Naah...don't think so. It's not that FD have really commited to anything, have they? Still, I believe them when they say they recognise how much of an asset 3rd party tools are for the community, and that depending on your prefered style of playing, they can become essential. I for one can say that we wouldn't be able to manage our wing without INARA. Let's just see how this plays out - after all, talk is cheap...
#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.
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Naah...don't think so. It's not that FD have really commited to anything, have they? Still, I believe them when they say they recognise how much of an asset 3rd party tools are for the community, and that depending on your prefered style of playing, they can become essential. I for one can say that we wouldn't be able to manage our wing without INARA. Let's just see how this plays out - after all, talk is cheap...
That would have seemed a lot more respectable to many and probably got us to the same end result.
Looks like there's a fair number of folks on here who would like to see not only the 3rd party tools disappear, but every single player who uses them disappear too.
I actually had no idea there were so many tools and sites, and I'm looking forward to finding out if they can breathe some new life into the game for me.
It would have been interesting to see the player stats had this blackout gone ahead - would the numbers plummet without these sites?
I actually had no idea there were so many tools and sites, and I'm looking forward to finding out if they can breathe some new life into the game for me.
It would have been interesting to see the player stats had this blackout gone ahead - would the numbers plummet without these sites?
That doesn't. But, coercing players to support them, or lose access to their efforts is more closely related to extortion. What you suggest is not only what that group did. Separate extortion from the need to gain money. That may make it easier.
I'm not sure that so many players would leave over this issue alone. A lot of us have been playing long enough to know where the good trade routes, rares, combat areas, Powerplay hotspots, etc. are. They make it easier, especially for newer players.
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Honest question, do you think they would have been justified in not making any post and just taking the sites down entirely instead? Because I think that's where we may differ in opinion-- given the options of "I'm done with this, I'm tired of paying server bills, I'm tired of having to redo API integrations every minor patch, I'm cancelling my hosting" and "I'm on the edge of done, but I'm going to give it one last loud shout to see if anyone cares enough to try to force the issue", one of them is obviously preferable to the community at large, especially given the apparent brick wall the developers had run into up to that point. You can certainly choose to feel that they "forced" you into voicing your complaints here, but that's getting into such a semantic side argument that I'm not even sure why you're making it at this point. What line would you draw where it's just a "convincing argument" instead of "forcing you to do it"? The host stays up but every page has a giant banner? Mass emails to users inboxes? Impassioned pleas in a youtube video posted on reddit? It just seems very silly to me to agree with everything else but for some reason, "turning off the site the devs personally own" is OVER THE LINE somehow.
I guess to each their own, really.
But they never asked the community to support them before chucking the toys out of the pram.
Personaly would like to thank FD for responding well to the situation.
As far as the 3rd parties go, I respect their effort they put in. Just think your hijacking of the forum to deliver ultimatums just before a community/publicity driven event crass and pathetic. If you wanted support ask us, don't go waaaaaaahhhhhh. Donated to the only site I use last week, never again after this though.
I'm trying to avoid feeding the trolls here so I won't quote them directly, but for anyone just joining this thread now, please take note that after the outcome of the developers' discussion was posted, the majority of people have moved on and it's mostly just a tiny group who remain in this thread posting over and over to complain about how this all went down. I don't think they are in any way representative of the community's sentiment, they're just loud.
If you take the time to read through the provided history in the first post, it will become clear how things escalated to this point and why today's shutdown happened the way it did. Wishing it had been handled differently is, I think, misunderstanding the history of how this issue has been handled in the past. Other less disruptive avenues were already tried. Nobody enjoyed this and nobody wants it to happen again, but it was necessary.
Calling it "extortion" or "terrorism" or "holding the game hostage" is absurd. Nobody was making demands for money or favors or glory or whatever it is these people are imagining. In fact nobody was making demands at all, community developers were simply pointing out that they maintain their projects for free in their spare time and could not continue to do that without a reasonable level of support from Frontier, in line with the value that these projects add to the game.
If you see that as "holding the game hostage" then you're only proving the point that these projects are in fact important to your enjoyment of the game, which means it's in your own interest for Frontier to support them; if you don't care about any third party tools, then "your game" was not impacted in any way and you have nothing to complain about.
If you take the time to read through the provided history in the first post, it will become clear how things escalated to this point and why today's shutdown happened the way it did. Wishing it had been handled differently is, I think, misunderstanding the history of how this issue has been handled in the past. Other less disruptive avenues were already tried. Nobody enjoyed this and nobody wants it to happen again, but it was necessary.
Calling it "extortion" or "terrorism" or "holding the game hostage" is absurd. Nobody was making demands for money or favors or glory or whatever it is these people are imagining. In fact nobody was making demands at all, community developers were simply pointing out that they maintain their projects for free in their spare time and could not continue to do that without a reasonable level of support from Frontier, in line with the value that these projects add to the game.
If you see that as "holding the game hostage" then you're only proving the point that these projects are in fact important to your enjoyment of the game, which means it's in your own interest for Frontier to support them; if you don't care about any third party tools, then "your game" was not impacted in any way and you have nothing to complain about.
I just want to know what we should ask for ..
If we club together and send EDDB a tenner, presumably I can get the lockdown on my local station removed?
The same way some mechanics, that players may disagree with, are called exploits; it matters little what the word actually means, or how FDev might define it, it only matters that it sounds negative and you keep using it until it sticks.
Well, of course one man's poetic license is another's hyperbole and actually I don't think it hurts to be precise with what one means... I think the reason I object to what you're saying is actually because you seem to be suggesting that an ultimatum is inherently wrong. In my view it may be justified depending on what's been tried before. You say that they could have simply asked FD but the OP seems to suggest that much of that had already happened over a long period. Neither of us really know whether it was justified so let's just leave it shall we and be happy that both sides have resolved the problem to their satisfaction.
Well, in fairness; you are asking him to give your meaningless babble meaning.
Both parties, FDev and the 3rd party developers, came together in a friendly fashion, talked together as friends and came to a friendly solution, both parties are happy with.
No hard feelings; just more love and mutual respect.
All sites are back up and running again.
Still; you are pouring your personal, smelly biowaste out.
As if someone tried to kill your dog.
You are an amusing guy. [yesnod]
I think of more like the "Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come." They wanted us, and FDev, to actually have a taste of what would happen if their volunteer work continued to become more difficult, forcing them sometime in the future to throw in the towel for good and discontinue their tools. I do think their timing was poor and their diplomacy perhaps a bit weak, but I personally believe their intentions were just.
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What, you're trying to take our beloved thread away? That sounds like *extortion* to me! GET 'IM BOYS!
Your whole post is spot-on, but this last para really nails it on the head.
Ozric
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My hat is firmly off, hence my signature, hence my personal opinion. I am allowed one yes? I have not broken any forum rules in expressing my opinion.
Would you prefer the prefix of 3rd party
Anyone who's actually read my posts will know my interaction with the tools and some of the developers from an early stage, but you cannot throw a blanket over them. I have not, and never will, deny the amount of effort that has been put in, or the usefulness of the apps. However I, personally, don't think that the fact we are where we are only happened by people taking it upon themselves originally without permission (and sometimes expressly against permission) of FD, should be forgotten.
So yes we're here, FD are going to communicate more with the developers, and the next time a group of them don't think there's enough communication... Well we'll just have to see. A toned down approach would suit me
NDA's? Can't see it myself.A little confused. Who here has been coerced? The players? Me? You? Everyone? Just participants in this thread who supported the action? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?
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