It feels like someone is doing their job wrong

[Monk]

Spoiler

Likewise neither can your claim of "100 people tops" repeating the same concerns stand as an unvalidated statement. I could just as well ask if you have figures to back that claim up? For my part I can only explain to you how Mengy's statement rings true for me and why. Diversify the group of people you interact with who play ED and you'll see the truth of Mengy's claim, in my opinion.

I talk to people on this forum, on INARA in general, with friends and members of the player group I'm in, at get togethers in real life, in the Discord chat channels of various long standing and dedicated player groups. I read the forums on Reddit, I see the comments random people post on social media and during livestreams, I read the Steam reviews and the Steam forums for ED, I even glance at Star Citizen's forums and notice ED being discussed.

In amongst all the millions of different ideas and opinions about Elite Dangerous I find there is a general consensus that the majority of people who have been playing ED for a while are concerned with the often times baffling development directions that ED has taken since 2.1 - in terms of the headline features always being somewhat bare bones and the updates never really building upon the core gameplay and the plethora of by now 2 year old 'placeholders'.

I'm not about to dig up every single Internet source I've ever encountered because quite frankly I don't need to. The truth is out there, hang around long enough and you'll see the same concerns being voiced by new players. This thread is proof enough of that. I'm genuinley surprised it got so much agreement to be honest because every time these very same issues of development direction have been brought up over the years they've usually been drowned out either by petty bickering or a concerted effort by some to stamp out or derail criticism of any form.

This time it seems to have stuck. I don't quite know why. Some of the criticisms the OP presented have been around for a long time and they have stayed relevant all throughout Horizons in my opinion (I only came into actively participating in/playing ED with Horizons). Perhaps it's because we only have 2.4 left to go and then that's it for Season 2; the proof is in the pudding as they say and now that we finally have almost all of the pudding there's less wiggle room for arguments such as "maybe the next update will focus on fleshing out the core placeholders". Whatever the case it's an interesting thread to follow

.

While I tacitly agree that this is the sentiment out there. I'd caution you on relying on Internet sources to determine what a majority think. You can find justification for just about any opinion on the Internet. The only measure we could rely on is activity and sales.

Anecdotally, I know several people who would never share their opinion on a video game on the Internet. Do they have the same concerns? Some do, some don't. For this reason, I challenge people to ensure they describe what is wrong instead of relying on what some folks are feeling.

 

[AstroCreep]

I've not read the entire thread only the OP, I posted something similar on Facebook this morning (to a private group not to the general public!) that these updates are stale, boring, flat. This 2.3 update feels like not much has been added, Multi-Crew is ok, Holo-Me is alright, new Cameras are OK. But since Horizons there hasn't been a patch that has gripped me enough to warrant an extended run in the game, they've all been "meh", there's no substance to it all.

I'm not expecting Horizons style patches every time, but that did come out a long time ago and since then nothing major has been added. Exploration totally ignored, new content barely noticeable, new drive to the game is non-existent, the whole "Alien" encounters are severely lacking in direction.

I feel as though this game needs a kick up the backside quite frankly, grab the bull by the horns and release some content with meaning, go back to pushing the boundaries like in the beginning, make people re-believe this game has a great future - because now I'm feeling so flat about it all and as each update comes & goes I'm seriously wondering whether FD have any sort of direction they're going in. It's almost as if they're plodding a long and doing things at random with no forethought as to how to continually improve the game, it's gone stale, time to step up a gear.

 

[Blackcompany]

You get banned for calling out the devs even if you don't insult them and have a ''mild'' opinion of them, I know it's crazy, so much for freedom of speech and censorship right?

Then people wonder why we have threads like this.

I personality don't give a crap, I already have 5 pages long of warnings. I strongly believe the lead designer of the game is doing a bad job (in my opinion, take a chill pill). I believe the toxic relationship between the near absolute power of a producer and the creative staff dawdle and procrastinate and actually force them to have a boring linear vision of the game which might be the reason why 2.1 and 2.3 felt incredibly rushed and devoid of content and are in all respect, an attrocious pile of garbage filled with half baked features (like the engineers and multi-crew).... Producers are equal parts the best and worst thing to happen to video games, because they are essentially the viceroys of the publisher and do not represent the full perspective of the creative team.

I wish the game was good, but in reality it's simply not and with the current development direction it will never be anything more than wasted potential.

It's no wonder Elite is known as wide as an ocean, but as deep as a puddle. You don't stick with this kind of reputation because your game is good.

It's quite the opposite.

Harsh as this sounds it's also spot on true. Outside of these forums, Elite, when it's mentioned at all in the gaming press, is loaded with inch deep/mile wide comments.

