Colonia Expansion Initiative - System Growth?

[CMDR LoneZephyr]

Hey to all CMDRs out there in the black! I've got a question about the future of Colonia and maybe a bit of information about the BGS and it's role in the expansion of the area. I'm not sure if this question has been addressed before, if it has please direct me to the thread!

I'm currently a member of PA (Privateer's Alliance) and we currently have a system in Colonia. I've recently made the trek out there and have been doing what I can to support our fledgling faction in the unforgiving frontier that is Colonia. However, I can't help but notice how many systems currently have 4-5 or even more factions within' them, many of which are player factions (if not all). I've also noticed that all of these systems (with the exception of Colonia itself) only have one base inside of them. Currently PA's faction has a pretty strong hold on our home system, but because of our influence level we spread into our neighbor's system unintentionally and actually started overtaking them in influence in their home system. This was a bit of a concern as we would like to remain peaceful and cooperative with our neighbors and not take a system that they worked hard to obtain. Ultimately we ended up in retreat (for unknown reasons) and the system remains in control of the original owners.

With the way that the BGS seems to work at the moment, if we continue to support our faction we will continue to have this issue as the only systems out there are ones controlled by other player groups. I was curious if there was a BGS mechanic that would cause our faction to expand within our own system rather than invade our neighbors system when we get beyond a certain influence. If not by influence, then maybe by the resources that get traded to our base or the amount of missions that are completed?

From the research that I've done, it seems that the best guides out there about the BGS are compiled by player groups and only small bits of information have been given out by Frontier about how it all works. I can understand Frontier's position, but with this new area sprouting up I was hoping that there might be a new mechanic in place that would encourage growth within a system rather than expansion into another. Is this something that is being considered by Frontier? I'm hoping maybe a developer will see this and be able to give us a little insight on how they foresee the future of Colonia playing out. Because if the BGS remains the same, I only see conflict on the horizon for Colonia as there is not a clear path to system development currently in play.

If anyone out there has any insight into this / anything to add, please speak up! I would love to hear the communities opinion on this matter!

Fly safe out there!

CMDR LoneZephyr

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Currently there are no BGS mechanisms for factions to meaningfully improve systems by adding stations or increasing station facilities. The BGS is also designed to have a lot of inter-faction conflict (which is fine in the bubble but undesirable when every faction out at Colonia basically just wants to get along and not particularly expand)

2.3 will give Frontier the ability to add orbital stations without a client patch (as they can currently already add ground bases) which is certainly a pre-requisite for that sort of thing but might not be intended for it.

You can also request CGs to improve or add stations, but there's a long queue for those. (Colonia will be getting a CG in mid April once 2.3 is live to improve facilities, but no more details yet)

 

[dynamicbob]

Hey to all CMDRs out there in the black! I've got a question about the future of Colonia and maybe a bit of information about the BGS and it's role in the expansion of the area. I'm not sure if this question has been addressed before, if it has please direct me to the thread!

I'm currently a member of PA (Privateer's Alliance) and we currently have a system in Colonia. I've recently made the trek out there and have been doing what I can to support our fledgling faction in the unforgiving frontier that is Colonia. However, I can't help but notice how many systems currently have 4-5 or even more factions within' them, many of which are player factions (if not all). I've also noticed that all of these systems (with the exception of Colonia itself) only have one base inside of them. Currently PA's faction has a pretty strong hold on our home system, but because of our influence level we spread into our neighbor's system unintentionally and actually started overtaking them in influence in their home system. This was a bit of a concern as we would like to remain peaceful and cooperative with our neighbors and not take a system that they worked hard to obtain. Ultimately we ended up in retreat (for unknown reasons) and the system remains in control of the original owners.

With the way that the BGS seems to work at the moment, if we continue to support our faction we will continue to have this issue as the only systems out there are ones controlled by other player groups. I was curious if there was a BGS mechanic that would cause our faction to expand within our own system rather than invade our neighbors system when we get beyond a certain influence. If not by influence, then maybe by the resources that get traded to our base or the amount of missions that are completed?

