It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

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Then write some Galnet articles. Or find out who Drew Wagar is and what he's been up to for the past year.

2) Powerplay + Engineering: There's enough criticism out there. From the endless grindfest of Powerplay to the PvP-Balance gap of Engineered/Unengineered and need to do grindfest material gathering. The latter was patched to be made easier, but its still concerning on how the first iteration even came about. But, as said, not going into depth here. Powerplay was a missed opportunity and Engineering feels like forcing horizon(planet)-content.

No argument from me here, I'd like to see both things reworked or improved upon. Powerplay at *least* needs an "intuitivity" pass, and Engineers - well, there's lots of suggestions, many made by myself elsewhere.

3) Holo-Me. Finally! We have our character creator! It's well done and the transitions are nice, cudos to the programmers/artists/sound-designers. But now, after waiting half a year... microtransactions! Not a single available tattoo?

I didn't notice the tattoos were microtransactions, I coulda sworn there's free ones for the neck/eyes/face...but...big deal.

Completely basic suits? I don't care you want to earn money with microtransactions, but to bring out such a anticipated feature with, in the end, half baked customization, feels awkward. It's a nice character creator, but it feels like theres not much, especially due to face limitation. I know, we don't see the character anyways, but if we already have a face-concentration, why are there so few options available? Like mentioned, no tatoos, no... future piercings, whatever the heck you can want. Again, it feels somewhat barebones and too limited. Why do I have to pay for some black ink in my face? Why are there just simple color variations of the most basic outfit? You really couldn't offer at least some *simple* alternatives? It feels... well, like a missed opportunity?

Make a list of suggestions for Holo-Me in the suggestions area.

4) Multi-Crew. Yay, a friend can fly around with me! And... shoot some stuff with cannons. I really don't know what I expected. It's somewhat fun, but in the end... its... well... a missed opportunity for something more.

There's a lot of potential for multicrew, that's for sure...mining is the one that catches my imagination most.

5) Planets. The current iterations we have. The great driving around on planets with some bases. So you obviously have a procedural generation for the planets. Who basically all look the same as they are moons. And don't feel different... as they are moons. It's fine. I accept that. But again, everything feels absolutely the same. There's no difference from Moon A to B in terms of gameplay except some materials you actually scope (and the ruins-events). Missions on moons feel barebones too. Why aren't, at least in the bubble near populated systems, some generated human bases with turrets and protective fliers?

I've found quite a few of bases, with turrets and protective fliers, as POIs...and there's also settlements...and surface ports...? Have you just not found any yourself? I'm not even a big fan of driving around in SRVs, myself....

6) Ship Customization. Well, I literally can't do anything without buying anything out of the store with additional money. Theres not even anything ingame to obtain to customize my ship. What is this? Why, just why, aren't there some goals? Your playerbase is big. There aren't only grinders who try this game out. You have to hook people to want some progression other than money(and thus ships). Its like the most basic concept one can think of. What happened here? Its, again, a missed opportunity and makes it feel even more cash-shoppy.

Meh. If all they're monetizing are cosmetics, out of all the potential other ways to 'ask' for money (can you imagine if Elite had "premium time"?), it does not bug me in the slightest. Ten minutes in just about any other online game available cures any annoyance I have that I won't be putting a spoiler on my Python without forking over a dollar or two.

Like, if they decide to offer *some* cosmetics as rewards for certain things, like honorary military ranks, that'd be neat of course, but it's not a big deal to me.

7) Background-Simulation. What is actually happening here? In the terms of "what does it actually do" ?. What is your code doing? We obviously don't have something persistent thats interacting with the players at all. We have some number tweeking with wares and minor faction influences and their spreading. Different people will have their own reasons to join powerplay and help minor factions, mainly due to roleplay reasons. That's cool, at least. But the Background-Simulation really feels to fall flat and to serve no real purpose concerning wares and trade.

I'm going to be lazy and just say there's good explanations of the BGS available somewhere.

But Minor Factions! I can have my own? AWESOME. Except for people who have to wait over 3 months to have it inserted. I simply can NOT comprehend how the insertion can last this long. I'm still waiting and I have no problems doing so, but others clearly want them integrated. So, you obviously have lists every time of, lets say, 30 new minor factions of players. You can't tell me that you can't take one guy after checking availability to simply insert them into the game for the next update. There has to be some interface in your code for this. There must be. I can't believe that you are writing code snippets for every insertion. Where is the automated system after accepting and checking? (Or even accepting and checking too).

