What a joke. Everyone should now understand that the game engine can't even come close to handling this type of 'event'

[VR Murgle]

Elite's P2P stability rests on the player's network configuration to a great extent (router, firewall and in-game network options). I didn't have any issues because I did my homework time ago. You can find how to set up your system properly if you investigate a little.

The problem is that FD is not willing to share clearly and openly how to configure your network for Elite to work seamlessly. And I understand why. Most people would just freak out if they read they need to customize their router settings, if they read about concepts like ports, UDP and firewall exceptions. And many of them would simply screw it so badly they would end up losing their internet connection altogether, blaming FD for their config guidelines, of course. FD would be dealing with hundreds of CS tickets for that reason alone.

Every single MP game would benefit from such guidelines, but I don't know a single developer that provides open and clear steps on how to tweak your system. They simply don't trust the majority of their players would be willing / able to follow mildly complex instructions like that.

I've played a lot of MMO's,and before that I even ran my own little "Dungeon Siege" server and I've never had to mess with my network settings to get a stable connection. Fact of the matter is that the P2P protocol was never meant to created stable lasting connections, it was meant to ensure a steady stream of data by switching between available connections. As far as the P2P protocol is concerned it's not important where the data comes from as long as all the packets arrive at their destination.

Unfortunately, with multi player, it does matter where that data comes from and that is where it all breaks down. The architecture they've chosen is unsuitable and while it can work, it is going to be bloody hard to get it to work reliably if that is even possible. From what I've heard every game that's using P2P is have serious problems with their multi-player and I can't help but wonder if it really is cheaper to run.

Of course if FD were to switch to a sever-client based networking model it might be difficult, if not impossible, to maintain Solo and Private groups so...

- - - Updated - - -

They are also pay to win.

Er, some of them are, quite a lot of them are not and I have actually played quite a few of the better ones.

 

[xondk]

If you want to encounter random commanders P2P works very well. Where P2P in Elite starts to fall down is when you start wanting to organise events and get into an instance with a specific set of commanders. That's often challenging and everyone who's participated in a player group knows the joys of "anchoring" people into instances etc where an hour or two has to be spent before the event can take place getting everyone into the right instance to play. Virtually all player groups complain about this.

Never claimed it was perfect, and as I pointed out it many times is related to a players connection, if an internet connection is set up properly, P2P itself should not have issues, but I can easily tell you many people do not have it properly set up.

Oh dear. You are the internet equivalent of a nobleman saying "I don't see anything wrong" while sitting in a castle, waited on hand and foot. The peasants toil away with their 300+ms ping because things like distance and time exist.

There's a reason servers are better than P2P: Not everyone lives in the USA or UK! Simple, really! Other countries can have much higher ping times, such as Australia - where we are often outright denied connection to an instance because of FD's system. Even outright P2P without FD's silly matchbreaking server would be an improvement at this stage.

No I'm fairly certain I said look at your own connection, Never stated it was perfect to please stop running along the train of thought that is not related to what I wrote.

You are right, not everyone does, but again, this would not be a problem simply solved by having a server.
But people are eager to blame frontier without first checking to see if its their connection that is having problems, and I have fixed more then enough issues, basic router, lack of forwarding or upnp, or computer issues interfering with games to know that the average user often have problems that are caused on their end.

That, is what I am saying, so yeah, i'm not an internet 'nobel' in any way shape or form, stop getting offended by someone trying to help people understand the actual problem and putting words in my mouth that aren't there, including apparently not reading anything but the line where I indicate its going well for me and many others, so 'maybe' it could be related to your end? and yes, if the latency is too high, it will often deny connections, which is very sensible because it would be unplayable?

 

[Sterlino]

They are also pay to win.

to win what ?

 

[dreampage]

It's the game design, not the game engine. The game engine is fine. But there can't be a mass event organized when only a handful of players can be in the same instance. There can't be meaningful events if the only thing most people can do is kill each other. The whole event was about this: "Here's a very important character in this and this system. Do what you want." What did anyone expect?

 

[Jaiotu]

It's the game design, not the game engine. The game engine is fine. But there can't be a mass event organized when only a handful of players can be in the same instance. There can't be meaningful events if the only thing most people can do is kill each other. The whole event was about this: "Here's a very important character in this and this system. Do what you want." What did anyone expect?

We didn't even have the opportunity to kill each other. Because Elite: Dangerous favors matchmaking based on people in your Friends List each side is more likely to wind up in an instance with their allies than they are against foes.

EDIT: What they need is balanced matchmaking so you end up in instances with roughly equal numbers of friends and foes ... and the only way to do that is to let us choose a faction (like you do in a CZ) but let us choose it outside of a Conflict Zone and let the faction membership persist from instance to instance.

 

[babelfisch]

to win what ?

Irrelevant.

