#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.

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After speaking in private with the OP and other involved community developers, we have all agreed that it was best for the community to bring the websites back up as soon possible. This will be happening simultaneously at 19:00 UTC (where possible) for all the sites.

We have made a commitment to work more closely with the third party developer community to address concerns and support these features which the community use and value on a daily basis.

These ongoing communications will include developers from other third party websites who may be interested, not just those listed in the OP. If you are an active and established third party Elite Dangerous developer, get in touch with community@frontier.co.uk

We all hope that clears things up!

Thanks everyone,

Ed

Thank you Ed and Frontier for listening and giving the community feedback on this.

It was a difficult one that I can see from the many responses.

I'm glad we are seeing steps forward. I have enjoyed Elite since the beta. The only sour note is the attitude of some of the moderators that have disappointed me on this thread.

Having been on this forum for many years I have come to respect the moderators for the difficult job they have to do, today has been a sad day for me...
 
This isn't about caving, this is about ensuring future conversations happen so things like this don't happen again. We made an agreement and discussed things in a considered and calm way. We saw the original post for what it was, an important discussion topic for us to get involved in. We have expressed that we feel it could have been handled differently, and we all agreed that communication is key in future!

I believe you. I'm always [strike]amazed[/strike] dismayed when forum members assign malicious motives to developers, whether they be 1st party or 3rd party developers.
 
Wow.... 1587 posts to a single thread in 7 hours. That has got to be some kind of new forum record.
Seriously though.... FD needs to lend help to their 3rd party developers. They are a large part of what keeps this game alive. I visit Inara several times a day for news, to ready player RP logs, locate modules, look up engineering requirements.... Hell, there is very little I do in game that doesn't involve information from Inara in some way!
 
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I do think you hammer a specific agenda with great zeal. But that is your right. I just put you on temp ignore when it bugs me and take you off after a few hours.

Ozric is clearly agitated, and I can understand. Best to just ignore.

;)

Would rep you if I could!
 
Wow.... 1587 posts to a single thread in 7 hours. That has got to be some kind of new forum record.
Seriously though.... FD needs to lend help to their 3rd party developers. They are a large part of what keeps this game alive. I visit Inara several times a day for news, to ready player RP logs, locate modules, look up engineering requirements.... Hell, there is very little I do in game that doesn't involve information from Inara in some way!

Not sure it quite reaches offline-gate levels...but it is impressive.
 
This isn't about caving, this is about ensuring future conversations happen so things like this don't happen again. We made an agreement and discussed things in a considered and calm way. We saw the original post for what it was, an important discussion topic for us to get involved in. We have expressed that we feel it could have been handled differently, and we all agreed that communication is key in future!

+1 rep. Thanks again Ed and Frontier.
 
I'm very pleased FDev have sorted this out with these guys.

Your Edbb.io has been a lifeline for me this week, out exploring with a borked gal map is kind of immersion breaking . Without this service, I wouldn't have made any progress at all.

Your service is an invaluable asset to the Ed community, I'm relieved to see a compromise has been reached .

Well done all
 
Stern words indeed.... You don't suppose this successful extortion was not informed by the Heat Meta actions, or the like? This extortion was more successful because of the underlying issue. Murder is unpopular, while EDDB is popular. You are just reinforcing the notion that all one has to do to get their way, is to cause drama, and to use our collective voice to bully the Dev's.

another post rep have to give you as no rep left to give in this thread
 
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I would far prefer them have a temporary outage, than have them take their ball and go home and leave whoever comes next to try to spin something up from scratch over the course of weeks or months. Saying that they resorted to "extortion" or "terrorism" by saying "you're making the work we're volunteering to do, unpaid, harder than it needs to be" is ridiculous, and akin to showing up to a soup kitchen, upending the trash cans all over the floor, and yelling at the volunteers "YOU CHOSE TO DO THIS FOR FREE YOU DON'T GET TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT, NOW CLEAN IT UP". The fact that we've somehow filled a thread with more than a hundred pages of people incapable of realizing they're not entitled to other people's time and effort is just icing on this entire ridiculous cake.

Could the developers have gotten the same response by posting on the forums without a direct link from their sites? It's impossible to say, now. Maybe other methods would have been sufficiently efficacious, maybe they would not have been. Ultimately, though, 3rd party developers are not and should not be expected to provide free service, both in terms of hosting and development time, for everyone's benefit. If you disagree with their points and think you can write a replacement for their site without needing to involve FDev, the same information they're using is available for you to consume as well; you're welcome to write a replacement and maintain it if you think that their method of calling attention to their potential burnout is so personally offensive. Alternatively, if you think the service they provide is worthless and unnecessary, why do you even care enough to argue here? If someone's providing a useless and unnecessary extension for something, and then complains about that thing being too hard to interface with, the most effective way of getting them to go away is by ignoring them, not arguing with them. (The fact that the developers use the services in question does indicate that it is not, in fact, useless; but that's another topic entirely.)