This, I admit, is a pet peeve of mine, even though I'm just some solo schmuck. I think this might be an area where, like I pointed out regarding Multicrew rewards, Elite would benefit by looking at a certain, ancient java game called Puzzle Pirates and how they have crews and flags and so on. The backlog for player group creation and faction insertion is just outrageous, I really think Fdevs should take the time to focus on creating a system in the game to deal with the act of forming player groups and playing as a minor faction. Even if it still took a day to chew through and safely integrate with the BGS, that would exponentially better than taking 3-6+ months at a time - sometimes just for each step in the process....

That and not making the community managar deal with all the player groups by himself on top of all his other duties. That job needs a dedicated attendant.

8) 3rd-party Tools. Half of the time when trading I have to check on another website OUTSIDE the game where I can get something. Why? Its some g time in the future where everything is connected in some way(see Galnet) - But there is no ingame function to actually check that stuff? This seems like the first thing stations would want to publish to sell goods and get more traffic. Not to mention resource-route determination. Why do I have to switch OUT of the game to get stuff done efficiently? You clearly want me to loose every immersion possible, right? Failed opportunity.

An ingame version of eddb.io and so on would be cool and all...but I can also just use eddb.io. Browsing the internet = browsing the galnet, as it were; it would be REALLY NICE if Fdev would open up trade markets and outfitting services with the API, though....

Having a laptop or using borderless windowed mode helps.

Something is clearly wrong.

I can condense the rest of your post into two words: "I'm frustrated." Simple, to the point, no insults, saves time.
 
They don't HAVE ten years. They probably don't have TWO years. So much good will gone now. Bored players frustrated with placeholders and shallow Mechanics.
It might not be fair. It.might not suit their neat little ten year whatever. But the REALITY of the situation is that, without major, sweeping improvement, this game won't make it FIVE years. More less ten.
Right? Fair? Maybe not. But it's the truth regardless. When you.invite people to play an early version of your game you risk driving them off with shallow, Early Access mechanics still in development. Frontier chose that risk, and it's bitten them now.

The only truth here is that you've been doing nothing but salty doomsaying on the forums here for weeks now with no end in sight. When are you just going to go play Mass Effect: Andromeda? Or Eve online? Or is it that you're one of the Star Citizen hopefuls?

Time is definitely always working against them, that much is true. The rest of what you say is purely your own personal opinion, and it's not one I share at all.
 
Lol, most of the stuff people here feel entitled to have been explicitly and clearly mentioned over and over and over again to not be in full release, and to come bit-by-bit in the many years following release. Again: feel more than welcome to accuse me of white knighting or other personal insults as is popular here, and feel free to be as unhappy as you want to be and entitled to whatever you want to. My position is that that only leads to frustration, rage and general disappointment in a time where we have a spacegame that is much better than until recently people could have hoped for. Your choice.

Great example of a false dilemma -- you have the choice of a deeply flawed Elite or no Elite at all.

There are other choices of course, such as an Elite that makes quality and polish in its social environment as important as it does (at excels at) in its physical environment.
 
I vaguely recall a comment that was made pre-Horizons launch, possibly even pre-announcement. I think the implication was that the mechanics of exploration, they're happy with and it is now left to fill out content.

Even the mechanics need filling out IMHO. Why can't we extract Geological Samples from planetary surfaces, that will help increase the value of our exploration data? Why can't we use discovery scanners to narrow down the locations of interesting PoI's on planetary surfaces? Why can't we have science modules to process primary scan data.....so we can find out enough about a planet at a distance to determine if we want to explore it in more detail?

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Great example of a false dilemma -- you have the choice of a deeply flawed Elite or no Elite at all.

There are other choices of course, such as an Elite that makes quality and polish in its social environment as important as it does (at excels at) in its physical environment.

I don't consider Elite to be "deeply flawed". I consider it a Work in Progress. Now they have all their promised headline features out the door, I do believe it is the best time to turn attention towards fleshing out the stuff which is already in the game.
 
Tell me, how would the introduction of new things to pew at fix "everything"? How does it add lacking social features? How does it redesign RNG mission generation promoting board refresh, because anything else is an insult to player time? How does it fix that apparently hour clocks for inventory management were considered acceptable by Frontier? How does it fix that they have so far failed to introduce Wing support for missions? How does it fix that missions revolve around shoving loading screens in your face and looking for RNG things with poor directions? How does it fix that a new shiny coop feature is gimped, because Frontier apparently cares far too much how new players progress in the game (read: Oh noes! Newbs can get credits fast without playing a 1000 hours first? Better duck up multicrew payouts even for veteran players. That'll fix it!) How are Thargoids fixing that Frontier has deviced three different loading and restocking mechanics for the similar launchables: limpets, SRVs and fighters, with limpets being the most overconvoluted implementation for dronws they could've gone for. How are Thargoids fixing lack of game mechanics in multicrew besides shooting turrets and controlling fighters?

