Piracy vs. Murder ?

Rennard

R
To simplify my question, lets assume the following:

Piracy = threatening someone for their cargo, including firing and causing some damage

Murder = Taking all of their cargo then killing them anyway

What is the difference, in terms of penalties to the aggressor when committing "piracy" or "murder"??

Basically I want to know if the penalty outweighs the desire to "finish the job".
 

SeraphymC

S
Well, I'm sure this has been discused to death...

I think piracy is an essential part of this game, and it needs to be possible to be a pirate as a player. This is obviously a balancing act of epic proportions.

I think the key will be mechanics for intercepting and disabling ships, without killing them, and mechanics in place to make killing far more risky than simply robbing people.

Ships should be easier to disable and harder to kill, and penalties for killing should be stiff. Perhaps someone guilty of murder is cut off from the black market in that system and surrounding systems? The black market doesn't want to heat that comes from trafficking goods obtained in a murder...

This would make it much more of a pain to kill the traders, but sometimes you have to send a message to stubborn and willful traders so the rest fall in line easier?
 

Commander Edison

Commander Edison
SeraphymC said:
Well, I'm sure this has been discused to death...
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Not half.

But if you have a look at the dda links that space_killer has so kindly provided, you can see the current proposals. I reckon it looks pretty sound, but you're bang on when you say epic balancing is required.

On the other hand, the sheer scale of the play area we'll be in will mitigate even the most commited pirate. You can't blockade the galaxy. So pirates will have occasional passing trade, and no single trader should see too much piracy.
 

SeraphymC

S
Commander Edison said:
Not half.

But if you have a look at the dda links that space_killer has so kindly provided, you can see the current proposals. I reckon it looks pretty sound, but you're bang on when you say epic balancing is required.

On the other hand, the sheer scale of the play area we'll be in will mitigate even the most commited pirate. You can't blockade the galaxy. So pirates will have occasional passing trade, and no single trader should see too much piracy.
Click to expand...

I did read through the links provided, the crime is fairly fleshed out, but piracy was pretty basic.

I think the other thing that is missing is a meeting place. A stopping point that represents a risk for the trader and an opportunity for the pirate.

They have talked about fuel, but have they decided if it's something you can gather naturally? Like skimming hydrogen off a gas giant? Because that would be the perfect place to stage an ambush, at the local refueling spot in a system.
 

Quantum Fluke

Q
Honestly, besides the countless piracy/pvp threads I read past days; just reading DDF would cut all forum posts by half. Most of the piracy will happen between PC>NPC and vica versa anyway.
 

Quantum Fluke

Q
SeraphymC said:
I did read through the links provided, the crime is fairly fleshed out, but piracy was pretty basic.

I think the other thing that is missing is a meeting place. A stopping point that represents a risk for the trader and an opportunity for the pirate.

They have talked about fuel, but have they decided if it's something you can gather naturally? Like skimming hydrogen off a gas giant? Because that would be the perfect place to stage an ambush, at the local refueling spot in a system.
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This was also in DDF, you will be able to scoop fuel from stars and gas giants.
"Meeting place" I think you mean interdictions in super cruise? In release, I imagine that will be the place the piracy will happen most of the time.
 

SeraphymC

S
Quantum Fluke said:
This was also in DDF, you will be able to scoop fuel from stars and gas giants.
"Meeting place" I think you mean interdictions in super cruise? In release, I imagine that will be the place the piracy will happen most of the time.
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Well, interdictions are like intentional meetings. Gas giants being used as a refueling depot means that you are likely to have encounters that may or may not be intentional...

In other words, if you get interdicted, you know someone's gunning for you. If you arrive at the local gas giant to top off, and some cobra is sitting there, you aren't immediately sure if they are a threat or not. They are probably eyeing you pretty closely as well.

That is the kind of tense situation I'm looking for.
 

n0ahg

N
Purpertraitor wears tracksuit * (when not exercising) == murder... easy

* Edit, or buy anything from Mike Ashley
 
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Tibrogargan

Tibrogargan
Rennard said:
To simplify my question, lets assume the following:

Piracy = threatening someone for their cargo, including firing and causing some damage

Murder = Taking all of their cargo then killing them anyway

What is the difference, in terms of penalties to the aggressor when committing "piracy" or "murder"??

Basically I want to know if the penalty outweighs the desire to "finish the job".
Click to expand...

Piracy = Bounty for piracy (this is the actual demand. not in game yet) + Bounty for firing on someone who isn't wanted + Bounty for stolen goods (if you get scanned with them). Positive rep gain (not in game yet) with pirate factions. Negative rep with any faction with jurisdiction (may be none, i.e. Anarchy)

Murder = Bounty for piracy+ Bounty for firing on someone who isn't wanted + Bounty for killing someone who isn't wanted (much higher than 'firing' bounty) + Bounty for stolen goods (if you get scanned with them). Negative rep gain with pirate factions and any faction with jurisdiction.