Add to that, the disaster of 2.3 and a new, half baked gimmick that the lead dev outright said won't be fleshed out unless we first make due with this half finished, one dimensional version of it.

The time has come for a leadership change.

 

[markuslig]

Just agree on the questions and make a poll about it then [blah]

 

[Quester91]

Just agree on the questions and make a poll about it then [blah]

Polls are not allowed on this forum anymore [cry]

 

[markuslig]

Oh! thats so sad, ill go make a comfort sandwich then.

 

[danteuk]

Polls are not allowed on this forum anymore [cry]

For me that was one of the final clear signs that FDev don't really want to listen - a poll with lots of votes for something is hard to ignore, but FDev have managed in the past. In the end I guess they just decided it was easier on them to simply disable polls rather than explain why poll result doesn't matter to them.

Maybe an external Poll to think about.
https:///rfra5ew

 

[markuslig]

For me that was one of the final clear signs that FDev don't really want to listen - a poll with lots of votes for something is hard to ignore, but FDev have managed in the past. In the end I guess they just decided it was easier on them to simply disable polls rather than explain why poll result doesn't matter to them.

Maybe an external Poll to think about.
https:///rfra5ew

cant load it :/

 

[Monk]

For me that was one of the final clear signs that FDev don't really want to listen - a poll with lots of votes for something is hard to ignore, but FDev have managed in the past. In the end I guess they just decided it was easier on them to simply disable polls rather than explain why poll result doesn't matter to them.

Maybe an external Poll to think about.
https:///rfra5ew

Those polls are auto-moderated out. Nice try.

These forum polls were always too biased in their wording and could never be used as a objective way to determine the opinion of even the very limited population of players on the forum...certainly, they failed at getting the opinion of the wider community including those that don't participate in online discussions.

 

[danteuk]

Those polls are auto-moderated out. Nice try.

These forum polls were always too biased in their wording and could never be used as a objective way to determine the opinion of even the very limited population of players on the forum...certainly, they failed at getting the opinion of the wider community including those that don't participate in online discussions.

Wow, they really do hate polls!

If people don't participate in online discussions then they deserve what they get - the forums are here for a reason and if you don't contribute to the discussion you can't be upset by the end results.

 

[Alec Turner]

Wow, they really do hate polls!

Quick test, please ignore ...

www.polldancing.com

Edit: huh, OK - more sophisticated than I thought.

 

[Martian Successor]

Harsh as this sounds it's also spot on true. Outside of these forums, Elite, when it's mentioned at all in the gaming press, is loaded with inch deep/mile wide comments.

Add to that, the disaster of 2.3 and a new, half baked gimmick that the lead dev outright said won't be fleshed out unless we first make due with this half finished, one dimensional version of it.

The time has come for a leadership change.

That's a bit extreme. 2.3 isn't a disaster, it's been like any other Horizons update in my opinion: lots of bugs (unfortunately) but also lots of nice little improvements to the game hidden away underneath an unfortunately lackluster implementation of the headline feature. Except that at least one of 2.3's headline features was a surprisingly fleshed out Commander Creator - it's the most fleshed out feature we've ever gotten in Horizons. That's worthy of praise at least. I certainly like 2.3 a lot more than what 2.1 and 2.2 gave us.

I too dislike FD's attitude towards multi-crew however (same for CQC it seems), i.e. perfectly willing to let it rot if the gutted bare bones version doesn't garner enough interest. Now that's a terrible design philosophy for a dev team to follow in my opinion. But no need for leadership change per say just a change in direction. Instead of always implementing the minimum viable product focus on fleshing out and connecting together all of the released content so far and then start releasing completed features, or at least more fleshed out ones that are ready to be integrated more fully directly in the following update.

Those polls are auto-moderated out. Nice try.

These forum polls were always too biased in their wording and could never be used as a objective way to determine the opinion of even the very limited population of players on the forum...certainly, they failed at getting the opinion of the wider community including those that don't participate in online discussions.

The one FD did for ship transfer times seemed to work, I can't remember if the poll was hosted on this forum though.

 

[XW_Ziggy]

OP, have a +rep.

The glacial pace of development, the speed of response to game-breaking bugs, and the complete stonewalling of valid criticisms on these forums is frustrating.

 

[CMDRHarryTheHatchet]

Some small thoughts regarding the OP, as a dev myself. Little bit of background: I'm a freelance dev/creative director who specializes in helping nightmare projects turn around. My living is wading into hellish game development projects.