Hoping that Thargoids are going ot fix anything seems a bit starry-eyed to me. New nice things to look at. Probably entertaining things to shoot at. Same barebones fundament.

Well, everybody wants different things. This is the problem with trying to simulate a galaxy. I couldn't care less about half the things you mention. Thargoid war would work for me!
 
Ohhh, this sounds like an absolutely great game. Pity you failed to mention the minute details of missions feeling like they revolve around watching a loading screen for 90% of the time or looking for some RNGenerated thing (kill n of X in Y time, where X hardly ever spawns and you have no solid information where to look in the first place), discouraging coop PvE features by means of gimping payouts or outright lacking support for the feature (wing missions anyone?), omitting social features like proper inter-instance global and system chat, failing to provide player group functionality, wasting player time with RNGenerated missions that don't even fill fraction of their potential cargo hold reliably which leads to such attrocities as the mode-hopping and board refreshing, wasting player time on potential RNGineered module downgrades as reward for substantial player time investment, wasting player time by means of having no crucial information available ingame about availability of wares and prices. Did I mention watching oh so many loading screens in order to drive home how big the game is?

You know, what you describe above sounds splendid as backdrop for a game on paper. You only forget to describe the game. The "what do you do" and "how do you do it?". Those minute details that make or break the game design.

Well, that's what I call an overkill. +1 rep.
 
Galnet could benefit from 2 things-a text to voice option (I'd love to listen to Galnet on long Super cruise journeys), & a hyperlink function that can help trigger mission offers or tip offs under certain circumstances.
 
Well, everybody wants different things. This is the problem with trying to simulate a galaxy. I couldn't care less about half the things you mention. Thargoid war would work for me!

Pray to Frontier then, that the same things that led to those issues which (from the outside) seemingly persist through the whole development process of Elite Dangerous do somehow, magically, result in a fulfilling, well balanced and deep thargoid war implementation.

Cynical pessimist outlook for "Thargoid War": every other week, a "Thargoid combat zone" spawns at another place in the Pleiades. Instead of the ususal ship repertoire, you get tough Thargoid spawns and have to collect "kill X Thargoid" combat bonds, that you can trade in at a station for credits. Will be the same shallow "pub brawl with arcade Spaceships" mechanic the game currently has for CZs, any mission revovling around it will also lack Wing support and every other week you get a Galnet report telling us how the war is going. Much exciting, many game design.


It doesn't do to just put your head into the sand and claim that none of the existing issues are relevant for you. That doesn't make them any less of an issue.
 
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But didn't Michael Brookes say a long time ago that he considered exploration as feature complete?

That is not what he said, and this is exactly why devs tend to not say anything anymore. He said the basic mechanisms are solid, which they are. Dont expect anything to change as to how you go to a system, how you move into a system, how you discover a planet and how you land on said planet. Those 'core mechanics' as he called them will almost certainly remain as they are. That has nothing to do with adding stuff.

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Pray to Frontier then, that the same things that led to those issues which (from the outside) seemingly persist through the whole development process of Elite Dangerous do somehow, magically, result in a fulfilling, well balanced and deep thargoid war implementation.

Cynical pessimist outlook for "Thargoid War": every other week, a "Thargoid combat zone" spawns at another place in the Pleiades. Instead of the ususal ship repertoire, you get tough Thargoid spawns and have to collect "kill X Thargoid" combat bonds, that you can trade in at a station for credits. Will be the same shallow "pub brawl with arcade Spaceships" game the game currently has for CZs, any mission revovling around it will also lack Wing support and every other week you get a Galnet report saying how the war is going.

I dont care. If they give it the best AI they can and tough outfitting/flight models/etc, I'm up for it. Because to me, depth comes from the flight model, AI, loadout considerations etc. That is infinitely more important than getting more fake money with MC.
 
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I’d like to argue against this, but it’s hard to given Frontier’s actions and update history. In one of the latest livestreams the absolute most enthusiastic Sandro ever got was while talking about potential micro transaction revenue streams from the 2.3 update. He had lots to say about the commander creator and the DLC for it and even visibly got excited when speaking about it. Questions about most actual game issues were met with either a “no comment” or a “never thought about it” or even a “maybe someday”, some of these questions were extremely common ones amongst the players too. What this behavior says to me is that Frontier is more concerned with keeping the shareholders happy than making the paying customers happy. I might be wrong, but based on what I see, this is how it appears.

