It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

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All of this, I'm on board with. This is the kind of constructive thought I'm talking about! Is all this stuff in a suggestion thread somewhere already?

I made a thread about ideas like that not too long ago:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...oration-Development-a-Galaxy-of-Possibilities

I got some good feedback and added/changed some of it, I plan to post it to the suggestion forums soon. Maybe Frontier will even get some ideas or motivation from it...
 
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I don't know how high or low your expectations are.

High.
Very high.
I have a David-Braben-and-Michael-Brookes-Shrine here. Both in line with Mekka. Just to make sure.

*runs*

No, to be honest: FD collected the money based on the DDF. For me there are a couple of key features still missing - that´s the point. And I think we deserver at least a glance on how the nearest future (post 2.4, let´s say for 6-12 months) will look.
 
High.
Very high.
I have a David-Braben-and-Michael-Brookes-Shrine here. Both in line with Mekka. Just to make sure.

*runs*

No, to be honest: FD collected the money based on the DDF. For me there are a couple of key features still missing - that´s the point. And I think we deserver at least a glance on how the nearest future (post 2.4, let´s say for 6-12 months) will look.

What? Where? The DDF was always posited as a place of possibilities and discussion. Not final decision or enshrined design...unless I'm mistaken, I was told early on to not look at the DDF as the future of the game...only potential
 
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Whlst ED is graphically amazing (most of the time) and the audio, albiet overdone, is also fantastic. I have to agree with the op. There are a lot of gameplay opportunities that have been missed. In the long term, only planet landings really add anything to the game itself IMO. Don't worry though, FD will keep going, making mistakes and not asking us what we want until the game is no longer viable because something else released is what ED should have been. One BIG thing that could make a major difference to the game is the networking. Please sort the foundations before buidling the rest of the house !

Roadhouse !
 
Don't worry though, FD will keep going, making mistakes and not asking us what we want...

Eh, frankly, I would expect ED to not bloody need to ask us what we want. Not beyond "make a cool space ship game". I would expect their game design to have a very thorough grasp of what game they would want to play and try to get there, making sensible decisions based on the vision and resource constraints under which they have to develop that game. If they put too much importance on community choice, what we get is hour clocks for inventory management. A game design low blow that is really looking for its equal.

Unfortunately however, the game they want to play and can develop under whatever constraints they have, has three different mechanics for stocking limpets, SRVs and fighters, apparently was fine gimping coop PvE payouts for two years in their old feature Wings, only to fix it in 2.3 and go on to gimp them in their new feature Multicrew and also consists of full workdays worth of material grind for an RNGineer roll in 2.1 vanilla. Sorry, but with those kind of decisions, listening to what an undefined mass of players wants isn't going to save you. Those things should be obvious when drafting and playtesting the respective mechanics internally, long before beta. Only, when you even consider building a mechanic that requires a days worth of material grind for an engineer roll and don't have the time and resources to test that very mechanic under RL conditions to see that your expensive dev employee just grinded for a day to get a wet fart from the game in return and then reevaluate this before releasing vanilla 2.1, you're in trouble.

No amount of asking people for what they want is going to help you there, if you couldn't see it by yourself.
 
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High.
Very high.
I have a David-Braben-and-Michael-Brookes-Shrine here. Both in line with Mekka. Just to make sure.

*runs*

No, to be honest: FD collected the money based on the DDF. For me there are a couple of key features still missing - that´s the point. And I think we deserver at least a glance on how the nearest future (post 2.4, let´s say for 6-12 months) will look.

What? Where? The DDF was always posited as a place of possibilities and discussion. Not final decision or enshrined design...unless I'm mistaken, I was told early on to not look at the DDF as the future of the game...only potential

Pretty sure most people didn't even knew about the DDF before paying for the game....
 
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You most likely never heard of it but just as an example:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/398170/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/71000/

These games are developed by a single man. Single, all alone! Yes, theirs graphics looks rude and primitive, but they have all gameplay possibilities which ED is only about to develop in the future (maybe), together with coop multiplayer and offline play. Only thing it's lacking it's Elite's breathtakingly beautiful graphics. Elite isn't such an unique spacegame which is "much better than until recently people could have hoped for". There is a lots of space games with great deep gameplay such as Evochron or X series, but they always lacking something. X series lacking a huge world and multiplayer. Evochron lacks beautiful graphics and sound. We're waiting from Elite to become the game which overcomes such limitations and have deep gameplay, beautiful graphics and multiplayer all at once. Currently after 4 years of development it have only beautiful graphics, astonishing sound, huge empty galaxy and partial multiplayer capabilities. The guy who's developing Evochron for same time implemented a whole new game - Evochron Legacy, all alone.

