity" brings up the true nature of a person. Things that are suppressed by upbringing, education and social connections can emerge and develop freely when a person is safe from any repercussions. (and no, I don't talk about "games make people kill people" nonsense.)
I once called a known griefer a "mass-murdering psychopath" They, and the whole forum with them, seemed to be offended by that. "It's just a game" was their major argument back then, as well. But I stand behind that statement.

I really believe that some people aren't hurting and murdering other people in real life only because it's illegal and impeachable. Normal person doesn't feel a need to hurt other people, and it doesn't matter whether it is in a game or real life.
Mass-murdering psychopath, if they have any sense of self-preservation, also won't murder people in real life, but in a game they can roam freely so they are enjoying themselves.

So what does it say about the people that insist on joining these games/modes even with the knowledge that PvP is allowed and someone may try to kill them? I think it's a bit more than naive to think that every encounter in an Open PvP world is going to be friendly. If you're willing to take that risk, you probably shouldn't complain when the risk manifests.

I'm not a fan of being ganked either, so I remove all possibility of that happening by playing in Solo.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

I don't; I play in solo partially because of the problem. But as to why someone would: To bring attention to it, so it might be changed. Maybe in a year ganking typically results in worse results for the ganker than the gankee. He who salts last salts the longest.

So you play in solo but contribute to the griefer boogie man hysteria? Thank you for confirming my suspicions. Griefers are rare but that doesn't mean that they aren't a small problem. Don't worry I have the first steps in the solution. #1. No more suicidewinder. I stopped using it over a year ago. The bounty hunters aren't a threat but they eat into your time. #2. Improved instancing so players can actually hunt/patrol themselves. Whoever thought having a multiplayer game without dedicated servers was a good idea....just.... These two things would solve a lot of problems and set the ground work for a realistic C&P.

 

[Goose4291]

It can't because of instancing.

I suggest you have a look through the back history of this forum, particularly when any blockade of a CG is done to see the equivalent reaction then.

It's telling about the ganker/griefer/PK mentality that it translates across media. It's not about the game; it's about p___ing people off.

It's telling you assume I'm a griefer/ganker/Death Camp Kommandant because I find your coffee shop psychology over a computer game hillarious and cringeworthy to read.

 

[space pilot]

So you play in solo but contribute to the griefer boogie man hysteria? Thank you for confirming my suspicions. Griefers are rare but that doesn't mean that they aren't a small problem. Don't worry I have the first steps in the solution.

I speak in the theoretical. I know about what it would have felt like to be shot out of the sky on my first day by a ____head, without experiencing it.

#1. No more suicidewinder. I stopped using it over a year ago.

Haha, great. (If this is lost on you, the concept of using a "suicidewinder" makes me want to throw up, because I don't have a basic interest in causing people pain. I know some do, and I don't like those people. This means you.)

- - - Updated - - -

It's telling you assume I'm a griefer/ganker/Death Camp Kommandant because I find your coffee shop psychology over a computer game hillarious and cringeworthy to read.

If it means anything I have a in cognitive psychology. It shouldn't though, as what I studied doesn't really relate to anything I've said here. I assure you a psychiatrist would give you a worse prognosis than I have.

 

[Goose4291]

If it means anything I have a in cognitive psychology.

You certainly do have a in something, I'll give you that.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

I speak in the theoretical. I know about what it would have felt like to be shot out of the sky on my first day by a ____head, without experiencing it.


Haha, great. (If this is lost on you, the concept of using a "suicidewinder" makes me want to throw up, because I don't have a basic interest in causing people pain. I know some do, and I don't like those people. This means you.)

- - - Updated - - -


If it means anything I have a in cognitive psychology. It shouldn't though, as what I studied doesn't really relate to anything I've said here. I assure you a psychiatrist would give you a worse prognosis than I have.

You do know that suicidewinder is clearing your bounty right? Nope took it in the worst way possible because it fits your narrative.
BTW you do know what they say about people that study psychology right? One of the first things they tell you about yourself when you start the course. Cmon if you did get a in any form of psychology you can answer this.

 

[Dbrn47]

You certainly do have a in something, I'll give you that.

 

[Goose4291]

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder329/33260329.jpg

 

[space pilot]

You certainly do have a in something, I'll give you that.

*slaps knee*

You do know that suicidewinder is clearing your bounty right? Nope took it in the worst way possible because it fits your narrative.

Is English your first language? I'll assume not, but in any case I can't tell if you're saying "Suicidewinder does clear bounty" or "Suicidewinder doesn't clear bounty" because the phrasing you used is hard to understand. To an English speaker.

BTW you do know what they say about people that study psychology right? One of the first things they tell you about yourself when you start the course. Cmon if you did get a in any form of psychology you can answer this.

Enlighten me, and us all, please.