From the research that I've done, it seems that the best guides out there about the BGS are compiled by player groups and only small bits of information have been given out by Frontier about how it all works. I can understand Frontier's position, but with this new area sprouting up I was hoping that there might be a new mechanic in place that would encourage growth within a system rather than expansion into another. Is this something that is being considered by Frontier? I'm hoping maybe a developer will see this and be able to give us a little insight on how they foresee the future of Colonia playing out. Because if the BGS remains the same, I only see conflict on the horizon for Colonia as there is not a clear path to system development currently in play.

If anyone out there has any insight into this / anything to add, please speak up! I would love to hear the communities opinion on this matter!

Fly safe out there!

CMDR LoneZephyr

Players have been listened to by frontier for 2 years, lots of talking about rich mechanics as you describe. So far the actions a little lagging

 

[CMDR LoneZephyr]

2.3 will give Frontier the ability to add orbital stations without a client patch (as they can currently already add ground bases) which is certainly a pre-requisite for that sort of thing but might not be intended for it.

You can also request CGs to improve or add stations, but there's a long queue for those. (Colonia will be getting a CG in mid April once 2.3 is live to improve facilities, but no more details yet)

It seems to me then that all the tools to improve the BGS regarding system development are in place (surface bases) or will be soon (orbital stations). However, it still seems that we will be held back by the requirement of a CG in order to improve the standard of living in Colonia. I was hoping to see a mechanic that would allow players to improve a station / add stations or surface bases simply by supporting the faction of their choosing.

Currently the market has a 'demand' and 'supply' mechanic for each station. The commodities that are in demand all have descriptions that seem to indicate importance in certain areas of development. For example, our current station has a relatively high demand for 'Surface Stabilisers' which have the in game description: "Unique polymer that is injected into the surrounding rock providing a stable environment for construction.". To me this indicates that it is a prerequisite for further facilities or surface bases to be built. Therefore, I would assume that meeting this demand would result in some sort of upgrade for the current station's size or even the establishment of a new base for our faction! However it is not clear that meeting the demands of our station would have any effect on the development of our system other than increasing the influence of our controlling faction.

Another example of how the commodity market could play a role in system development would be regarding agricultural stations. For most of these stations there is a high demand for commodities like 'Crop Harvesters - Agricultural machinery together with spare parts and consumables used for harvesting and packing specific ground-based crops.' and 'Land Enrichment Systems - A soup of carefully designed archaebacteria, lichens, and micro-fauna and their dispersal equipment. Used in terraforming or enriching agricultural land.'. One could imagine that meeting the demands of an agricultural station with regard to these commodities would increase the output of the commodities that they supply, like 'Fruit and Vegetables', 'Grain', and other agricultural products. But again, there is no real indication that meeting the commodity demands for a station has this kind of effect.

It seems that Frontier has set up a decent foundation in the commodity market to establish system growth, it would just be a matter of implementation / communication to the community for it to take off. I'm sure there are concerns about systems expanding too far and having too many stations, but this can easily be resolved by making it harder and harder to add other stations as they are built. Maybe having an equation where you have a limit to the amount of stations depending on the amount of orbital bodies in the system and land-able planets. They could even establish a 'system capitol' that would be the authority station that would be where any effort to improve the system could be focused and efforts at minor stations would simply improve the facilities at that station. There are many many examples of how these systems could be implemented, and doing so would create a level of 'richness' to the galaxy and give players a sense of meaning to their actions in the systems they visit.

I've been thinking about this for a while, as you can probably see by the length of this post, and I would hope that Frontier are considering making changes like these in the near future. But to do this would require transparency as well, because up until now the best information we have about how to influence the galaxy and the factions within it is vague and unconfirmed. We will need clear directions on how we can make a difference in order for a game mechanic like this to thrive and take off within the community.

This has the potential to add a new dimension of play to the game and will help retain players that have lost interest in the same old grind that they have been accustomed to. If anyone else has any suggestions or ideas, please add it to this thread! I would love to see some of the idea's that the community has regarding this!

Fly safe!

CMDR LoneZephyr

 

[Cliché]

That sounds suspiciously like game play. Be careful, commander, we wouldn't want to have any of that! :x [knocked out]

I've been running missions for two weeks and watched the faction influence drop from in the 90's to around 10, and I'm pretty sure it's the broken and not players that are the real problem. It's very disappointing and another one of the reasons I'm taking a break for a while. Got the lifetime expansions pass though, so I'll be back.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

I've been running missions for two weeks and watched the faction influence drop from in the 90's to around 10, and I'm pretty sure it's the broken and not players that are the real problem.