Note: You may not get bounties from local authorities in Anarchy systems (duh), but you may still get them from the Federation - perhaps for murder
 
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n0ahg

N
SeraphymC said:
Except there's no reason for a trader full of cargo to stop at one... Thats why the refueling points are better, there's a reason for everyone to go there.
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Bingo, but kill counters want easy kills to boost their ego

I'm now fully believe there should be no way to identify a PC from a NPC to stop willy waving kill counts. SWG was so much better before examining a person displayed the skills they had mastered. It was funny seeing PvP knobs thinking dancers were easy points but some were also TKA. You also had to actually talk to someone in game to gauge them... we all know what happened when they dumbed down that great game though :-(
 
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Cmdr Andy B

Cmdr Andy B
Hopefully by the time the finished game goes live the pirates will have learnt the valuable lessons of history:

to be successful as a pirate you need someone to steal from, kill all the traders and you make the area your hunting in too hot to visit diminishing both the number of traders and your profits from them.

this is without even touching on the flip side of the coin that will bring an increase in bounty hunters and police to the area hunting you.

Take the cargo,
run away,
rob the trader,
again some day ;)
 

Jexter

Jexter
I'd say the definiiton of murder in this case is still rather far from griefing (which I think is what the OP really means).

I you compare the concept of piracy in ED to what goes on all the time in seas all over the world even today (perhaps more today than ever before) piracy is attacking another ship and stealing valuables, and that may or may not mean brutally gunning down everything living on that ship without asking any questions or batting an eye. Nicer chaps you wont find I tell ya (yarrr etc).

Anyway my point is that from a pure gameplay or roleplay perspective in ED, blowing someone up to get their cargo without issuing warnings is rather expected and nowhere near what constitutes the kind of griefing we read about so often on these forums.

edit
Having re-read the original post I can see that this is not at all what the OP meant. Ah well never mind :)
 
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SeraphymC

S
n0ahg said:
I'm now fully believe there should be no way to identify a PC from a NPC to stop willy waving kill counts. SWG was so much better before examining a person displayed the skills they had mastered. It was funny seeing PvP knobs thinking dancers were easy points but some were also TKA. You also had to actually talk to someone in game to gauge them... we all know what happened when they dumbed down that great game though :-(
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I completely agree!
 

Tibrogargan

Tibrogargan
Jexter said:
Anyway my point is that from a pure gameplay or roleplay perspective in ED, blowing someone up to get their cargo without issuing warnings is rather expected and nowhere near what constitutes the kind of griefing we read about so often on these forums.
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This is not the case, it's going to be discouraged to some degree and will hopefully be uncommon. Killing the goose that lays the golden egg and all that.
 

Rickenbacker

Rickenbacker
Jexter said:
Anyway my point is that from a pure gameplay or roleplay perspective in ED, blowing someone up to get their cargo without issuing warnings is rather expected and nowhere near what constitutes the kind of griefing we read about so often on these forums.
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True, and there will be people who do this (you can be a murderer AND a pirate, they're not mutually exclusive). But the smart pirates, the ones we'll actually enjoy interacting with (as much as you can enjoy being robbed) will be the ones who get their loot without killing their victims. After all, if you destroy someone's Lakon, they'll come back in a Sidewinder, and you'll get considerably less loot next time you kill them. Make them drop half their cargo, and you'll still be able to get a half Lakon-load out of them next time you catch them.
 

Gwydion

G
Jexter said:
Anyway my point is that from a pure gameplay or roleplay perspective in ED, blowing someone up to get their cargo without issuing warnings is rather expected and nowhere near what constitutes the kind of griefing we read about so often on these forums.
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Killing your mark will also lead to a drop in your reputation with the pirate "guild". This is presumably because murder brings too much official attention to their activities.
 

Rennard

R
I very deliberately didn't mention griefing as that is a separate topic of much debate.

Several of you have picked up on the key point I was getting at. I for one would love there to be compelling reasons for pirates to leave their prey alive.

I agree that the path of murderer is a valid one and if you want to be a psychotic then fill ya' boots but expect the consequences.

The idea that pirates lose favour with their guild by killing is a good idea that I can see lots of merit in.

Personally I see pirate and murderer as mutually exclusive, with one hampering the other in terms of faction standing. There could well be an assassins guild that offers faction standing for targeted murder but just random killing should ideally offer little reward and ultimately become difficult to maintain due to mounting bounties.
 
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