Sadly my impression of the game’s development seems to mesh fluently with Frontier’s actual development history on Elite thus far; preferring to work on marketable shiny new features to generate sales and revenue rather than game mechanics for the people playing the game. Updates go live with a plethora of known bugs, features get reduced in scope to improve release dates, broken or unpopular features continue to be neglected to instead work on brand new features. Actions speak louder than words sometimes.

That’s not to say that there haven’t been some great new things added to Elite since 1.0, there have been, it’s just that they’ve been the exception rather than the norm. The dedication of dev resources has seemed very slanted in one direction while neglecting others. From an art and sound point of view Elite’s development has been outstanding, top notch in the industry honestly, but from a game mechanics or gameplay point of view it has been less than stellar and oddly often misdirected compared to what the game really needs.

It makes me feel like Elite is a football team of best in league superstar players being led by a first year rookie high school coach. Sure now and then a player will make a great play due to skill and heart alone, but overall the plays being called are keeping them from ever making the playoffs, let alone the Superbowl…

The last month or so has really changed my impressions and feelings towards FDev, and not in a good way. The feelings are very similar to the whole Atari Roller Coaster Tycoon World debacle and the way Atari has responded to their players and critics, which the irony is not lost that it ties loosely to FDevs other product...Planet Coaster.

https://forum.rollercoastertycoon.c...r-Tycoon-World-Trolls-and-Planet-Coaster-quot

https://www.n3rdabl3.com/2016/12/16...ercoaster-tycoon-world-trolls-planet-coaster/
 
But didn't Michael Brookes say a long time ago that he considered exploration as feature complete?

No, he said that they are happy with the way exploration works in general. Flying into unexplored star systems and finding stuff with scanners. He didn't say they aren't going to add / overhaul these scanners and that they will not add more stuff to find. In fact they already added new scanners and new stuff to find since he said that.

Lol, ninjad by sleutelbos :D
 
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I love this game but the main problem with it (which I agree with most points discussed in this thread) is that they designed it like being a "Free to Play" game and that while being a full paid one with an expansion later on. They are using a Free To Play model with endless grinding to get mundane stuff (the regular things in the game, ships, modules, etc) and then micro-transactions for things that after all that grind would make more sense to have them in the game as a prize for your hard work. But all that hard work is for the same stuff over and over again, with overpriced components that costs more of the ship alone...which to me up until this day makes no sense at all.
"Play 200 hours to buy a Cutter, now to make it better play double the time to upgrade it"...Does that make any sense to anyone of you? Yet up to this point we are used to it, to the grinding and the way you achieve your own personal goals, "mundane" goals, such as having a certain ship and make it better. There is nothing more then aside from that.

But I understand that this game is constantly evolving and moving forward, for the better or for the worst in some cases, and I understand why they need to put micro-transactions...but don't like the way they are doing it. You paid for an expansion to get content but you get features instead as actual "content"..."digital goods" in games are the things that we are used to pay in every game we play, you pay for an expansion and you know that you are going to get a story and new gadget (like The Witcher, a full story with new weapons and armor sets, you get also more level and get stronger with better stuff...all in the same package).

What we end getting with every patch is a "new method" for grind (or a new reason to do more grinding), either they raise the benefits in credits in one patch, they lower it in the other, or they reduce rank progression (like in this patch) that gives you nothing more than slightly "better grinding" (high pay and that's it, non actual rewards...for that you have the other type of grinding called "Powerplay") or access to certain systems that have nothing special aside from the lore value behind them.

At this point I have the ships I want, I have enough money to do some other things, we all can do other stuff without the need of grinding or repetition, but the game aside from giving us ships and parts it lacks a lot of tools to do more things with the environment and to interact with it. Which is the main thing that brings the fun into open sandbox games, TOOLS to do other things aside from thinking into earn this or that...I just want to do, to play with what I want...give me something to play with. A kid without a toy can play with sand with his sands and make mountains (or a mess), you give them a shovel and a bucket and they can build little castles in the sand...
We probably have the shovel but we also need a bucket...and that is where the game is failing to deliver something more.