More people should be paying attention to that game. I can't even imagine if Vice (the dev) had the paid staff and budget that FD has. The guy is unbelievably talented. If FD were smart they'd throw money at that guy to come fix the gameplay of ED.
Put the two games together and you'd have space gaming bliss!
 
It would be nice if Frontier would take some time to integrate all of the features, that have been added, with each other. To make the game more cohesive. As of now, there are a bunch of features that are mostly disconnected.

Engineers has little to do with powerplay, which has little to do with regular missions, which has little to do with CQC, which has little to do with ship launched fighters, which has little to do with planetary landing.

There could be a lot of gameplay where these features meet, and it would flesh out the game by just being a more cohesive whole, where you could really choose a path.

I don't want any brand new features if it means that they work on improving and connecting what's already there.
 
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I played on Xbox for over a year...and certainly, popping in to the Xbox section of the forum reads a lot differently from here. Improved graphics, transitions, planetary textures....and a working galmap and system map. Apart from a major issue where Multipew locks the game forcing a total deletion of all save files and key bindings to make it work again... they're quite effusive over how good it is.

Almost tempted to fire up the Xbox again [squeeeee]

Xbox is just as bad trust can't even play MC here missions not 1 bit worth doing feels very stale at the moment
 
You know what i'd pay for even though it would probably cause a huge uproar.

I would pay for FD to stop releasing new content for 1 year/season and instead work on the current mechanics and get them working to a passable degree.

Make the BGS actually mean something and tie into the rest of the game, the economics, the trading, the combat, crime and piracy, missions, bounties. Work on multiplayer, the net code, wings. Exploration has remained largely untouched since launch - give it some love, some proper tools, a reason to land on planets. There is a tonne of stuff that needs attention way too much to list in fact but for me it all comes back to the BGS and how all these activities tie in together.

They'd probably have to tear down the current BGS and start again but I think it would be worth it in the long term.

I think everyone on these forums regardless of standpoint or opinion are here because we like or love the game, it's premise and it's potential (I played the original in '84 so I've loved this series for long time).

Honestly, I would pay a full DLC season price to get some of the existing stuff fixed and improved (I'm probably in the minority here) but in it's current state I can only see myself dropping in from time to time just to explore, I say explore but a one button exploration mechanic with a point at the nearest space ball as the 'detailed' version is hardly what I'd call exploration.

+1

Knowing that Frontier were working on this stuff at the expense of new headline features would be enough to keep my interest and support. Just tell me where to spend money to support this endeavour.

It's a crazy idea but one that excites me
 
It would be nice if Frontier would take some time to integrate all of the features, that have been added, with each other. To make the game more cohesive. As of now, there are a bunch of features that are mostly disconnected.

Engineers has little to do with powerplay, which has little to do with regular missions, which has little to do with CQC, which has little to do with ship launched fighters, which has little to do with planetary landing.

There could be a lot of gameplay where these features meet, and it would flesh out the game by just being a more cohesive whole, where you could really choose a path.

I don't want any brand new features if it means that they work on improving and connecting what's already there.

+ rep. They just piling up meat without getting bones in place first. Would definately pay for that.
 
Jeez.

Some people complain about the bones having no meat!

Which is it?

Very much agree.

In the end, its a live product development, it's going to both. If it was a standard product development, I imagine less bells and whistles as it progressed, but that's because they need to keep it interesting as a product as they build up the infrastructure, so it will be a bit boney and a bit meaty by the nature of the beast.
 
+1

Knowing that Frontier were working on this stuff at the expense of new headline features would be enough to keep my interest and support. Just tell me where to spend money to support this endeavour.

It's a crazy idea but one that excites me

In an ideal, non-money driven world this would get my vote too. Alas I suspect they feel they have to keep adding new headline features in order to attract new players and new revenue (and they may be right). And yes, like you I would gladly pay full price for an entire season of bug fixes and improvements to existing features but I suspect we are the vocal minority.
 
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Hey all,

I want to start this off with saying that I like the game and find it playable enough to have fun and I definitely got my money worth out of it. But in the last year, or more like since the horizons release, I feel like I'm in a positon where I have to write this here even tough my career goal is in the same area. I don't want to be offensive or anything, but this completely irks me and I simply can't understand what I'm going to say here, so maybe I will get some enlightment here.

What is actually happening in your development process, Frontier? I simply can't follow what takes so much time with what you actually create. But lets go through it!