Your not being good at doing something doesn't mean that it's broken.

If your faction is dropping, it's because someone else is working the other factions more effectively than you are. There are indeed faults in the BGS, but not of the type you seem to think exist.

It's also possible to work the BGS in a system and not show up on the station travel report. All you have to do is stay within the one system.

 

[Manticore]

Your not being good at doing something doesn't mean that it's broken.

Word.

If your faction is dropping, it's because someone else is working the other factions more effectively than you are.

Seriously (and probably without modesty) that could be me. I've been making 100 million credits plus per week; it could easily be more because, quite frankly, I've lost count.

Colonia infrastructure still sucks but it's turned into a mission goldmine for me. It's not system influence that matters for that but your rep with factions (and I have made a hell of a lot of allies out here in the past three months).

Missions are great while I wait for 2.3 to drop (and hopefully more Colonia expansion with it) as I don't want to be out exploring 1000LY's from civilisation when the new stuff comes online.

2.3? Bring it on!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I've been running missions for two weeks and watched the faction influence drop from in the 90's to around 10

Was the faction in War in another system?

 

[Manticore]

Was the faction in War in another system?

I would say that's highly possible. There has been a lot of civil unrest out here.

 

[Cliché]

Your not being good at doing something doesn't mean that it's broken.

Lol, you know it's not my personal faction. I don't now how I, personally, could do any better than scoop up and complete every mission (but 1) offered.

If your faction is dropping, it's because someone else is working the other factions more effectively than you are. There are indeed faults in the BGS, but not of the type you seem to think exist.

Yeah, but there isn't supposed to be anyone in the system working the other factions (or so I've read). So it's entirely the causing the situation, although there may be players, or many more players, working factions in nearby systems that is triggering the to expand. As the OP says, they should be expanding in their own system with more outposts and stations. And then keeping with the Spirit of Colonia, expand into empty systems.

Was the faction in War in another system?

Not at the time.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Yeah, but there isn't supposed to be anyone in the system working the other factions (or so I've read).

There are plenty of independent pilots flying around Colonia doing their own thing, though. They might not be intentionally trying to boost a particular faction, but if they just pick up missions at random and the other factions have favourable states, it doesn't always matter - and there's more of them than you. That's why - e.g. - most of the factions present in VY-R d4-443 keep bouncing in and out of Outbreak: no-one's "trying" to do it to them, but it's a natural consequence of the system economy and specifically people picking up highly-profitable Biowaste missions from nearby systems.

The BGS doesn't move except by player intervention - if you watch a couple of the outer systems the influence can stay absolutely static for days at a time because no-one is doing anything influence-relevant there. Also, bear in mind that the BGS has contribution/person/activity caps and these are lower for small systems, so if you're only doing mission running you might not get very far if lots of other people are doing uncoordinated activities.

No war... I can only think of one case recently where a Colonia faction went from 90ish to 10ish in ~2 weeks without a war being involved, and that looked to be a combination of "normal" influence lost while carrying out an expansion in a low-volume system, followed by other factions having better mission availability to follow that up, combined with a poor trading position. Very unfortunate, but entirely normal given the factors at play. (Of course, that doesn't mean we're thinking of the same one)

 

[CMDR LoneZephyr]

I've been running missions for two weeks and watched the faction influence drop from in the 90's to around 10, and I'm pretty sure it's the broken and not players that are the real problem. It's very disappointing and another one of the reasons I'm taking a break for a while. Got the lifetime expansions pass though, so I'll be back.

I've noticed similar influence changes in regard to our system as well, although not quite as large of a swing. This happened after our faction entered a 'retreat' state for an unknown reason. I actually can't find any information about how the retreat state is started or about how to prevent or to end it after it has started. It almost seems to be a way for Frontier to stop player factions from moving into another system without them having to drastically change the BGS, but this is just speculation. Unfortunately, it seems that one of the repercussions of being in 'retreat' is that the amount of missions that are available for our faction has been reduced. Because of this, our neighbor has been gaining influence in our system and no amount of my personal mission grinding has been able to stall this. (other player's could very well be running missions against our faction and nullifying my contributions).