If there is something that feels lacking in the development of Elite, it's because it's spread thin between the actual development road map and the many, many, many, many things us as a community nag for. It's always an incredibly difficult balance to make. Frontier is amazing at fostering a community for their game. It's truly impressive. Film contests, streams, massive Q&As, active forums. A whole 24 hour Live stream hosted by good people, with content all the way through.

But it's also a development nightmare for the team, no doubt. It's like a boardroom of six thousand people who all want the game to be something. But not too something or it wouldn't be Elite anymore. But it also has to be enjoyable to the players of the original Elite. But it also has to keep up with and compliment modern games. But I want it to be easier to play. But I want to feel like it's an immersive, breathing world. But I want to be able join a ship at any time any where. But how does a hologram use ship controls? But wait, I wanted it to be something. It's not something yet. I don't care what something that guy wants, it's the something I want. So on and so forth.

I think Frontier is doing an amazing job in development so far. It's made up for many small additions to many things, so it's difficult to really feel from a pure player point of view. But the development effort to balance all the concerns is incredibly astounding. Now I'm not saying they should ignore us as a community to make what they want, because they also need to keep the lights on. You can't pour your kid a bowl of artistic integrity for breakfast after all.

I definitely understand being annoyed at the development from time to time. Power Play is the first thing I'd gut and rebuild, if I had the choice (50% decay rate? Really???). But the fact is, it doesn't feel like someone isn't doing their job correctly, it feels frontier is doing exactly what they can to balance the impossible.

 

[El Grillo]

Yep, this is it. And as mentioned upthread, we need updates which are for adding depth to current features, not adding more new features which are ultimately shallow and wasted opportunities for proper, satisfying gameplay.

 

[Monk]

Wow, they really do hate polls!

If people don't participate in online discussions then they deserve what they get - the forums are here for a reason and if you don't contribute to the discussion you can't be upset by the end results.

Umm no...participation in the forum is in no way a requirement...nor should it be. These people paid money for the game just like anyone else and their experience should be considered even if they don't happen to share it.

The one FD did for ship transfer times seemed to work, I can't remember if the poll was hosted on this forum though.

I'd say it worked...okay...or as well as it could. It wasn't hosted on the forum. I think they put the link to it on the launcher and in an email.

 

[Scarmax]

Yep, this is it. And as mentioned upthread, we need updates which are for adding depth to current features, not adding more new features which are ultimately shallow and wasted opportunities for proper, satisfying gameplay.

Satisfying gameplay according to who? What standards have you created that you think the rest of us should adhere to? Please don't mistake my quoting you as singling you out, but your comment fits with my long-running point that there are no 2 people here that are going to agree on what makes for "satisfying gameplay." I have over 600 hours in GTA V, purely in single player, because I find that running/driving around Los Santos like a madman, setting innocent bystanders on fire, and blowing up police helicopters with rockets is extremely satisfying, at least in small doses, especially when I roleplay that those digital citizens are the members of a certain other game community that shall remain nameless. *ahem* But anyway, does that mean you or anyone else would find it satisfying? Remotely possible, but probably not, I don't know, but I'm sure as hell not arrogant enough to just ASSUME you would find it as satisfying as I do. The problem here is that even if FD did absolutely EVERYTHING you believe would make the gameplay satisfying, you're going to get at least 1,000 others who would say the game is still a broken piece of excrement.

 

[playfuldreamer]

I see we've come back to the personal sniping phase of the discussion. It's almost like there's a certain time of day when the guttersnipes come out to derail the conversation.

This is why we can't have nice things.

OP, you're not alone. This thread demonstrates just how pervasive the discontent is among a diverse group of players. The silence from FD on these issues has been deafening for a long time and unless or until something changes, I'm not optimistic about the future of the game. We still don't know what's coming in 2.4 (something we already paid for) and there's not even a hint of what's to come beyond. I can tell you this much: I won't be investing anymore money in the development of this game until I've read reviews and reactions to any new content added. They've run out of my good-will and now have to earn my money the old/hard way.

 

[Cobra1984]

The problem I personally had with livestreams and the QA sessions was that the questions were cherry picked

The questions on the last Q&A that Sandro did were NOT cherry picked, he answered everything that was asked.

He kindly answered my question regarding persistent NPCs.

The problem is that he gave the same answer that Michael Brookes gave to the *exact* same question in 2015 - "we'd like to do more"

 

[Monk]

I won't be investing anymore money in the development of this game until I've read reviews and reactions to any new content added. They've run out of my good-will and now have to earn my money the old way.

That's a good thing!

Certainly FDev recognizes that the pre-sales aren't going to keep things going. Myself and others got our LEPs a long time ago now...it is forgotten money.