Easier things first: Galnet is empty. I recently had to visualize some thesis about how to engage your community to co-create content with you. It seems like you completely missed every potential for that, seeing as how most of Galnet right now are summarizations of different stuff. You care about lore? Well, there's not much anymore. This was different once. And, to top it off, you have to go through all that summarization which won't interest you in the slightest if you are keen on lore. Why is the state so barren? Where is a simple writer to write out snippets of a pre-determined story? Where are incentives for user-creations? It feels like such a missed opportunity.

2) Powerplay + Engineering: There's enough criticism out there. From the endless grindfest² of Powerplay to the PvP-Balance gap of Engineered/Unengineered and need to do grindfest material gathering. The latter was patched to be made easier, but its still concerning on how the first iteration even came about. But, as said, not going into depth here. Powerplay was a missed opportunity and Engineering feels like forcing horizon(planet)-content.

3) Holo-Me. Finally! We have our character creator! It's well done and the transitions are nice, cudos to the programmers/artists/sound-designers. But now, after waiting half a year... microtransactions! Not a single available tattoo? Completely basic suits? I don't care you want to earn money with microtransactions, but to bring out such a anticipated feature with, in the end, half baked customization, feels awkward. It's a nice character creator, but it feels like theres not much, especially due to face limitation. I know, we don't see the character anyways, but if we already have a face-concentration, why are there so few options available? Like mentioned, no tatoos, no... future piercings, whatever the heck you can want. Again, it feels somewhat barebones and too limited. Why do I have to pay for some black ink in my face? Why are there just simple color variations of the most basic outfit? You really couldn't offer at least some *simple* alternatives? It feels... well, like a missed opportunity?

4) Multi-Crew. Yay, a friend can fly around with me! And... shoot some stuff with cannons. I really don't know what I expected. It's somewhat fun, but in the end... its... well... a missed opportunity for something more.

5) Planets. The current iterations we have. The great driving around on planets with some bases. So you obviously have a procedural generation for the planets. Who basically all look the same as they are moons. And don't feel different... as they are moons. It's fine. I accept that. But again, everything feels absolutely the same. There's no difference from Moon A to B in terms of gameplay except some materials you actually scope (and the ruins-events). Missions on moons feel barebones too. Why aren't, at least in the bubble near populated systems, some generated human bases with turrets and protective fliers? Or anything at all. To not make it barebones. Because again, it feels... like a missed opportunity.

6) Ship Customization. Well, I literally can't do anything without buying anything out of the store with additional money. Theres not even anything ingame to obtain to customize my ship. What is this? Why, just why, aren't there some goals? Your playerbase is big. There aren't only grinders who try this game out. You have to hook people to want some progression other than money(and thus ships). Its like the most basic concept one can think of. What happened here? Its, again, a missed opportunity and makes it feel even more cash-shoppy.

7) Background-Simulation. What is actually happening here? In the terms of "what does it actually do" ?. What is your code doing? We obviously don't have something persistent thats interacting with the players at all. We have some number tweeking with wares and minor faction influences and their spreading. Different people will have their own reasons to join powerplay and help minor factions, mainly due to roleplay reasons. That's cool, at least. But the Background-Simulation really feels to fall flat and to serve no real purpose concerning wares and trade.
But Minor Factions! I can have my own? AWESOME. Except for people who have to wait over 3 months to have it inserted. I simply can NOT comprehend how the insertion can last this long. I'm still waiting and I have no problems doing so, but others clearly want them integrated. So, you obviously have lists every time of, lets say, 30 new minor factions of players. You can't tell me that you can't take one guy after checking availability to simply insert them into the game for the next update. There has to be some interface in your code for this. There must be. I can't believe that you are writing code snippets for every insertion. Where is the automated system after accepting and checking? (Or even accepting and checking too).

8) 3rd-party Tools. Half of the time when trading I have to check on another website OUTSIDE the game where I can get something. Why? Its some g time in the future where everything is connected in some way(see Galnet) - But there is no ingame function to actually check that stuff? This seems like the first thing stations would want to publish to sell goods and get more traffic. Not to mention resource-route determination. Why do I have to switch OUT of the game to get stuff done efficiently? You clearly want me to loose every immersion possible, right? Failed opportunity.