 

[Kaltern]

Are you kidding me? People here giving the spiel about 'well I had no problems, therefore it must be you' - even as I watched streams from certain individuals like DJTruth, who's game CRASHED because of the issues, the crew having multiple disconnections, players in so many different instances is was just laughable, heatsinks firing by themselves, and other issues I can't be bothered to list here.

I too have a top end VR system, and while I didn't take any part in whatever last night was supposed to be, I definitely get crashes and other game-related issues. And I guarantee my system is better than some of you saying you had no issues. When you understand what P2P is, and how it works, and why instancing is a problem, come back and rejoin the conversation. Until then, you should probably shush as you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

[dreampage]

We didn't even have the opportunity to kill each other. Because Elite: Dangerous favors matchmaking based on people in your Friends List each side is more likely to wind up in an instance with their allies than they are against foes.

EDIT: What they need is balanced matchmaking so you end up in instances with roughly equal numbers of friends and foes ... and the only way to do that is to let us choose a faction (like you do in a CZ) but let us choose it outside of a Conflict Zone and let the faction membership persist from instance to instance.

If you go to Open then you're open to kill by anyone. Especially if there are many people and not many on your friends list. Either way, this event was nothing more than giving players a target to shoot at. I'm sure Mr. Wagar will write a great book but technically as a game event this was pointless.

 

[Henri]

what is really missing is a button to choose a side at the beginning of the event, a side which you can not change willie nilly.
a friend or foe indicator, red or green on the radar

locking of solar systems....make it so that the 4 nav beacons at checkpoints draw any ships jumping into the system to the checkpoint as was the original design for systems at war or in lockdown. this creates bottlenecks which have to be fought over. They can be manned by hostile or friendly npc's which can be helped by players or fought by players, creating impromptu pvp warzones. instancing becomes less relevant if peeps have to "liberate" these instead of escorting one ship.

when a battle is won have the opfor destroy the nav beacons in order to let the vip jump through normally.

Use server messaging to let the community know where the next battle has to take place.

just some ideas..

 

[Jaiotu]

When you understand what P2P is, and how it works, and why ...

I'm still trying to get my ship fully outfit for P2P to be honest. Still have a lot of Engineers to unlock before I can really take on another Commander.

... Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

 

[Y2K]

Never had any problems my end even with VR running and streaming to twitch with discord open. Everything ran smoothly, must be the potato you're playing the game on.

^ this. I run ED in VR for hours at a time with zero problems.

 

[Kaltern]

I'm still trying to get my ship fully outfit for P2P to be honest. Still have a lot of Engineers to unlock before I can really take on another Commander.

... Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

Genuinely made me LOL. I was about to ask if you were really being serious.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

what is really missing is a button to choose a side at the beginning of the event, a side which you can not change willie nilly.
a friend or foe indicator, red or green on the radar

locking of solar systems....make it so that the 4 nav beacons at checkpoints draw any ships jumping into the system to the checkpoint as was the original design for systems at war or in lockdown. this creates bottlenecks which have to be fought over. They can be manned by hostile or friendly npc's which can be helped by players or fought by players, creating impromptu pvp warzones. instancing becomes less relevant if peeps have to "liberate" these instead of escorting one ship.

when a battle is won have the opfor destroy the nav beacons in order to let the vip jump through normally.

Use server messaging to let the community know where the next battle has to take place.

just some ideas..

Good ideas.

 

[Quester91]

what is really missing is a button to choose a side at the beginning of the event, a side which you can not change willie nilly.
a friend or foe indicator, red or green on the radar

locking of solar systems....make it so that the 4 nav beacons at checkpoints draw any ships jumping into the system to the checkpoint as was the original design for systems at war or in lockdown. this creates bottlenecks which have to be fought over. They can be manned by hostile or friendly npc's which can be helped by players or fought by players, creating impromptu pvp warzones. instancing becomes less relevant if peeps have to "liberate" these instead of escorting one ship.

when a battle is won have the opfor destroy the nav beacons in order to let the vip jump through normally.

Use server messaging to let the community know where the next battle has to take place.

just some ideas..

That'd be really great, have some rep.

I doubt it'll ever be implemented, but still.

 

[tagos]

My setup is above default. Mine and others problems materialised with 2.3. Every other MMO continues to work fine. This game is on Frontier to resolve.

- - - Updated - - -

They are also pay to win.

And so they make sure people can actually play.

 

[WreckWren]

Never claimed it was perfect, and as I pointed out it many times is related to a players connection, if an internet connection is set up properly, P2P itself should not have issues, but I can easily tell you many people do not have it properly set up.



No I'm fairly certain I said look at your own connection, Never stated it was perfect to please stop running along the train of thought that is not related to what I wrote.

You are right, not everyone does, but again, this would not be a problem simply solved by having a server.
But people are eager to blame frontier without first checking to see if its their connection that is having problems, and I have fixed more then enough issues, basic router, lack of forwarding or upnp, or computer issues interfering with games to know that the average user often have problems that are caused on their end.