The OP's group needed help getting the word out. Instead of asking their loyal users to help, they 'forced' us into supporting them. Anyone dependent on these sites would have a vested interest in calling on FD to help. A plea to the community would have served. But, because data is more popular than murder, they could successfully extort FD. They are 'too big' to fail. We were used to get them attention, instead of being called upon for the support they needed, they used our (as a group) dependence on their sites to get FD's ear. That's exactly what another, less popular, group of commanders did for the same reason: attention.
 
EDDB makes BIG difference to ED gameplay

Just for information/tuppenceworth now...

Near disaster!
Before I discovered EDDB, trade-grinding was the most frustrating thing. Made a slow game slower!
Looking forward to getting it back.
 
That's a nice response Ed, but seriously you might as well just pull the API. It will never be good enough for them. How long before we're back here again? Or have they also made a commitment to respect the views and stance of FD and not take it to the forums again?

Could have been a PM to Ed instead of a public one...
 
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Dear Frontier ; I really love this game , I really put faith in you , however you have to admit that today ( as you stated yourself) 3rd party Tools are part of the backbone of ED. Without them this game would not be as immersive and "community oriented" as today.

I am more than glad you've reached some kind of understanding and agreement with the 3rd party Tools developpers. Cheers.

I know you must have thought that the way those dev voiced their concerns might have been percieved as rough and rude . However it is sometimes needed to go on "strike" in order to be properly heard. .

Cheers to them , and cheers to Frontier. Keep going CMDRs
 
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After speaking in private with the OP and other involved community developers, we have all agreed that it was best for the community to bring the websites back up as soon possible. This will be happening simultaneously at 19:00 UTC (where possible) for all the sites.

We have made a commitment to work more closely with the third party developer community to address concerns and support these features which the community use and value on a daily basis.

These ongoing communications will include developers from other third party websites who may be interested, not just those listed in the OP. If you are an active and established third party Elite Dangerous developer, get in touch with community@frontier.co.uk

We all hope that clears things up!

Thanks everyone,

Ed

*Applause from the mobs of the Colosseum smashes through 138-decibels*
 
After speaking in private with the OP and other involved community developers, we have all agreed that it was best for the community to bring the websites back up as soon possible. This will be happening simultaneously at 19:00 UTC (where possible) for all the sites.

We have made a commitment to work more closely with the third party developer community to address concerns and support these features which the community use and value on a daily basis.

These ongoing communications will include developers from other third party websites who may be interested, not just those listed in the OP. If you are an active and established third party Elite Dangerous developer, get in touch with community@frontier.co.uk

We all hope that clears things up!

Thanks everyone,

Ed

Great stuff.
 
Hi, I'm a developer who mostly uses the Python programming language. I've had experience with python networking in the past (even creating my own chat server) and would like to become a third party for Elite Dangerous and/or EDDN/EDDB. I have no idea where to start however. Help would be appreciated. Thanks :)
 
instant gratification. looks like win, but is it?

I'd consider it a loss for everyone who doesn't want the information contained in third party tools to be separate from the game forever.

FDev know they rely on third parties to do this work for them as it saves them the development effort themselves. So their choice was to either integrate these tools first party (the hard work but best end result for the playerbase option), or to give the third party devs enough semi-official support to keep the work off their own plate (the easier but less ideal option). They did neither of these, they didn't integrate the tools nor make life easier for the devs who are maintaining the tools (the lazy option). Expect it to happen again as soon as FDev think they've said enough (but not done anything, mind, just gave platitudes) that the 3PDs will stop complaining. It's what they do to the rest of us every time a new patch drops and it hasn't stopped coming back to bite them yet.
What makes this different from the usual backlash is that FDev don't hold all the cards here, they've outsourced their power to people who can actually hurt them with it, and thought they could just ignore it like usual. Big mistake, and one that they don't look set to avoid repeating either. They've said they'll move from the lazy option to the easy option rather than the hard but fruitful option, but I suspect as soon as they feel comfortable they'll be right back to business as usual until someone else gets annoyed enough to call them out again.

FDev, please, let's head off this cycle before it starts up again. Pull a small team together. Get them to identify the most heavily used features of the third party websites, be it the ship loadout mockup, the blueprints and materials tracker, whatever, and work on adding those to the game itself. Make the time if you have to. Don't listen to anyone who says it isn't worth the dev time, you do NOT want this to happen again. I've never seen such a division between developer, community and third party addon maker cause such a profound impact on a game before. It's unprecedented, and was entirely set in motion by yourselves, regardless of who carried it out. This isn't a case of "you should've listened" but rather one of "you should've thought of this yourselves 2 years ago"
 
Help 3rd Patry developers

I've spent a small fortune on your game as I've got my son and daughter playing it. All of us have life time upgrades which cost over £100 I regularly buy ship paint kits and other add-ons. However, I also actively use the third-party applications. When playing Elite I always fire up ED Market Connector I also send data to EDDN and EDSM. I do this as it makes me feel more part of the community of Elite Dangerous players. As I use data from these 3rd parties to help plan my mission, what I’m going to trade and who with. Information on system resources and ship equipment. These guys are really doing an excellent job of adding another element to your game and their work and the impact it has on your players (i.e. paying customers) should not be taken for granted. Please, Please start supporting them in the same why they have been supporting your customers. They make all the difference to my playing experience.
 
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