9) I had something here, but I don't remember because the forum deleted half of my post after submitting and I'm loosing my steam. Passengers, Pirate Interdactions, you name it. But it was something different. Anyways, I wanted to get at the following:

Something is clearly wrong. And I mean clearly! I don't know what part in your team screws up though. Something has to. All the time since horizons release and it basically still feels like the absolute same game for me. Some small additions, but nothing big. Everything underwhelming, awkward or too obstruse to not be worth the effort. Why? Is management forcing bad decisions about the team? Are your game designers strictly bad because the different game modules all seem so barebones? Are they maybe limited by upper management and thus can't create creatively?
Obviously you are doing bug fixing. And adding content. But its so slow! Its so barebones! It's so underwhelming! I feel disappointed after every patch. This is a feeling your customer should not have. And I simply don't know what you are doing that its ending up like this. Some problem area I think has to be identified. Hell, at the current rate I even suspect that most developers are at Planet Safari and Planet Coasters and this game is being done on the side for some money upkeep and future possibilities. What the hell has gone wrong that I am thinking of this possibility?

As I said, I didn't want to come off as offensive. But I also want to know what others feel about this issue.
I will be going to bed so I won't comment immediately, but thanks for reading!
Fly safe! o7

most of the things are true.

Good luck, I find that voicing an opinion against this game lack of polish only triggers white knights to attack you. The pigeons will come and mess with your words and try to make you the bad guy!

This ^^. +rep


Moving forward, main problem I see is that the core game (mechanics, design, architecture, network,....) is broken. Adding new features will make it shine on the surface but generating more holes inside.

And I don't speak about FD habit to put live known old and new bugs. That is not professional. AAA team or not. Especially if they have been identified before.

Season 3.0 -> back to basics (take care of core game).
 
most of the things are true.



This ^^. +rep


Moving forward, main problem I see is that the core game (mechanics, design, architecture, network,....) is broken. Adding new features will make it shine on the surface but generating more holes inside.

And I don't speak about FD habit to put live known old and new bugs. That is not professional. AAA team or not. Especially if they have been identified before.

Season 3.0 -> back to basics (take care of core game).

Horizons 2.4 "The Fixers"
 
Well,
I like the game, not for it current state, but for its opportunities. I played since the first hour of Elite Dangerous and I think I speak for alot of us (the Community) when I say that playing the game was for a long time a roller coaster ride of feelings where you were first fascinated from flying in space, then new ships and content wow! ...and finaly horizon and multi-crew. And it was always the same: You heard the update comming, in your mind 1000 ideas and fantasies exploded how the new features could improve the game and after testing it you saw that it was halfway-done. And why? (I deeply hope!!!) Because Braben works logicaly: He gives us snippets of content to see what the community is thinking of it. So that in the end it can be polished up to a finaly good game that's actually fun to play for the majority.

But now comes the sad (illogical) part: THERE IS NO POLISHING! WHY!?!
We have more than enough content now to have a amazing gameplay if it all would work properly.
So, apart from new content WE (the Community) should kindly ask for polishing the game and it's implemented features.
And sadly I cannot read that much posts about this topic. But we have this lively one here and hopefuly FD hears our kind request.
I kindly ask for Minimum Efford in developing and Maximum Output in amazing gameplay
Connecting everything is the BIG key word here.

Some thoughts:

1. Arena:
Why is it a seperate game? Why not implement it in the original game and make it the "football of the galaxy"?
Some simple changes like: periodical tournaments with in-game prizes (credits, paintshops, bubblehead trophys, etc.), Co-op against the AI, GalNet support, Connection with ingame factions (maybe powerplay), making it a big deal everyone in the bubble is talking about with actual titles and champions and not the dead playground like it is currently.

2. Multi-Crew and Squads:
Mulit-Crew is definetly one of the most wished implemented features ingame after Squads, but at it current state a missed oppurtunity. It connects our community and for the first time since the start of the game Elite doesn't feel like a online singleplayer.
Two major thoughts here:
First, both options for multiplayer gameplay should be open for every gameplay style, not just combat.
Second, playing together should be at least as profitable (exept exploration) as playing alone. Playing multi-crew is fun, but if I want to grow ingame I'm forced to play alone and grind.

3. Balancing Profit:
This is third in my thoughts but it should be first on FD's TO-DO-List!!!
Current state is: Trading and Courier Missions do the Job, nothing else. And yeah you 're right, this are the most boring things you can do in Elite Dangerous (no offense to our lovely Truckers for fun, you're great people, I like you).
There are Fighters, Explorers, Miners, Pirates, etc. and they love what they do, even if it isn't that profitable, but if trading wasn't that profitable, there wouldn't be any traders (exept our Truckers).
Because most traiders are grinders and grinders seek the most income, credits is the goal and the way is just optional.
But alot of players suffer from this. Potential Explorers, Bounty-Hunters, Pirates, Miner, Passenger Pilots, etc. are forced to trade to get to their beloved goal (ship, equipment) to finaly do what they actually wanted to do. It is weeks of suffering till finaly there is the possiblitiy of fun gameplay.