This is totally personal as I play Solo 99% of the time aside with a couple of friends in Groups, but if this game was single-player alone the main structure of it is not that bad, it lacks the tools to do more things aside of what the game "forces" you to do for then get this or that.
Repetition is the main problem if you are forced by your own desire of getting something one way or the other. Every task in the game is extremely simple, trading is as simple as going to a base, buy stuff, fly to the other system, get into base and sell, repeat on and on. That is trading (which I'm doing now to get Elite in 3 more days hopefully). It is the same in real life tho, as I worked as a courier in real life...go figure I play a game in where I basically do the same as in real life...crazy I know, haha!

The game lacks more tools as I said or means to do the same kind of tasks, I said multiple times that for mining it can be done on planets and I repeat on and on how planets are not being used properly, how different types of SRV's can add different and more variations in gameplay. (mining in planets, racing, cargo runs, cooperation between players one mining and the other loading a ship with 2 SRV's and working together...) Adding more types of SRV's is something that I like to see in this expansion (for 2.4), more type of gadgets to do different tasks with them is also something that I want to see.

For explorers it could be amazing to launch probes into a planet (like those in Mass Effect 2 so then you could check if there were resources there), without the need to go there by your own at all (like we send probes to Mars or the Moon), then after a while check your panels for the info received and sell it for millions. Maybe one day you could see settlements there exploiting that planet that you found. That can be done and it will feel good for that person, a sense of actually interacting with the world and affecting it as well.

Traders trading with those minerals, instead of going to a base to click a menu to load your ship..., you can land in a mining site, and see how actual players load your ship with minerals in real time (rise values for those minerals or make new ones for an added value since it will take time but it will be highly profitable). Perhaps they could sell those minerals to you and then you can sell them to others or in stations as we usually do. (I miss those Luxury Traders so much!!! Bring them back!!)
Imagine those big SRV's with 50 or so tonnes of cargo going in and out loading your ship in real time...oh man!! Multiple players cooperating in real time!! I'll play in Open just for that!!!

See Frontier...where you are failing to deliver?
 
Agreed with the OP and Mengy and Burny's posts here. I feel like we keep having this conversation every so often that something in their development process and priorities must change. The introduction of barebones features without expanding the core game is a disservice to the entirety of Elite. The new features either are half realized or reduced in scope. Every single time. When the initial excitement of the feature wears off, you're left with that same game since before Horizons with no real meaningful expansion.
 
No, he said that they are happy with the way exploration works in general. Flying into unexplored star systems and finding stuff with scanners. He didn't say they aren't going to add / overhaul these scanners and that they will not add more stuff to find. In fact they already added new scanners and new stuff to find since he said that.

Lol, ninjad by sleutelbos :D

That is not what he said, and this is exactly why devs tend to not say anything anymore. He said the basic mechanisms are solid, which they are. Dont expect anything to change as to how you go to a system, how you move into a system, how you discover a planet and how you land on said planet. Those 'core mechanics' as he called them will almost certainly remain as they are. That has nothing to do with adding stuff.

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I dont care. If they give it the best AI they can and tough outfitting/flight models/etc, I'm up for it. Because to me, depth comes from the flight model, AI, loadout considerations etc. That is infinitely more important than getting more fake money with MC.

Well it was 18 months ago or so and it was only a vague recollection I had. If anything, it demonstrates yet again the naïve keep quiet about everything approach that Frontier takes is wrong, as people fill in the blanks with their​ (fallible) memory.
 

verminstar

Banned
The only truth here is that you've been doing nothing but salty doomsaying on the forums here for weeks now with no end in sight. When are you just going to go play Mass Effect: Andromeda? Or Eve online? Or is it that you're one of the Star Citizen hopefuls?

Time is definitely always working against them, that much is true. The rest of what you say is purely your own personal opinion, and it's not one I share at all.

I share his opinion but couldnt rep him for it...your opinion is one some of us already do yet still find the time to follow the forum. I dont see that as detriment, unless one is just here to mine salt. I see that as an indication of how much some of us want this game to improve because its currently too boring or we just burned out.

If ye dont like listening to someene, then just mute them...its not rocket science after all and with so few genuinely constructive threads, your comment I simply see as unnecessary drivel ^
 
Here's the thing.

The OP made a well constructed thought out post discussing their concerns about the game.

The discussion has been interesting and for the main constructive in it's criticism, the thread was temp closed then reopened, not because of the OP's. criticism but because some decided to attack other forum members and their opinions.

A well thought out critical post is an extremely valuable resource to the developer in helping to improve the game.

Back biting and name calling etc isn't.

Just goes to show that we don't close critical threads contrary to what some may believe.



Amen. If you don't agree, attack the post, not the poster...

Z...
 
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