That, is what I am saying, so yeah, i'm not an internet 'nobel' in any way shape or form, stop getting offended by someone trying to help people understand the actual problem and putting words in my mouth that aren't there, including apparently not reading anything but the line where I indicate its going well for me and many others, so 'maybe' it could be related to your end? and yes, if the latency is too high, it will often deny connections, which is very sensible because it would be unplayable?

You're completely incorrect, and delusional. All of this would be fixed by a semi-competent dev team. This is a surmountable problem, despite what you may believe. You are wrong.

 

[Gully Foyle]

You're completely incorrect, and delusional. All of this would be fixed by a semi-competent dev team. This is a surmountable problem, despite what you may believe. You are wrong.

Actually, that's pretty close to what happens.

If everyone had uPnP turned on it would help a lot.

With P2P the instance is only as good as the lowest quality member of the instance. That's the fatal flaw.
Here's just a tiny list of some common problems:
ISP throttles your bandwidth.
Playing with a potato for a computer.
Playing with an infected or compromised computer.
Poor latency due to an ISP's budget backbone connection.
Overloaded system tray activity hogging resources.
Folks who with the router settings without a clue of what they are doing.
Using WiFi that's being leached by a neighbor.
Obsolete network equipment.

I deal with these problems every time I help someone fix their comp.

You want to pay a subscription to FD for a central server?
I sure don't.

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My setup is above default. Mine and others problems materialised with 2.3. Every other MMO continues to work fine. This game is on Frontier to resolve.

- - - Updated - - -



And so they make sure people can actually play.

Are those other games on central servers?

The number of players having zero problems with the game out number those having issues. This is proof that its probably not FD's fault at all.
I can leave my CMDR sitting in the ship in-game for days, even since the update.
I also enjoy one of the most stable and strong telecom networks being in Canada with Bell.
I know how good it is because I build it for a living and know my competition.

 

[Sergei Pavlov]

Are you kidding me? People here giving the spiel about 'well I had no problems, therefore it must be you' - even as I watched streams from certain individuals like DJTruth, who's game CRASHED because of the issues, the crew having multiple disconnections, players in so many different instances is was just laughable, heatsinks firing by themselves, and other issues I can't be bothered to list here.

I too have a top end VR system, and while I didn't take any part in whatever last night was supposed to be, I definitely get crashes and other game-related issues. And I guarantee my system is better than some of you saying you had no issues. When you understand what P2P is, and how it works, and why instancing is a problem, come back and rejoin the conversation. Until then, you should probably shush as you don't really know what you're talking about.

I play with friends all the time. They have issues all the time. I have issues some times. But you know the difference their issues and mine? When I have them, Frontier releases a tweet saying something went wrong with their servers. My friends... they have issues when the servers are working perfectly...

And that summarizes my point. Stop complaining and do what you can to get your system ready.

And guys, stop pretending networks should work like this and that. Time and space are real physical limitations, and instant unimpeded communication across thousands of kilometers is NOT a thing. Many of you assume we have some kind of Star Wars level of technology in 2017, and we don't.

 

[ChiefRedCloud]

Will all future 'events' be equally limited by the shortcomings of the game engine?

I have asked this else where it what is the official network cap for multiplay? If there is one then perhaps more fore thought might be given to prior sign ups and a limitation. You see the problem is not so much 700 pilots being online at once (which is a LOT to me) but having 700 pilots in close proximity to each other at one time. Sort of like the LA freeway at quoting time.

Never had any problems my end even with VR running and streaming to twitch with discord open. Everything ran smoothly, must be the potato you're playing the game on.

The engine's fine, very good in fact. They just chose to go with instanced p2p networking to avoid having to use a subscription model. Unfortunately it does mean that large ingame events will never work very well.

It seems that Frontier's vision of what the game actually is has somewhat shifted since the early design decisions were made. Maybe they would have done things differently in hindsight. Of course, if their vision back then was closer to the direction it's gradually heading now, the game may never have been funded in the first place.

Each connection is different depending on the traffic and how it all comes together. Does it sound like I know what I am talking about? Well, maybe ... maybe not.

As for the engines capability towards multiplay, I have no clue but I suspect all engines have their limits.

Chief

 

[Gully Foyle]

i play with friends all the time. They have issues all the time. I have issues some times. But you know the difference their issues and mine? When i have them, frontier releases a tweet saying something went wrong with their servers. My friends... They have issues when the servers are working perfectly...

And that summarizes my point. Stop complaining and do what you can to get your system ready.

And guys, stop pretending networks should work like this and that. Time and space are real physical limitations, and instant unimpeded communication across thousands of kilometers is not a thing. Many of you assume we have some kind of star wars level of technology in 2017, and we don't.

I beg to differ.

The worldwide fiber network does a pretty good job. It all depends on where and how you are connected to it.

Я предполагаю, что эти проблемы связаны с тем, что ваши друзья живут в России.