Now, I'm not suggesting that the BGS is broken... just that it will require a bit of a rework if we are to expect Colonia to grow. Right now the BGS encourages conflict between factions and doesn't seem to give a path to system development (at least a path that is publicly known). I'm just worried that things will continue as it is and each faction will have to wait their turn for a CG in order to gain a station or another surface base in their respective system; not to mention upgrading facilities at each respective station.

I'm hoping that the drive for growth in Colonia with prompt Frontier to become more transparent with the BGS and introduce mechanics to grow the systems... but maybe I'm just a dreamer.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I actually can't find any information about how the retreat state is started or about how to prevent or to end it after it has started.

Retreat will go Pending if you have <=2.5% influence in a system with >= 4 factions and don't own a station in that system and are present in at least two systems. If your influence is still below 2.5% (or maybe 5%) when the Retreat ends - usually five days, unless interrupted - you will disappear from that system. Because of the usual delays on Pending states it's quite possible you'll be well over 2.5% by the time the Retreat goes from Pending to Active.

Retreat is a global state but only really applies to one system (like Expansion or Investment) - you can find out which system you're retreating from only by reading the local galnet reports at your stations. Whether you use that information to try to cancel the Retreat or to ensure your influence in that system stays low so you have one fewer system to worry about is an interesting tactical question...

You can prevent it by always being above 2.5% influence in all your systems (easier said than done at times, especially if you end up in a War).

The only way I know to stop it early is to have a War or Election go live and interrupt it - but at least, other than poor mission selection, it doesn't prevent you improving influence through trade, bounty hunting or exploration.

 

[CMDR LoneZephyr]

Retreat will go Pending if you have <=2.5% influence in a system with >= 4 factions and don't own a station in that system and are present in at least two systems. If your influence is still below 2.5% (or maybe 5%) when the Retreat ends - usually five days, unless interrupted - you will disappear from that system. Because of the usual delays on Pending states it's quite possible you'll be well over 2.5% by the time the Retreat goes from Pending to Active.

Retreat is a global state but only really applies to one system (like Expansion or Investment) - you can find out which system you're retreating from only by reading the local galnet reports at your stations. Whether you use that information to try to cancel the Retreat or to ensure your influence in that system stays low so you have one fewer system to worry about is an interesting tactical question...

This is definitely not the case with our faction. We had more influence than the controlling faction (approximately 35% influence) in the system we expanded to when the 'retreat' state was initiated. It was to the point where our own faction was doing missions for our neighbors in order to stem our own growth in their system. We were not in any other system and we are still in retreat as of this post. This is why I believe it is a measure put in place as a placeholder until Frontier makes whatever updates they are going to do with 2.3... or not, just speculating here.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

This is definitely not the case with our faction. We had more influence than the controlling faction (approximately 35% influence) in the system we expanded to when the 'retreat' state was initiated.

You're looking at the wrong system - Privateer's Alliance are present in three systems, and in one of them (Canonnia / Eol Prou IW-W e1-3167) they've hardly ever been above 5% influence the whole time and may well Retreat out of it in a couple of days. See https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/factions/27/history

Also - there can be quite a gap between Retreat going Pending and Retreat going Active: you can easily be below 2.5% in a system, then get into an Expansion, Election, or similar which prevents Retreat going active, then by the time that's over be on 25% and at no actual risk of retreating from the system. That's not what's happening here, but your earlier Retreat state on 26 and 27 March was set Pending probably a week or so earlier, and then by the time it went active (when your Expansion to Canonnia had succeeded) you were back above 5% in Mobia. After two days you then had an Election with Ed's 38 in Mobia interrupt the Retreat while you were above 5%, so you stayed in the system.

 

[CMDR LoneZephyr]

You're looking at the wrong system - Privateer's Alliance are present in three systems, and in one of them (Canonnia / Eol Prou IW-W e1-3167) they've hardly ever been above 5% influence the whole time and may well Retreat out of it in a couple of days. See https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/factions/27/history

I didn't actually notice that we were in E1-3167. That explains why we went into retreat... thx for the link to that website, I didn't even know it existed.

Regardless of this though, with the current BGS, we will continue in this cycle of expansion / retreat / boom / expansion / retreat... repeat... I guess that's why I started this thread, I don't see a way out of this cycle of perpetual conflict between player groups unless there is a clear-cut way to develop a system rather than attempting to expand into another one.