So the key thought here is:
"If you are professional effective in any activity you should be rewarded equal with any professional in other activities" so that there is not only one way, but like FD has promised multiple ways of achieving your goal. And most important: NO forced gameplay stlye!

4. Overhaul Navy Ranking:
Hey, you are an Admiral of the Federal Fleet? Wow nice! But what is the Federal Fleet? I haven't seen any fleet ingame... Because there is none!
Current both the Federal and the Imperial Fleet are nothing more like space shipyards that offer you some nice ships if you play the coffee making trainee for
some minor factions that are friendly with the superpower. And that's it.
Why no actual federal and imperial Fleet faction that offers you some interesting and funny missions for lvling up your ranking?
Why no actual fleet outposts? Where is the army? You cannot tell me that in the future there is just a feudal system with some "lords"(factions) and their personal mercenary fleets...
There could be spying, infiltrating, sabotage missions, maybe some little confrontations in the cold war between the Empire and the Federation. But there is nothing.

5. Powerplay:
Just like in the previous point there could be a better ranking system for the powerplay factions. And more happening between the factions. Maybe some Diplomacy?
So that powerplay doesn't affect combat only but trading with other factions for example (trade, piracy, mining, passenger missions improvement)? What about Treaties?
And more power to the players.

6. Missions:
This is the point where to most things go wrong: Missions. Whoever is responsible for missions in the Dev Team of FD should be woken up and finally do something.
Elite Dangerous is compared to other games hardly outraced in mission variety, fun, and ambiente. I recommend kindly to look at all other MMORPG's and learn from them.
This should not sound offensive, but I'm a bit upset talking about missions because it really grind my gears. FD you CAN do BETTER!
First things first: Multiplayer missions! This content is wished from the community since the start of the game. Maybe it is now time to act.
And a personal wish: cancel generating missions where I have to fly 15+ min for a courier mission because the spaceport I have to go is 10,000,000,000 ls away from it's star .__.


This are just some changes with minimal efford and maximum gameplay change. I know there are much more improvements to do. But it is a beginning and I really hope some things
change in near future. Otherwise, I don't see a good future for Elite Dangerous. And I deeply hope that Elite will not fail the same as Tom Clancy's The Division e.g. ...
Braben, you have a damn good Game here, pls don't crash it!

kindly regards,

Nasirrh
 
Now, is this a result of bad design choices, or is it intentional on Frontier’s end? That’s a question that we the players can’t truly answer, only Frontier can.

I personally wish that Frontier would change course and improve the game’s foundations before building new houses upon half finished foundations….

Personally I always try to think the best and assume FD are beavering away at the big changes the game needs to its gameplay mechanics for season 3 (assuming there is one). I must admit that i get a little frustrated at how news regarding development is very limited so it's difficult to understand the game's long term direction. At this point we don't know what 2.4 will bring and we don't know whether season 3 is confirmed. The updates don't seem to be dovetailing into each other in a clear direction so it's difficult to guess what's coming next. It's probably thargoids though isn't it?

I'd personally like to see the dev focus on core gameplay. Even the most enthusiastic of ED players would surely agree that exploration and mining need a creative injection of new gameplay ideas. The other professions need work too. I see a lot of posts talking about space legs. For me that's a season 4 thing - after the issues with the core gameplay have been developed through season 3 (or equivalent).

I do remain optimistic that FD will get it right. if I had one wish it would be that FD talk about their long term plans more.
 
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Don't worry though, FD will keep going, making mistakes and not asking us what we want until the game is no longer viable because something else released is what ED should have been.

To be fair though, Frontier has been better at this lately. With the neutron jump bug in the 2.2 beta Frontier listened to our argument and evidence to keep it as a feature and they implemented it. They listened to the pleas to make Colonia an actual second bubble, that was never planned by Frontier. They listened to the negative feedback on the engineer grind and made it much less punishing. They’ve listened to feedback on the engineer weapon imbalances and actually had an entire mid-point beta phase devoted to it. They finally listened to all of our feedback on the DBX design and actually fixed the ship so that it’s useful. They’ve admitted that the beige plague of the stellar forge was not intentional and they plan to fix and improve it in the near future (hopefully very near!!).

Frontier makes mistakes, but they do sometimes admit it and fix things too. That is what’s giving me a shred of hope that Frontier realizes their mistake with the development priorities and changes their schedule to start addressing core game mechanics after 2.4 instead of prioritizing bolt-on marketable features. I have to believe that they realize just how large an issue it is after two and a half years, I have to trust that they aren’t that disconnected from the very game they are producing.

I hope so at least.
 
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